Started By
Message
How Do You Build An Elite Program?
Posted on 1/5/15 at 6:39 pm
Posted on 1/5/15 at 6:39 pm
Rather than clutter up the recruiting thread, I might as well start a new thread. Here is my original post...
How long does it take to build or destroy an elite program? And then secondarily, what are the most important criteria to becoming an elite program? Facilities? Top notch recruiters? A big time sugar daddy like Phil Knight?
Specifically, I look at Oregon and how long it took them to get to this point - about 20 years - in a strictly imported talent program. And conversely, Tennessee has been in the crapper for 10 and can still pull Top 5-10 classes despite being in a non-talent rich state.
Oregon started turning it around under Rich Brooks in 1994, then continued under Bellotti from 95-2008, before ultimately hitting the top level under Chip Kelly starting in 2009.
Missouri is what? About 8 years into winning at a consistent 9-10 win level? So what does it take to get it over the hump? I think reedus and Jagd are right that the next level (if it comes) will come from Pinkel's successor. It's not what we want to hear, but it's probably the truth - and that doesn't really bother me. I'm enjoying the up ride on the escalator. But the next hire will likely make or break the momentum Pinkel's built.
4
Posted on 1/5/15 at 6:42 pm to Mizz-SEC
Here is an article on Phil Knight and Oregon that talks about the early days of the building.
Behind Oregon's (Phil) Knight In Shining Armor
If we can't fully emulate the Oregon route, what similar program has blazed a trail Missouri can follow?
This post was edited on 1/5/15 at 6:52 pm
Posted on 1/5/15 at 6:47 pm to Mizz-SEC
I love this.
A sculpture at their football performance facility where each duck represents an Oregon player in the NFL.
That's one helluva visual for kids with NFL dreams.
This post was edited on 1/5/15 at 6:53 pm
Posted on 1/5/15 at 6:57 pm to Mizz-SEC
$, tradition, facilities
We have to continue building.
We have to continue building.
Posted on 1/5/15 at 7:06 pm to JesusQuintana
quote:
$, tradition, facilities
We have to continue building.
As much as I hate that it's happening, the Rams leaving St. Louis can only help the Missouri Tigers.
Mizzou needs to craft an imaginative, creative ad and PR strategy to fill the football vacuum that's coming.
And hopefully it's better than most of the shitty, farm style crap they've spit out over the years.
Posted on 1/5/15 at 7:08 pm to Mizz-SEC
Can you think of any elite programs that have ever truly been 'destroyed'? Elite programs are just a right hire away from being elite again, because of the tradition they've developed while being 'elite'. They can be mismanaged by a bad AD or a wrong HC hire (or both), but I don't think you can really destroy one, once it's really been established. There is also a latent expectation in the fanbase and donors that their team should do what it takes to stay elite, or get rid of the mismanagement when it arises.
The sugar daddy worked for Oregon, but it hasn't worked so far with OSU and Mr. 'No one cares about Missouri'. In fact I'd argue that Missouri has passed them without the sugar daddy. For us it will always depend on the management of the program going forward to ever reach that elite level. We need to keep building competitive facilities and competitive teams, and keep on knocking on that door. Sooner or later we'll get there, if we keep knocking-sooner or later that perfect storm is going to happen.
The sugar daddy worked for Oregon, but it hasn't worked so far with OSU and Mr. 'No one cares about Missouri'. In fact I'd argue that Missouri has passed them without the sugar daddy. For us it will always depend on the management of the program going forward to ever reach that elite level. We need to keep building competitive facilities and competitive teams, and keep on knocking on that door. Sooner or later we'll get there, if we keep knocking-sooner or later that perfect storm is going to happen.
Posted on 1/5/15 at 7:12 pm to Mizz-SEC
Personally, I don't see it being just ahead coaching thing.
I think you have to start with facilities which Mizzou has recognized early on is a major factor with recruits. The most glaring example, and I hate to bring this up is when EE was taking his visits between Mizzou and tOSU. His dad recorded each of the visits. There was no compairison between Mizzou's facilities and tOSU's. They (tOSU) had like a rivalry hall dedicated to the Michigan/tOSU rivalry that was just jaw dropping. The locker rooms were top notch. Then you get to Mizzou's and they are walking down a hall with a painted mural on brick and decent locker room area. It just reminded me of walking through some high school. Nothing special. Nothing at least what I saw that played on any rivalrys or traditions. Not close to tOSU.
It's kind of like that line out of Field of Dreams, "build it and they will come". Your facilities have to impress, not just football, all facets. Mizzou has a long way to go but they are getting there. I just don't see it as a Pinkel thing.
I think one of the biggest things that play into an elite program is their rivalries. That's one area that Mizzou will struggle with. We no longer have a true rival. Playing that one game every year you have to win no matter what. I think kids want to be a part of that. That will be the biggest obstacle because it takes outside involvement. We are still new to the SEC. It's just going to take time and will probably play into Pinkels successor's hands down the road. Keep getting to the SEC CCG often and that rivalry will come. Looking at you Georgia. Just might be Arkansas.
Biggest thing is just keep winning. Keep that name out front.
I think you have to start with facilities which Mizzou has recognized early on is a major factor with recruits. The most glaring example, and I hate to bring this up is when EE was taking his visits between Mizzou and tOSU. His dad recorded each of the visits. There was no compairison between Mizzou's facilities and tOSU's. They (tOSU) had like a rivalry hall dedicated to the Michigan/tOSU rivalry that was just jaw dropping. The locker rooms were top notch. Then you get to Mizzou's and they are walking down a hall with a painted mural on brick and decent locker room area. It just reminded me of walking through some high school. Nothing special. Nothing at least what I saw that played on any rivalrys or traditions. Not close to tOSU.
It's kind of like that line out of Field of Dreams, "build it and they will come". Your facilities have to impress, not just football, all facets. Mizzou has a long way to go but they are getting there. I just don't see it as a Pinkel thing.
I think one of the biggest things that play into an elite program is their rivalries. That's one area that Mizzou will struggle with. We no longer have a true rival. Playing that one game every year you have to win no matter what. I think kids want to be a part of that. That will be the biggest obstacle because it takes outside involvement. We are still new to the SEC. It's just going to take time and will probably play into Pinkels successor's hands down the road. Keep getting to the SEC CCG often and that rivalry will come. Looking at you Georgia. Just might be Arkansas.
Biggest thing is just keep winning. Keep that name out front.
Posted on 1/5/15 at 7:25 pm to Mizz-SEC
quote:
As much as I hate that it's happening, the Rams leaving St. Louis can only help the Missouri Tigers.
Well, I'm almost to the point where'd I'd help them pack the moving trucks. I'm a bigger MU fan anyway. I don't really think Kroenke entering partnership on the stadium out in LA means the Rams are definitely moving. I think Kroenke has just made sure that he profits from any team moving into the LA market. He'll either have to be bought out by the team or the league. He's already tangled up their cross ownership rules. Sooner or later the other owners are going to put him in his place, ISTM. On the other end it puts pressure on the city and the state on the stadium issue. But if the commission puts together a good and viable stadium plan in STL, I just can't see other owners letting Kroenke make a mockery of their relocation guidelines too. The NFL can't afford that kind of black eye, especially when it will be clear to all it's based on the money grubbing of a billionaire who moved his team back and forth between cities simply so that he can cash in with each move.
If it happens, it will certainly be an opening for MU in the state, and particularly in and around STL and eastern MO.. Most especially with Illinois being in the crapper currently too. The SEC is the next best thing to the NFL as far as football goes.
This post was edited on 1/5/15 at 8:02 pm
Posted on 1/5/15 at 7:35 pm to tobythetiger
I wish I shared your optimism on the Rams staying.
ESPN legal analyst Lester Munson was on 920 St. louis today and recited chapter and verse of people who shite on the NFL's relocation criteria (Al Davis, Art Modell, etc.) - and then backed the unilateral move with a victory in court.
Still, if they leave there's going to be a 40,000+ ticket buying fans looking for a football fix somewhere. The Tigers should go after them (and their corporate support) hard and turn them into full-fledged SEC fans.
That could provide the kind of boost we're talking about here.
Posted on 1/5/15 at 8:12 pm to Mizz-SEC
Well, I don't know that I'm optimistic about them staying. I'd say it's 50/50, with Kroenke wanting to leave because that's where the really big $$$ is on this deal for him. But mainly I think he's done this to make sure he cashes in on some level, beyond the relocation money.
Truth be told, on some level I really want them to leave, and a good part of that is how I think it would benefit MU. I grew up in the STL area, and I'm a bigger Tiger fan than even as a Cards or Blues fan, much less than as a Rams fan. My love affair with the NFL ended when the Big Red left. I was happy the Rams came, and have followed them as 'my' NFL team since they've been here, but que sera and all that. It just means more exposure and local media coverage of my FAVORITE team
ETA: And they might just have to dust off those 80,000 seat expansion plans if they played their cards right
Truth be told, on some level I really want them to leave, and a good part of that is how I think it would benefit MU. I grew up in the STL area, and I'm a bigger Tiger fan than even as a Cards or Blues fan, much less than as a Rams fan. My love affair with the NFL ended when the Big Red left. I was happy the Rams came, and have followed them as 'my' NFL team since they've been here, but que sera and all that. It just means more exposure and local media coverage of my FAVORITE team
ETA: And they might just have to dust off those 80,000 seat expansion plans if they played their cards right
This post was edited on 1/5/15 at 8:15 pm
Posted on 1/5/15 at 9:10 pm to tobythetiger
I can't stand the Rams. Can't tell ya how many free tickets I've passed on. Having said that, I also understand what they do for the City and for that reason hate to see them go.
I too hope Mizzou can fill in that void. They had the wrong people in place last time there was a void to do so and when Mizzou started turning things around with the football program, the Rams were already in town.
As for an elite program, it all starts with $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ and a lot of it from that guy leaving town. Maybe it would be a nice payoff. We won't fight you leaving town if you make a $___________ donation to the University.
I too hope Mizzou can fill in that void. They had the wrong people in place last time there was a void to do so and when Mizzou started turning things around with the football program, the Rams were already in town.
As for an elite program, it all starts with $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ and a lot of it from that guy leaving town. Maybe it would be a nice payoff. We won't fight you leaving town if you make a $___________ donation to the University.
Posted on 1/5/15 at 9:44 pm to reedus23
Can't they move the Chefs out of KC instead? There's a franchise that should be put to sleep. Spineless organization.
Posted on 1/6/15 at 6:37 am to TigerBornTigerBred
quote:
Can't they move the Chefs out of KC instead? There's a franchise that should be put to sleep. Spineless organization.
??????????
Posted on 1/6/15 at 8:15 am to jafo
quote:
I think you have to start with facilities which Mizzou has recognized early on is a major factor with recruits. The most glaring example, and I hate to bring this up is when EE was taking his visits between Mizzou and tOSU. His dad recorded each of the visits. There was no compairison between Mizzou's facilities and tOSU's. They (tOSU) had like a rivalry hall dedicated to the Michigan/tOSU rivalry that was just jaw dropping. The locker rooms were top notch. Then you get to Mizzou's and they are walking down a hall with a painted mural on brick and decent locker room area. It just reminded me of walking through some high school. Nothing special. Nothing at least what I saw that played on any rivalrys or traditions. Not close to tOSU.
Hopefully they get it right on the "wow" factor when they build it.
Posted on 1/6/15 at 8:28 am to Mizz-SEC
Yepp, I'm sure they already have but if not, I hope they walk through the facilities at Bama, UT, tOSU, USC, LSU, UGA, UF, wherever else. We don't need to have a 105,000 seat stadium but we can certainly create the wow factor with what we have to the same extent as the others have.
Posted on 1/6/15 at 8:46 am to reedus23
We can certainly take a lot from Ohio State. They are a program that is similar in the fact that they are the main D1 university in the state. There are others, but no major schools. Ohio State does well because they push brands. Stadium is "The Shoe", "The Game" with Michigan, things like that. There is no reason why Mizzou can't fill up our stadium the way they do.
Posted on 1/6/15 at 11:21 am to TigerBornTigerBred
quote:
Can't they move the Chefs out of KC instead? There's a franchise that should be put to sleep. Spineless organization.
Posted on 1/6/15 at 12:30 pm to Mizz-SEC
I have a different outlook on building a powerhouse.
I think it starts with fan experience. The games need to be a real, amazing event. Concessions, restrooms, tailgating, everything. Once the fans want to come to every game and it's a great experience, you build an expectation.
If I was a new Mizzou AD, the first things I'd do would be upgrade concessions, parking, restrooms, and concourses. I'd figure out how to get rid of Hearnes (or at least the unnecessary half of it) and build a grove-like tailgating area. Get the ticket revenues up, get the donations up, and then build the fancy shite.
Just me, though.
I think it starts with fan experience. The games need to be a real, amazing event. Concessions, restrooms, tailgating, everything. Once the fans want to come to every game and it's a great experience, you build an expectation.
If I was a new Mizzou AD, the first things I'd do would be upgrade concessions, parking, restrooms, and concourses. I'd figure out how to get rid of Hearnes (or at least the unnecessary half of it) and build a grove-like tailgating area. Get the ticket revenues up, get the donations up, and then build the fancy shite.
Just me, though.
Posted on 1/6/15 at 12:52 pm to Mizzeaux
I waited over 25 min in line at halftime this year to get a pretzel. They were out as I stepped to the counter.
Concessions piss me off. I am tired of these volunteer groups running these things. They are slow, can't do math, and can't keep up with high volume. At the very least Mizzou needs to invest in technology so we can have decent registers and card swiping at the concession stands.
Concessions piss me off. I am tired of these volunteer groups running these things. They are slow, can't do math, and can't keep up with high volume. At the very least Mizzou needs to invest in technology so we can have decent registers and card swiping at the concession stands.
Posted on 1/6/15 at 12:58 pm to everytrueson
quote:
Concessions piss me off. I am tired of these volunteer groups running these things. They are slow, can't do math, and can't keep up with high volume. At the very least Mizzou needs to invest in technology so we can have decent registers and card swiping at the concession stands.
Yep, little things like that. Higher quality/more concessions is key. I haven't been to Faurot in years, but it wouldn't surprise me to hear there's still piss troughs in the restrooms. I'm sure the south endzone has still got no services. The most important thing to me is the experience, especially when you're Mizzou and a huge number of potential attendees are coming from cities that are hours away with major league/NFL facilities.
Page 1 of 2
Popular
Back to top
Follow SECRant for SEC Football News