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some numbers
Posted on 9/27/17 at 9:01 am
Posted on 9/27/17 at 9:01 am
everyone holds Petrino in high regard around here for the 10 and 11 win seasons he ended on and that's fair, but it was also a product of his scheduling which has gotten a lot harder since Bert came on.
I dug in using advanced stats from Bill Connelly
Here's some things to consider
In Petrino's 1st 4 years, he faced 23 "top 30" teams, vs. Bert's 27, this alone is problematic since neither coach has a great record vs. top 30 competition.
Vs. Sub Top 30 teams, both coaches have been great, Petrino has an 85% win % and Bert has an 87% win % over a very similar sample set.
So biggest difference in records is scheduling and win % vs. top 30 teams
Here's where i think it gets interesting:
Petrino's win% vs. top 30 teams is 40% compared to bert's 33%, however if you exclude Bert's 1st year at Arkansas, he is at 36% vs. top 30 at Arkansas, and if you exclude the 1st 2 years(which i think is fair following the John L disaster), he's 43% vs. top 30 at Arkansas(equal to or better than Petrino in big games, whether or not you want to believe it). Even if you don't want to exclude the first 2 years, its worth noting that he's beating more Top 30 teams now than when he started.
The biggest problem he's faced, which should surprise no one, is since Petrino left, the West has seen A&M join the division and improve(previously sub top 30, now roughly top 30 or better) and non-conference has been replaced with TCU(Top 30 this year) and Texas Tech(50th, so not Top 30, but not the Troy and Tenn Tech that Petrino beat up on) and Toledo(which actually ranked 33rd the year they beat us. In addition, Ole Miss cheated to reach a consistent Top 30 and Dak vaulted Miss. St into Top 30. Also, Petrino got Vandy twice. In short, the average schedule is a lot tougher than it used to be.
The good news?
Bert is beating sub Top 30 better than Petrino
Bert is beating Top 30 on par with Petrino in the last 2 years
The schedule gets easier going forward(A&M is declining, Ole Miss is declining, too early to tell on Miss St, We get Vandy then Kentucky, non-conference's toughest test should be 53rd Colorado St., and while also too early to tell, i think the ogre experiment will torpedo LSU)
So there's some numbers for you guys.
If the wheels fall off and we win 5 or less this year, he should go, if not, i think there's real statistical evidence that he is improving this situation and has a real chance for 7 wins this year and 9 wins next year.
I dug in using advanced stats from Bill Connelly
Here's some things to consider
In Petrino's 1st 4 years, he faced 23 "top 30" teams, vs. Bert's 27, this alone is problematic since neither coach has a great record vs. top 30 competition.
Vs. Sub Top 30 teams, both coaches have been great, Petrino has an 85% win % and Bert has an 87% win % over a very similar sample set.
So biggest difference in records is scheduling and win % vs. top 30 teams
Here's where i think it gets interesting:
Petrino's win% vs. top 30 teams is 40% compared to bert's 33%, however if you exclude Bert's 1st year at Arkansas, he is at 36% vs. top 30 at Arkansas, and if you exclude the 1st 2 years(which i think is fair following the John L disaster), he's 43% vs. top 30 at Arkansas(equal to or better than Petrino in big games, whether or not you want to believe it). Even if you don't want to exclude the first 2 years, its worth noting that he's beating more Top 30 teams now than when he started.
The biggest problem he's faced, which should surprise no one, is since Petrino left, the West has seen A&M join the division and improve(previously sub top 30, now roughly top 30 or better) and non-conference has been replaced with TCU(Top 30 this year) and Texas Tech(50th, so not Top 30, but not the Troy and Tenn Tech that Petrino beat up on) and Toledo(which actually ranked 33rd the year they beat us. In addition, Ole Miss cheated to reach a consistent Top 30 and Dak vaulted Miss. St into Top 30. Also, Petrino got Vandy twice. In short, the average schedule is a lot tougher than it used to be.
The good news?
Bert is beating sub Top 30 better than Petrino
Bert is beating Top 30 on par with Petrino in the last 2 years
The schedule gets easier going forward(A&M is declining, Ole Miss is declining, too early to tell on Miss St, We get Vandy then Kentucky, non-conference's toughest test should be 53rd Colorado St., and while also too early to tell, i think the ogre experiment will torpedo LSU)
So there's some numbers for you guys.
If the wheels fall off and we win 5 or less this year, he should go, if not, i think there's real statistical evidence that he is improving this situation and has a real chance for 7 wins this year and 9 wins next year.
Posted on 9/27/17 at 9:07 am to admiralduckwad
Here's some numbers for you...
In Houston Nutt's absolute worst 5 year stretch, he was 18-23 against SEC competition with a loss in the SEC Championship game.
In Danny Ford's 5 year tenure, he was 16-24-1 against SEC competition with a loss in the SEC Championship game.
Bret Bielema is 10-23 against SEC competition.
To match Danny Ford, he would have to finish the season 6-1 against SEC competition.
To Match Houston Nutt, he would have to go 7-0 AND win the SEC Championship game.
Bobby Petrino was 17-15 in his FOUR years.
Bret Bielema would have to finish 7-0 to match in FIVE years, Bobby's FOUR year win total.
Bret is the single worst coach by record we have had since we have been a member of the SEC.
In Houston Nutt's absolute worst 5 year stretch, he was 18-23 against SEC competition with a loss in the SEC Championship game.
In Danny Ford's 5 year tenure, he was 16-24-1 against SEC competition with a loss in the SEC Championship game.
Bret Bielema is 10-23 against SEC competition.
To match Danny Ford, he would have to finish the season 6-1 against SEC competition.
To Match Houston Nutt, he would have to go 7-0 AND win the SEC Championship game.
Bobby Petrino was 17-15 in his FOUR years.
Bret Bielema would have to finish 7-0 to match in FIVE years, Bobby's FOUR year win total.
Bret is the single worst coach by record we have had since we have been a member of the SEC.
Posted on 9/27/17 at 9:08 am to Killean
he was also handed the worst situation, both from a team standpoint and scheduling standpoint.
Remember how shitty alabama was when Nutt and Ford coached?
Edit: Ill help you since the numbers are handy. Nutt's last 2 years Bama was sub Top 30, almost rent-a-wins based on either Petrino or Bert's record vs. those types of teams and guess what, Nutt still lost to them along with 4 other losses that year
Remember how shitty alabama was when Nutt and Ford coached?
Edit: Ill help you since the numbers are handy. Nutt's last 2 years Bama was sub Top 30, almost rent-a-wins based on either Petrino or Bert's record vs. those types of teams and guess what, Nutt still lost to them along with 4 other losses that year
This post was edited on 9/27/17 at 9:13 am
Posted on 9/27/17 at 9:44 am to admiralduckwad
It's year 5 for Bielema.
He has to win FIVE more SEC games to have averaged three wins a year in his tenure.
Do you think it's going to happen?
If everyone else is getting better, and we're not.. then I think we've identified the problem, don't you?
He has to win FIVE more SEC games to have averaged three wins a year in his tenure.
Do you think it's going to happen?
If everyone else is getting better, and we're not.. then I think we've identified the problem, don't you?
Posted on 9/27/17 at 9:46 am to admiralduckwad
How about this.. this year no-one in the sec that is on our schedule should be I. The top 30 outside of bama. The sec is at its worst in a very long time. And don't give bielema a pass for year 2. He had one of the best defenses we've had in 15 years and squandered it.
Posted on 9/27/17 at 9:58 am to Killean
quote:
If everyone else is getting better, and we're not.. then I think we've identified the problem, don't you?
yes, John L Smith
My point is we are still likely paying for that along with tougher OOC scheduling
We honestly would have been better off getting sanctioned and losing a handful of scholarships than blowing up effectively 2 years of recruiting for that debacle.
Posted on 9/27/17 at 9:59 am to Hawgnsincebirth55
quote:
And don't give bielema a pass for year 2.
perfectly fine, but hes beating more top 30 teams in the last 2 years than he did in the first 2 years and more so than Petrino does. Thats the point
Posted on 9/27/17 at 10:11 am to admiralduckwad
quote:
perfectly fine, but hes beating more top 30 teams in the last 2 years than he did in the first 2 years and more so than Petrino does. Thats the point
The point is.....is that he just fricking sucks.
He's fat as frick too.
Posted on 9/27/17 at 11:05 am to Killean
quote:
It's year 5 for Bielema.
He has to win FIVE more SEC games to have averaged three wins a year in his tenure.
Do you think it's going to happen?
If everyone else is getting better, and we're not.. then I think we've identified the problem, don't you?
All of this. Can we quit with the "he was handed a bad situation" BS
This is entirely his team, his staff, his everything, and we suck
Posted on 9/27/17 at 11:35 am to Hubbhogg
I wouldn't necessarily say everyone else is getting better. Tenner is down. Mizzou sucks, Florida sucks, A&M is down this year, will be much improved going forward and we couldn't beat them. Auburn is down on offense, has a really good D line. Lsu may be in a downward spiral. Ole miss is on the brink of destruction. Miss st is probably going to be good as long as Mullen is there and they don't get caught cheating.
This post was edited on 9/27/17 at 11:36 am
Posted on 9/27/17 at 1:40 pm to admiralduckwad
love your argument based in numbers
vs the durrrr we suck bert is fat would rather have nutt crowd
vs the durrrr we suck bert is fat would rather have nutt crowd
Posted on 9/27/17 at 2:06 pm to admiralduckwad
quote:
yes, John L Smith
My point is we are still likely paying for that
How are we still being impacted by John L Smith being our coach for 8 months a half decade ago?
quote:
along with tougher OOC scheduling
Our OOC schedule hasnt exactly been a murderers row under Bielema. We've had one P5 OOC opponent per year, and none has finished with more than 7 total wins.
2013 Rutgers: 6-7
2014 Texas Tech: 4-8
2015 Texas Tech: 7-6
2016 TCU: 6-7
2017 TCU: TBD (currently 4-0)
Posted on 9/27/17 at 2:20 pm to admiralduckwad
quote:petrino would've won every Game bielema did and he would've never lost to Toledo, Missouri, Texas tech, Rutgers, or Virginia tech.
perfectly fine, but hes beating more top 30 teams in the last 2 years than he did in the first 2 years and more so than Petrino does. Thats the point
Posted on 9/27/17 at 2:57 pm to Hawgnsincebirth55
quote:
would've never lost to Toledo, Missouri, Texas tech, Rutgers, or Virginia tech.
And y'all would be at least 50/50 vs us
Posted on 9/27/17 at 2:57 pm to Hawgnsincebirth55
Petrino could have easily been 13-0 in 2010.
Alabama game - should have won
Auburn game - leading in the 4th(Mallet injured/questionable calls)
OSU - had the opportunity to close it out, but didn't.
Look I like Bielema as a person, but he's nowhere near the level of coach as Bobby.
Alabama game - should have won
Auburn game - leading in the 4th(Mallet injured/questionable calls)
OSU - had the opportunity to close it out, but didn't.
Look I like Bielema as a person, but he's nowhere near the level of coach as Bobby.
Posted on 9/27/17 at 4:04 pm to razorbackfan4life
2010 was probably the best football team I've ever seen Arkansas have in my short lifetime. Either then or 2006.
Posted on 9/27/17 at 5:09 pm to admiralduckwad
Petrino didn't exactly inherit a great situation either. Just like Bert, he played a ton of freshman his first year, yet he still won two SEC games. The 2010 and 2011 SEC West was also a lot tougher than what Bert has faced in 2016 and 2017. Comparing Bert favorably to Petrino is laughable at best. I member when we didn't have two pre-October losses every single year. It was nice.
ETA: Don't worry though. "We'll figure it out" and "it's all correctable."
ETA: Don't worry though. "We'll figure it out" and "it's all correctable."
This post was edited on 9/27/17 at 5:16 pm
Posted on 9/27/17 at 5:24 pm to Hawgnsincebirth55
2006 was far better. With a decent qb coach, that's a national title contending team.
Best defense I've seen at Arkansas
Best defense I've seen at Arkansas
Posted on 9/27/17 at 8:01 pm to cubsfan5150
quote:
2006 was far better. With a decent qb coach, that's a national title contending team.
Best defense I've seen at Arkansas
The irony is that that team lost to Bert.
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