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Posted on 12/2/17 at 9:32 pm to Drewbie
quote:
We need someone that knows how to build a foundation for a program. That's not a job for a first time head coach.
Makes sense, and I would agree to an extent. But then there are no sure thing hires at Arkansas. Doesn't matter if it's Gus, Kiffin, Norvell, Leach, Venebles, or Morris, we are going to be throwing the dice.
Each have strong and weak points. I happen to think the ceiling may be highest with Venebles, because I'm a defense first guy. I think Norvell with a great DC comes next. Then Kiffin, then Gus.
Posted on 12/2/17 at 9:37 pm to Raz4back
quote:
Do you expect Arkansas to recruit at Georgia’s level
Already fought this battle in the offense or defense thread, look it up.
No, I don't expect us to recruit on anyone else's level. I believe that recruiting and playing at the highest levels we can achieve on defense gives us the best chance to have the most success. Statistics and history prove this position correct, especially in the SEC.
Posted on 12/3/17 at 8:29 am to Drewbie
quote:
We need someone that knows how to build a foundation for a program. That's not a job for a first time head coach.
And that foundation is defense. Always has been, always will be, until they finally make tackling illegal.
Defense is the foundation for a lot of reasons, but mostly because in the SEC it has to be. This is a good thing, because a top 10 defense is almost a requirement for success at the highest levels.
The bottom line is, we either hire a guy like Venebles as head coach, miraculously find a DC like Saban or Venebles, or we continue down the road we've been on for the last 5 or 6 years. We mught as well have kept Bielema.
Posted on 12/3/17 at 12:33 pm to troyt37
Georgia did, in fact, win the SEC. And they are loaded with talent across the board.
That having been said, and I mean this only in the nicest way, Kirby Smart walked into a steak and blowjob deal at Georgia. Not only was the team filled with talent when he got there they are squatting on top of one of the best recruiting areas in the country.
At the same time Smart landed there the usual powers in the East have spontaneously combusted with USC, Florida, Tennessee, and Missouri all being average teams at best and some quite a bit worse off then average. So his situation is atypical at best.
Could Venables do well here? Well he has zero head coaching experience so its rolling the dice even more then we would be doing with the Kifftser and Norvell. Some coordinators step up just fine. Some prove beyond a shadow of a doubt they should have remained a coordinator.
I know he's your candidate for the position and I'm not saying he'd be a woeful failure... but perhaps you might want to consider that more so then any other candidate he's a big gamble. After the last 6 years of futility do we want to take a major risk that could lead to another 3 or 4 years of misery?
That having been said, and I mean this only in the nicest way, Kirby Smart walked into a steak and blowjob deal at Georgia. Not only was the team filled with talent when he got there they are squatting on top of one of the best recruiting areas in the country.
At the same time Smart landed there the usual powers in the East have spontaneously combusted with USC, Florida, Tennessee, and Missouri all being average teams at best and some quite a bit worse off then average. So his situation is atypical at best.
Could Venables do well here? Well he has zero head coaching experience so its rolling the dice even more then we would be doing with the Kifftser and Norvell. Some coordinators step up just fine. Some prove beyond a shadow of a doubt they should have remained a coordinator.
I know he's your candidate for the position and I'm not saying he'd be a woeful failure... but perhaps you might want to consider that more so then any other candidate he's a big gamble. After the last 6 years of futility do we want to take a major risk that could lead to another 3 or 4 years of misery?
Posted on 12/3/17 at 12:40 pm to troyt37
quote:
The bottom line is, we either hire a guy like Venebles as head coach, miraculously find a DC like Saban or Venebles, or we continue down the road we've been on for the last 5 or 6 years. We mught as well have kept Bielema.
No, here is the issue. Most don't view a 10/11 win season without an SEC Championship in the same light as a 7/8 win season. You can make the argument all day that defense is the biggest factor but we can do better than Bret with a focus on offense and even a shitty/mediocre defense. Facts have shown that. You even did the research for us.
Posted on 12/3/17 at 12:44 pm to troyt37
No one is really debating the defense thing. We need a solid defense.
If Venebles again being passed over by every single program with an opening isn’t an indication, I don’t know what is.
I guess every program in the US is as dumb as we are.
If Venebles again being passed over by every single program with an opening isn’t an indication, I don’t know what is.
I guess every program in the US is as dumb as we are.
Posted on 12/3/17 at 12:51 pm to Raz4back
quote:
Do you expect Arkansas to recruit at Georgia’s level
Troy says recruiting is irrelevant.
Posted on 12/3/17 at 12:53 pm to Arksulli
quote:
I know he's your candidate for the position and I'm not saying he'd be a woeful failure... but perhaps you might want to consider that more so then any other candidate he's a big gamble. After the last 6 years of futility do we want to take a major risk that could lead to another 3 or 4 years of misery?
I understand what you're saying, but I don't agree that he is any more of a gamble.
Gus has a solid resume, but there's no gamble about the fact that he will divide the fanbase. Win, lose, or draw, part of our fans are going to hate the man.
Kiffin hasn't been solid or dependable his entire career. Any honest person can look at Kiffin on the sidelines and see that he thinks he is bigger than the program he works for. It was true at USC, and Tennessee. It will certainly be true at Arkansas.
I think Norvell is the least of the gambles in this regard. He won't walk in to a divided fanbase, and judging by fans around here, all he really has to do is have an exciting offense. Winning games of significance is entirely optional for the majority here. If that is true for most fans, he's our guy.
Venebles could be the worst hire ever, bring us a national championship, or anything in between. I just have an overwhelming sense that we are goung to want to gouge out our eyes when we see him wrecking shite at Kansas State.
Posted on 12/3/17 at 12:56 pm to Stonehog
quote:
Troy says recruiting is irrelevant.
Are you a liar, or just an a-hole?
Posted on 12/3/17 at 12:58 pm to troyt37
You're claiming you didn't say that?
Posted on 12/3/17 at 12:59 pm to STLhog
quote:
If Venebles again being passed over by every single program with an opening isn’t an indication, I don’t know what is.
Not really. They just have to have the same outlook and philosophy that the majority of you have, which is in almost direct and complete contradiction of well established and proven recipes for success at the highest levels of college football.
This post was edited on 12/3/17 at 1:00 pm
Posted on 12/3/17 at 1:06 pm to troyt37
We will never have a defense like that (Clemson, Georgia, etc) because it takes an elite front seven especially with special defensive linemen.
Demographics and location to talent doesn’t add up for us.
Demographics and location to talent doesn’t add up for us.
Posted on 12/3/17 at 1:07 pm to Stonehog
quote:
You're claiming you didn't say that?
I know exactly what I said, and you've lied about it more than once.
Being able to out recruit Alabama or anyone else is irrelevant to the fact that putting the very best defense on the field possible is the most proven path to the highest success achievable by any given team.
Make all the hay you can with that, but if you can't tell the truth about it, frick off.
Posted on 12/3/17 at 1:10 pm to RazorHawg
quote:
because it takes an elite front seven especially with special defensive linemen.
With 5/4 star depth right behind it. I think the issue on defense is that it requires more depth in general.
Posted on 12/3/17 at 1:14 pm to RazorHawg
quote:
Demographics and location to talent doesn’t add up for us.
It didn't in Oklahoma or South Carolina either, until it did. What changed?
Posted on 12/3/17 at 1:18 pm to troyt37
quote:
Being able to out recruit Alabama or anyone else is irrelevant
Posted on 12/3/17 at 1:22 pm to rockiee
And speed. Last head coach didn’t value.
Posted on 12/3/17 at 1:27 pm to troyt37
How good does our defense need to be to win the SEC? This is what we should be discussing, because history suggests that it needs to be one of the best in the nation.
Posted on 12/3/17 at 1:30 pm to Stonehog
So, both a liar and an a-hole, gotcha. We won't bother each other any more.
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