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re: Florida returns 17 of 22 starters next year
Posted on 1/10/18 at 8:22 am to StrawsDrawnAtRandom
Posted on 1/10/18 at 8:22 am to StrawsDrawnAtRandom
Straw... less than a year ago, you were so in love with McElwain we though you might be married to him.
So forgive me for thinking that you are being a bit overly optimistic.
So forgive me for thinking that you are being a bit overly optimistic.
2
Posted on 1/10/18 at 8:33 am to slayerxing
Yes but to be fair.
I was as down on Mac as TJ.
So not like my optimism on here has been blind. I just see more good than most this year, because I think coaching solves most of our problems we've had.
Do we need more blue chips to win a title? Absolutely.
But the things we sucked at...were developed things that good coaches get out of their players. Tackling, spotting blitz's, route running. Our players were basically out there winging it because the staff was just bad.
So the improved staff says we can get decent first year results, because a lot of our issues are fixable.
I was as down on Mac as TJ.
So not like my optimism on here has been blind. I just see more good than most this year, because I think coaching solves most of our problems we've had.
Do we need more blue chips to win a title? Absolutely.
But the things we sucked at...were developed things that good coaches get out of their players. Tackling, spotting blitz's, route running. Our players were basically out there winging it because the staff was just bad.
So the improved staff says we can get decent first year results, because a lot of our issues are fixable.
Posted on 1/10/18 at 9:07 am to Gatorbait2008
Our issues have been correctable since 2013.
According to most posters, we have talent, just not coaching and that a good coach will fix it all right away.
I would actually argue that lack of talent is a bigger issue than most are willing to admit. We will see if the draft bears that out over the next couple of years. Maybe I'm wrong.
According to most posters, we have talent, just not coaching and that a good coach will fix it all right away.
I would actually argue that lack of talent is a bigger issue than most are willing to admit. We will see if the draft bears that out over the next couple of years. Maybe I'm wrong.
Posted on 1/10/18 at 9:31 am to slayerxing
quote:
Our issues have been correctable since 2013.
According to most posters, we have talent, just not coaching and that a good coach will fix it all right away.
I would actually argue that lack of talent is a bigger issue than most are willing to admit. We will see if the draft bears that out over the next couple of years. Maybe I'm wrong.
UF is not on the talent level of the playoff teams. Who from the Gators would even start for one of those 4 teams? Mullen's goal is to have players who would start on the 3 other playoff teams.
That said UF is not completely talentless. There are plenty of players to work with and develop.
2013 UF roster
There are a shite ton of NFL players on that roster. 20 plus. They went 4-8.
2017 UF roster
I also think that there will be a good number of NFL players from this roster. Especially after UF has an actual professional S&C coach.
I think there are more offensive playmakers on the 2018 roster than 2011 and 2015.
Looking at the roster for 2017 the worst position groups from a talent on the field perspective:
LB
QB
TE
S
OL
WR
DT
CB
DE
RB
The first group is dogshit. Not a lot of NFL talent. Soft mentally, technically, and physically. Good news is the staff is proven at development in these areas.
The second group is where I expect most of the NFL players to come from. These are the players to build upon for future success.
This post was edited on 1/10/18 at 9:46 am
Posted on 1/10/18 at 9:49 am to slayerxing
I agree and disagree.
Talent is certainly missing in certain areas. LB, DT, TE, and QB.
As for QB, I stand by the argument that a freshman can play and succeed in CFB now. Especially with a good QB coach.
As for new system. Mullen's system is far, far less complex than Nuss's pro style. So adjusting to it won't be quite so difficult.
Never said it's all fixed immediately. But our schedule isn't that strong. We have the same level of talent as every opponent but three(FSU, LSU, and Georgia). LSU has coaching issues and FSU is going through the same thing we are, but I'd argue we have a much better head coach now as well.
The draft in the past has shown we have had talent, but our coaching sucks. Especially at QB. Sucks to see how many kids can get in the NFL but don't look good here.
We shall see. I just see a lot of good right now. After years of bad staff's, I may be seeing too green. But generally I don't go to far in the homer department as my past post show. shite I was banned from 24/7 when Mac's first staff was assembled for going off on everyone about how inexperienced and lackluster it was
Still won't let me back on ;/
Talent is certainly missing in certain areas. LB, DT, TE, and QB.
As for QB, I stand by the argument that a freshman can play and succeed in CFB now. Especially with a good QB coach.
As for new system. Mullen's system is far, far less complex than Nuss's pro style. So adjusting to it won't be quite so difficult.
Never said it's all fixed immediately. But our schedule isn't that strong. We have the same level of talent as every opponent but three(FSU, LSU, and Georgia). LSU has coaching issues and FSU is going through the same thing we are, but I'd argue we have a much better head coach now as well.
The draft in the past has shown we have had talent, but our coaching sucks. Especially at QB. Sucks to see how many kids can get in the NFL but don't look good here.
We shall see. I just see a lot of good right now. After years of bad staff's, I may be seeing too green. But generally I don't go to far in the homer department as my past post show. shite I was banned from 24/7 when Mac's first staff was assembled for going off on everyone about how inexperienced and lackluster it was
Still won't let me back on ;/
Posted on 1/10/18 at 11:34 am to slayerxing
quote:
Straw... less than a year ago, you were so in love with McElwain we though you might be married to him.
So forgive me for thinking that you are being a bit overly optimistic.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genetic_fallacy
I'm not being optimistic, I'm actually being the opposite. You guys are talking about championship level talent and recruiting classes and I'm saying that he can easily win 10 games next year based on the schedule.
McElwain took a 4 - 8 team and went 10 - 4 with a harder schedule than we have next year, I see no reason why Mullen can't.
He may have had an 'amazing' defense, but he had nothing on offense. He had Treon fricking Harris, no kicker, no offensive line and one upperclass running back with maybe one threat at WR and a bad scheme and made 10 wins.
I think a guy who actually has a QB or two with a much better stable of RBs, a better offensive line and arguably one of the best WR corps we've had in years can replicate what McElwain did -- and honestly anything less would be a failure in my eyes.
We recruit/have more talent and resources than:
Vanderbilt, Kentucky, Tennessee, MSU, SC, Missouri, CSU, Idaho, Charleston Southern.
That's 9 teams we should beat next year.
Then we have LSU (MSU beat the frick out of LSU last year with much less talent), FSU (we literally gave the game away) and UGA (our only ''should'' lose of next year).
There is literally no reason outside of awful coaching if we go 6 - 6 next year or anything less than 9.
Posted on 1/10/18 at 2:05 pm to BloodSweat&Beers
I think we get Harris back at safety right? I think he is a future NFL player. Not elite, but kid can hit.
Oline had a terrible S&C program but there is decently talent. Taylor, Ivey, Haggie are good players. Not elite once again, but I would bet all three get drafted when they leave UF as well.
QB obviously sucks. Hoping for Jones to save us there.
TE is bad. But their coach was...wow. We did get a really good freshman TE for the future.
LB is straight bad. Not a single player is "UF" level if compared to Spurrier and Meyer's teams. Reese is a good kid and okay, but slow as shite. The rest are deeply flawed. Really need Quay to come here ;/
Oline had a terrible S&C program but there is decently talent. Taylor, Ivey, Haggie are good players. Not elite once again, but I would bet all three get drafted when they leave UF as well.
QB obviously sucks. Hoping for Jones to save us there.
TE is bad. But their coach was...wow. We did get a really good freshman TE for the future.
LB is straight bad. Not a single player is "UF" level if compared to Spurrier and Meyer's teams. Reese is a good kid and okay, but slow as shite. The rest are deeply flawed. Really need Quay to come here ;/
Posted on 1/10/18 at 7:30 pm to StrawsDrawnAtRandom
quote:
McElwain took a 4 - 8 team and went 10 - 4 with a harder schedule than we have next year, I see no reason why Mullen can't. He may have had an 'amazing' defense, but he had nothing on offense. He had Treon fricking Harris, no kicker, no offensive line and one upperclass running back with maybe one threat at WR and a bad scheme and made 10 wins.
Didn’t we go 7-5 in Muschamps last year ? Not 4-8 was his 3rd year . In Macs first year he had Grier for the first 6 games and won them all then went 4-4 with Harris as the starter . This year we will have a true freshmen starting or a guy you don’t even think should be on the team . Do you still think we win 10 games with Franks starting ? What QB are you expecting to win us 10 games ?
So your saying that if we win less then 9 games next year that the coaching staff is awful ?
Posted on 1/10/18 at 7:45 pm to Gatorbait2008
We should finish about 8-4 and second or 3rd in the east . The last 2 coaches killed the talent on this team . Muschamp killed the talent on offense and Mac killed the talent on defense. Good news is that we still have more talent then Mullen has had at State . It will come down to Mullen coaching up a QB this year and having that QB fit his system. We have enough play makers on offense to score some points . I am interested to see who the starting QB will be .
Posted on 1/10/18 at 8:19 pm to tjv305
quote:
Didn’t we go 7-5 in Muschamps last year ? Not 4-8 was his 3rd year
We could say 11 - 13 over the past two years and say 19 - 8, too. He took a losing program and turned it into a winning program as far as the W/L column is concerned.
quote:
This year we will have a true freshmen starting or a guy you don’t even think should be on the team . Do you still think we win 10 games with Franks starting ? What QB are you expecting to win us 10 games ?
Uh, Fromm is a true freshman.
Tua is a true freshman. Put in the right conditions true freshmen have proven to be pretty good.
I'm gonna say something that's gonna sound crazy, but: If we have the athletes at WR like I think we're going to have (Cleveland, Toney, Van Jefferson and Grimes), let's not even talk about the talent coming in from HS -- Franks might actually be a pretty good QB to have for his arm alone. All he'd need to do is heave it most of the time and we'd get lucky a few times in a game because our WRs bailed him out.
quote:
So your saying that if we win less then 9 games next year that the coaching staff is awful ?
I am. There's no reason to drop games to teams that could barely handle us with 20+ scholarship players out.
LSU beat us by a failed extra point, A&M beat us by two points and SC beat us by 8 in spite of giving up the ball 4 times. FSU had 24 points gift-wrapped to them. The only two games where we fell apart were Georgia and Mizzou, and Mizzou just got motherfricking Dooley as an OC.
If they can barely handle us at that level, there's nothing to say that we won't have:
1. A functioning offense with practically the exact same team taking the field.
2. A functioning defense with practically the exact same team taking the field.
We literally lost our best players at every skill position on offense and our captains on defense and our team was still in the thick of it.
If we have an 8 win season with almost the entire team coming back, it's absolutely a failure.
Posted on 1/10/18 at 10:33 pm to tjv305
He may be, I'm not.
First years can be hit or miss. Doesn't define the staff.
I just think we have an easy schedule that we can be in most games besides Georgia. Also Jefferson is cleared and Grimes should be too. Jefferson is already proven in the SEC as a damn good player. Should really help Jones settle into the QB position and the strong run game will help as well.
First years can be hit or miss. Doesn't define the staff.
I just think we have an easy schedule that we can be in most games besides Georgia. Also Jefferson is cleared and Grimes should be too. Jefferson is already proven in the SEC as a damn good player. Should really help Jones settle into the QB position and the strong run game will help as well.
Posted on 1/11/18 at 11:27 am to Gatorbait2008
UF had an easy schedule this year and still missed a bowl game.
It doesn't matter how easy your schedule is if your team is garbage.
Mac inherited a 7-5 team, that was better than their record indicated. He improved that record to 10-4, which is respectable.
Mullen is inheriting a team that went 4-7. I expect significant improvement, but you don't go from 4 wins to 9 or 10 most of the time. I'm thinking 7 or 8 max unless the freshman QB is the next big thing in CFB.
It doesn't matter how easy your schedule is if your team is garbage.
Mac inherited a 7-5 team, that was better than their record indicated. He improved that record to 10-4, which is respectable.
Mullen is inheriting a team that went 4-7. I expect significant improvement, but you don't go from 4 wins to 9 or 10 most of the time. I'm thinking 7 or 8 max unless the freshman QB is the next big thing in CFB.
Posted on 1/11/18 at 7:57 pm to StrawsDrawnAtRandom
I agree that Mac did a better job winning the Muschamp. You were just trying to give him a lot more credit for his first year then he deserves.
Fromm was a game manager and had enough talent around him that he won because of the players around him . I am not shocked that you expect crazy results when you did the same thing last year .
Fromm was a game manager and had enough talent around him that he won because of the players around him . I am not shocked that you expect crazy results when you did the same thing last year .
Posted on 1/11/18 at 8:24 pm to slayerxing
quote:
Mac inherited a 7-5 team, that was better than their record indicated. He improved that record to 10-4, which is respectable.
Mullen is inheriting a team that went 4-7. I expect significant improvement, but you don't go from 4 wins to 9 or 10 most of the time. I'm thinking 7 or 8 max unless the freshman QB is the next big thing in CFB.
If this team was healthy, it goes 7-5 or 8-4. Which is what you aren't grasping here. You are just looking at the record, and not the causation. Team collapsed. Had more players out than any team in FBS(yes). That's with maybe the worst coaching staff in the SEC(or Tenn). Max 8 is simply low selling. Max is a big term, to say it's only possible at best to get that is ridiculous tbh. It's LIKELY we get 8, but to claim no possible way of getting ten with that many returning, a better staff, and the schedule is a little much.
Like I said you take under 8 wins. I'll take over. See who wins. Fair deal?
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