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The more I research it, the more I like the Chaney hire
Posted on 12/15/15 at 11:18 am
Posted on 12/15/15 at 11:18 am
It wasn't the sexy hire, but it was the right hire. I think he will do well here. Arkansas fans be damned.
4
Posted on 12/15/15 at 12:21 pm to HinesvilleThrill
He achieved the first goal, sign Eason!
Posted on 12/15/15 at 12:22 pm to HinesvilleThrill
I agree, just wish he wasn't so god damn fat.
Posted on 12/15/15 at 12:25 pm to HinesvilleThrill
quote:
it was the right hire. I think he will do well here
Not trying to be antagonistic, but what have you read that makes you feel that way?
Posted on 12/15/15 at 12:25 pm to Fats
quote:
I agree, just wish he wasn't so god damn fat.
Fats v OC Fat frick in the octagon. 5 pts waffle house. Next week. Do it.
Posted on 12/15/15 at 12:26 pm to FinleyStreet
quote:
Fats v OC Fat frick in the octagon. 5 pts waffle house. Next week. Do it.
Pretty sure Cheney is at least double my body weight and I'm guessing he could throw down 5x the amount of Waffle House I could.
Posted on 12/15/15 at 12:56 pm to WG_Dawg
When Jim Chaney was announced, I was like most reasonable Dawg fans and knew of his time in the SEC, but didn't have much knowledge about him as a coach. I then saw some real positive remarks made about him from various sources, including the moderators on this board, and a whole lot of negative comments made by opposing fans. Some of the statistics thrown out by opposing fans frankly worried me. So I decided to spend a little time today doing some research on Jim Chaney.
When evaluating a new Coordinator hire, I like to first look at how their offense and QBs performed compared to before and after their arrival. In other words, did he make his QB and offense better with his coaching and were others able to do the same after he left. A good sign of a good coach is usually that he and his unit perform better than they did under the previous coach and when they leave, the unit performs worse under the new coach.
I prefer looking at this comparison than simple rankings because a great coach can show tremendous improvement in his unit from the previous coach and still not be high in the national rankings for a variety of reasons. With all that said, lets begin:
Way back in 1996, Purdue scored 17.6 pts/game, they gained around 366 yds/game, and had a TD/Int ratio of 15:17. In Chaney's first year as OC in 1997, Purdue scored 33pts/game, gained around 46 yds/game, and had a TD/Int ratio of 22:17. Significant improvement would be an understatement. A further review reveals in 1996, Billy Dicken was their 3rd string QB and attempted approximately 80 passes, or around 2-3 games worth. His completion percentage was 49.4% and his TD:INT was 1:4 with a QB rating of 97.3. He started the monster's share of 1997 where his completion percentage improved to 55%, his TD:INT improved to 21:16, and his QB rating moved to 128.9.
Chaney worked primarily with 2 QBs over the long term at Purdue, both of whom we are all familiar with - Drew Brees and Kyle Orton. Drew Brees played sparingly his freshmen year, throwing for only 232 yards, no TDs, 1 Int, and an 84.9 QBR. Over the following three years, Brees never completed below 60%, threw less than 25 TDs with a 2:1 TD:Int ration, and never had a QBR below 130. Orton's career was surprisingly similar. His freshmen year, Orton attempted a little over 200 passes, with a completion percentage under 50%, a 4:7 TD:Int ratio and a QB rating of 92. The next three seasons, he never completed less than 60% of his passes, had somewhat modest TD:Int ratios until his 31:5 season his senior year, and never had a QB rating below 127. There were 3 years where one of these 2 QBs weren't the primary snap getter. One was the previously discussed first year on campus. The second was a significant dip in 2001, Kyle Orton's freshmen year, where the PPG plummeted to 20, the TD/Int, and QBR were all bad with Brandon Hance leading the way for the most part. The other season was his last at Purdue, 2005. Notably, the offense still scored 30ppg, gained 420 yards a game, and Brandon Kirsch as a first year starter completed 59.1% for a QBR of 118.4. The year after Chaney left, the offense dropped to 26 ppg.
All in all, you can't really dispute that Chaney and the offense made Purdue drastically better, produced NFL caliber QBs at a program that has never come close to matching that sort of talent or success before or after his tenure, and helped those QBs develop from traditionally shaky starts as freshmen into high quality QBs in a relatively quick time frame. The only time Purdue has come close to a similar QB situation was with Curtis Painter, who was recruited and signed by Chaney in the first place.
Now let's move to his Tennessee days. In 2008, Fulmer's last year, Jonathan Crompton as a Junior completed 51.5 percent of his passes for a 4:5 TD ratio and a 98.1 QBR. The offense was awful averaging 17.3ppg. In Chaney's first year in 2009, the PPG improved to 29.3, Compton completed 58.3% for a TD:INT ratio of 27:13 and a QBR of 136. Once again, it's tough to argue that both his unit and his QB did anything but improve tremendously when Chaney arrived in town. In the following three years, Chaney was a bright spot for a bad Tennessee program. Despite having a notoriously difficult QB to tutor in Tyler Bray, his career ended up with an average completion percentage of 58%, his TD:INT was 69:28, and his QBR was 145. Further, despite the struggles, Chaney's offense averaged 36.2 pts in his final season.
The year after Chaney, in Butch Jones' first year, the offense regressed to 23.8 ppt, a loss of 2 TDs per game. Once again, Chaney drastically improved the offense over his predecessor, and also developed his QB, during his time at UT. Further, the offense regressed after he left.
Next up is Chaney's time at Arkansas. In 2012, the year before Chaney, Arkansas' running game was surprisingly poor, but it's passing game was pretty good under Senior Tyler Wilson. The offense scored 23.5ppg, with Wilson completing 62.1% of his passes for a 21:13 TD:INT and a QBR of 143.8. The run game, as noted, was the sore spot averaging only 118 yds/game and 3.9 yds/rush. Also in 2012, Brandon Allen completed passes in a very limited role at a 42.9% clip with a TD:INT of 1:3 and a QBR of 69.2. For the first time in Chaney's career, the offense went in reverse by a slight amount in regards to PPG after he took over. With a new starter Brandon Allen, the offense scored only 20.7 ppg. Brandon Allen himself showed improvement, throwing for a positive TD:INT at 13:10 and improving his QBR to 109. The running game showed marked improvement, improving to 209 yds/game and a 5.3 yds/rush average. Chaney's second year showed marked improvement overall. The offense scored 31.9 ppg, Brandon Allen had a 20:5 TD:INT ratio and a QBR of 129.2. The running game continued its marked improvement at 218 yds/game and a 5.1 avg.
After he left in 2015, Dan Enos showed some improvement as well. With Brandon Allen as a senior, the offense improved a few points to 35.2 ppg, with Allen throwing for a 29:7 TD:INT and a 165 QBR.
Pittsburgh is a tough measure, as is Arkansas to a lesser degree, just because he didn't spend long there. The ppg decreased from 31.2 to 28.2 under Chaney. The ypg decreased by approximately 50 from the year before under Chaney. These are skewed mostly by the loss of their big time RB after 8 carries in the first game. The replacement running back gained 700 yds less from scrimmage than their workhorse did the year before and scored 16 less TDs. That is right around the 50 yards a game they lost and far more than the 3 ppg they decreased in scoring. Another impressive aspect of his time at Pitt is that he turned former UT QB Nate Peterman into a solid QB in one year. Peterman completed 61.6% of his passes, for a 19:5 TD:INT and a QBR of 141.5.
When evaluating a new Coordinator hire, I like to first look at how their offense and QBs performed compared to before and after their arrival. In other words, did he make his QB and offense better with his coaching and were others able to do the same after he left. A good sign of a good coach is usually that he and his unit perform better than they did under the previous coach and when they leave, the unit performs worse under the new coach.
I prefer looking at this comparison than simple rankings because a great coach can show tremendous improvement in his unit from the previous coach and still not be high in the national rankings for a variety of reasons. With all that said, lets begin:
Way back in 1996, Purdue scored 17.6 pts/game, they gained around 366 yds/game, and had a TD/Int ratio of 15:17. In Chaney's first year as OC in 1997, Purdue scored 33pts/game, gained around 46 yds/game, and had a TD/Int ratio of 22:17. Significant improvement would be an understatement. A further review reveals in 1996, Billy Dicken was their 3rd string QB and attempted approximately 80 passes, or around 2-3 games worth. His completion percentage was 49.4% and his TD:INT was 1:4 with a QB rating of 97.3. He started the monster's share of 1997 where his completion percentage improved to 55%, his TD:INT improved to 21:16, and his QB rating moved to 128.9.
Chaney worked primarily with 2 QBs over the long term at Purdue, both of whom we are all familiar with - Drew Brees and Kyle Orton. Drew Brees played sparingly his freshmen year, throwing for only 232 yards, no TDs, 1 Int, and an 84.9 QBR. Over the following three years, Brees never completed below 60%, threw less than 25 TDs with a 2:1 TD:Int ration, and never had a QBR below 130. Orton's career was surprisingly similar. His freshmen year, Orton attempted a little over 200 passes, with a completion percentage under 50%, a 4:7 TD:Int ratio and a QB rating of 92. The next three seasons, he never completed less than 60% of his passes, had somewhat modest TD:Int ratios until his 31:5 season his senior year, and never had a QB rating below 127. There were 3 years where one of these 2 QBs weren't the primary snap getter. One was the previously discussed first year on campus. The second was a significant dip in 2001, Kyle Orton's freshmen year, where the PPG plummeted to 20, the TD/Int, and QBR were all bad with Brandon Hance leading the way for the most part. The other season was his last at Purdue, 2005. Notably, the offense still scored 30ppg, gained 420 yards a game, and Brandon Kirsch as a first year starter completed 59.1% for a QBR of 118.4. The year after Chaney left, the offense dropped to 26 ppg.
All in all, you can't really dispute that Chaney and the offense made Purdue drastically better, produced NFL caliber QBs at a program that has never come close to matching that sort of talent or success before or after his tenure, and helped those QBs develop from traditionally shaky starts as freshmen into high quality QBs in a relatively quick time frame. The only time Purdue has come close to a similar QB situation was with Curtis Painter, who was recruited and signed by Chaney in the first place.
Now let's move to his Tennessee days. In 2008, Fulmer's last year, Jonathan Crompton as a Junior completed 51.5 percent of his passes for a 4:5 TD ratio and a 98.1 QBR. The offense was awful averaging 17.3ppg. In Chaney's first year in 2009, the PPG improved to 29.3, Compton completed 58.3% for a TD:INT ratio of 27:13 and a QBR of 136. Once again, it's tough to argue that both his unit and his QB did anything but improve tremendously when Chaney arrived in town. In the following three years, Chaney was a bright spot for a bad Tennessee program. Despite having a notoriously difficult QB to tutor in Tyler Bray, his career ended up with an average completion percentage of 58%, his TD:INT was 69:28, and his QBR was 145. Further, despite the struggles, Chaney's offense averaged 36.2 pts in his final season.
The year after Chaney, in Butch Jones' first year, the offense regressed to 23.8 ppt, a loss of 2 TDs per game. Once again, Chaney drastically improved the offense over his predecessor, and also developed his QB, during his time at UT. Further, the offense regressed after he left.
Next up is Chaney's time at Arkansas. In 2012, the year before Chaney, Arkansas' running game was surprisingly poor, but it's passing game was pretty good under Senior Tyler Wilson. The offense scored 23.5ppg, with Wilson completing 62.1% of his passes for a 21:13 TD:INT and a QBR of 143.8. The run game, as noted, was the sore spot averaging only 118 yds/game and 3.9 yds/rush. Also in 2012, Brandon Allen completed passes in a very limited role at a 42.9% clip with a TD:INT of 1:3 and a QBR of 69.2. For the first time in Chaney's career, the offense went in reverse by a slight amount in regards to PPG after he took over. With a new starter Brandon Allen, the offense scored only 20.7 ppg. Brandon Allen himself showed improvement, throwing for a positive TD:INT at 13:10 and improving his QBR to 109. The running game showed marked improvement, improving to 209 yds/game and a 5.3 yds/rush average. Chaney's second year showed marked improvement overall. The offense scored 31.9 ppg, Brandon Allen had a 20:5 TD:INT ratio and a QBR of 129.2. The running game continued its marked improvement at 218 yds/game and a 5.1 avg.
After he left in 2015, Dan Enos showed some improvement as well. With Brandon Allen as a senior, the offense improved a few points to 35.2 ppg, with Allen throwing for a 29:7 TD:INT and a 165 QBR.
Pittsburgh is a tough measure, as is Arkansas to a lesser degree, just because he didn't spend long there. The ppg decreased from 31.2 to 28.2 under Chaney. The ypg decreased by approximately 50 from the year before under Chaney. These are skewed mostly by the loss of their big time RB after 8 carries in the first game. The replacement running back gained 700 yds less from scrimmage than their workhorse did the year before and scored 16 less TDs. That is right around the 50 yards a game they lost and far more than the 3 ppg they decreased in scoring. Another impressive aspect of his time at Pitt is that he turned former UT QB Nate Peterman into a solid QB in one year. Peterman completed 61.6% of his passes, for a 19:5 TD:INT and a QBR of 141.5.
Posted on 12/15/15 at 12:56 pm to HinesvilleThrill
So what does all that say? Typically, Chaney improves his team's offense and QB play significantly. At Purdue and Tennessee, the improvements were worth 2TDs in the first year on average. At Arkansas, it took until the second year, but once again he was worth about 2TDs. At Pittsburgh, he simply didn't have enough time to take any sort of sample size, but there were certainly flashes of what he can do. His QBs also developed significantly over his tenure at all of his stops and the 3 QBs he had the opportunity to work with for their entire career - Drew Brees, Kyle Orton, and Tyler Bray - all made the NFL with clearly different levels of success.
One of the more interesting thoughts after looking through his history is that if Brandon Allen makes an NFL roster, Jim Chaney will have never had a starting QB for 2 years or more that didn't make it to the NFL. That's pretty dang impressive.
If you look at it in summary, you'll see that Chaney made tremendous improvement in the offense in the first season at 2 of his 4 stops. If you measure it by the first two seasons, he is 3 out of 3 (since he will never have a second season at Pitt). At all 3 of those schools, his offenses improved over the season prior to his arrival by around 2TDs by the second year. At 2 out of his 3 stops, the offense regressed after he left as well. I think it's fair to say that usually, he produces better offenses, production, and QB play than the coaches that precede and follow him.
If you want to measure Jim Chaney by other statistics, feel free. This is just one criteria I like to look at when coaching changes occur and if I get more free time in the next few days, I'll talk about some of the other criteria. Nonetheless, I'm excited about what I saw today. His players and his offense usually improve over other coaches and regress upon his departure. That's coaching 101, getting better production out of the same players. Is he perfect? No. Is he guaranteed success at UGA? No. On the other hand is his past worrisome as indicated by rival fans? Not at all. If he does the same for us, developing Jacob Eason and improving our offense by a couple scores, so long as Kirby produces on the defensive side we'll all be extremely happy within a couple of years.
Posted on 12/15/15 at 12:59 pm to HinesvilleThrill
Between that, listening to what Murf Baldwin had to say about it, actually watching some old games, and understanding what Kirby most likely wants to do schematically, I came to believe that he will prove to be a good hire. I understand that I'm on an island by myself on this but that's ok.
Posted on 12/15/15 at 1:04 pm to HinesvilleThrill
I wouldn't say by yourself, I imagine most of us just haven't looked into it as much as you have.
Posted on 12/15/15 at 1:05 pm to HinesvilleThrill
Thank you for taking the time to type all of that out, you make some really good points.
Posted on 12/15/15 at 1:11 pm to JCdawg
Oh, I didn't type all that. Somebody else did. I was just responding to WG's question about what I had read. I have done the other stuff though. 
Posted on 12/15/15 at 5:40 pm to HinesvilleThrill
At the end of the day, we're either going to win big or we're not
The only thing that concerns me is his weight and appearance, and hi demeanor
Will he be able to real in croots?
The only thing that concerns me is his weight and appearance, and hi demeanor
Will he be able to real in croots?
Posted on 12/15/15 at 5:52 pm to HinesvilleThrill
quote:
I prefer looking at this comparison than simple rankings because a great coach can show tremendous improvement in his unit from the previous coach and still not be high in the national rankings for a variety of reasons. With all that said, lets begin:
Way back in 1996, Purdue scored 17.6 pts/game, they gained around 366 yds/game, and had a TD/Int ratio of 15:17. In Chaney's first year as OC in 1997, Purdue scored 33pts/game, gained around 46 yds/game, and had a TD/Int ratio of 22:17. Significant improvement would be an understatement. A further review reveals in 1996, Billy Dicken was their 3rd string QB and attempted approximately 80 passes, or around 2-3 games worth. His completion percentage was 49.4% and his TD:INT was 1:4 with a QB rating of 97.3. He started the monster's share of 1997 where his completion percentage improved to 55%, his TD:INT improved to 21:16, and his QB rating moved to 128.9.
Chaney worked primarily with 2 QBs over the long term at Purdue, both of whom we are all familiar with - Drew Brees and Kyle Orton. Drew Brees played sparingly his freshmen year, throwing for only 232 yards, no TDs, 1 Int, and an 84.9 QBR. Over the following three years, Brees never completed below 60%, threw less than 25 TDs with a 2:1 TD:Int ration, and never had a QBR below 130. Orton's career was surprisingly similar. His freshmen year, Orton attempted a little over 200 passes, with a completion percentage under 50%, a 4:7 TD:Int ratio and a QB rating of 92. The next three seasons, he never completed less than 60% of his passes, had somewhat modest TD:Int ratios until his 31:5 season his senior year, and never had a QB rating below 127. There were 3 years where one of these 2 QBs weren't the primary snap getter. One was the previously discussed first year on campus. The second was a significant dip in 2001, Kyle Orton's freshmen year, where the PPG plummeted to 20, the TD/Int, and QBR were all bad with Brandon Hance leading the way for the most part. The other season was his last at Purdue, 2005. Notably, the offense still scored 30ppg, gained 420 yards a game, and Brandon Kirsch as a first year starter completed 59.1% for a QBR of 118.4. The year after Chaney left, the offense dropped to 26 ppg.
All in all, you can't really dispute that Chaney and the offense made Purdue drastically better, produced NFL caliber QBs at a program that has never come close to matching that sort of talent or success before or after his tenure, and helped those QBs develop from traditionally shaky starts as freshmen into high quality QBs in a relatively quick time frame. The only time Purdue has come close to a similar QB situation was with Curtis Painter, who was recruited and signed by Chaney in the first place.
Relatively off base here. First, Purdue has the most NFL starts by it's QBs than any other college. I think it also holds some TD, total yards and other records....so to say Purdue had little success QB wise before Brees and Orton isn't telling the full story. Mike Phipps, Len Dawson, Gary Danielson, Bob Griese, Jim Everett and Mark Hermann all had decent NFL careers and were winners in college.
On Cheney....ehh...could have hired better. He was not our primary play caller in 1997, a guy who ended up passing away from cancer was. We got better in 1998 but was that because of Brees or Cheney? Both? Who knows.
What I do know is that the better recruits we got because of winning in the late 90s, we started to move away from the spread to more of what the NFL runs today. It worked when we had Kyle Orton and a D in 2003-2004 that had 9 NFL guys who all played at least 3 years in the league...but when the talent diminished, so did his results. He was fired in 2005 after having a pretty terrible year with Curtis Painter (who broke a lot of Brees records) and Brandon Kirsch who was a consensus top 10 QB when recruited.
Not a slam dunk hire but I think you know what you are getting with him. He does use his talent pretty well but he also has giant playcalling lapses where he seems to lose all track of down, distance, situation and point in the game.
Posted on 12/15/15 at 5:58 pm to Fats
quote:
I agree, just wish he wasn't so god damn fat.
I'm not saying he's fat, but if I had to name 5 of the fattest people I know he'd be 3 of them
This post was edited on 12/15/15 at 5:59 pm
Posted on 12/15/15 at 6:05 pm to HinesvilleThrill
Obviously have not researched as much as you but I do work with a Arkansas grad who was pretty stunned by the hire.He obviously thinks its a package deal to get Pittman.
He reminded me of our '14 game against them.I believe they pretty much drove the ball down our throats the opening drive and got the ball back close to the 50 and attempted a play action on 1st down and I believe we sacked em for a 20 yrd loss. I think they threw a pick on the next play.
Never could figure why they didn't keep pounding it after that 1st drive and especially with strength of our defense being our pass rushers.
Obvoiusly a small window to judge but it still worries me.
He reminded me of our '14 game against them.I believe they pretty much drove the ball down our throats the opening drive and got the ball back close to the 50 and attempted a play action on 1st down and I believe we sacked em for a 20 yrd loss. I think they threw a pick on the next play.
Never could figure why they didn't keep pounding it after that 1st drive and especially with strength of our defense being our pass rushers.
Obvoiusly a small window to judge but it still worries me.
This post was edited on 12/15/15 at 6:37 pm
Posted on 12/15/15 at 6:36 pm to WG_Dawg
quote:
Not trying to be antagonistic, but what have you read that makes you feel that way?
Because as Georgia fans, we are eternal sunshine pumpers.
Posted on 12/15/15 at 6:38 pm to Dawgholio
quote:
as Georgia fans, we are eternal sunshine pumpers.
you must be new here
I am, but we're a dying breed.
This post was edited on 12/15/15 at 6:39 pm
Posted on 12/15/15 at 6:59 pm to WG_Dawg
quote:
we're a dying breed.
I hope not. I need a couple of you around here you're the most level headed of that bunch. I like to think I'm realistic but I'm more negadawg than realistic.
Posted on 12/15/15 at 7:31 pm to SneakyWaff1es
Just imagine a highly regarded D-coordinator and UGA alum leaves a topped ranked program as. D-coordinator for a big time coaching gig in the SEC East. This is his first HC job and he has a large and vocal fan base. Knowing that professionally his background is in defense, he knows his pick for the O-coordinator is key to his success. So he hires a fat guy with a solid resume. Is this Kirby or Boom?
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