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re: Why should Eason start over Fromm?
Posted on 9/27/17 at 11:48 am to FooManChoo
Posted on 9/27/17 at 11:48 am to FooManChoo
The receiver needed time to make it 50 yards downfield, and the qb was pressured on the play, which forced a delay.
1
Posted on 9/27/17 at 11:53 am to Spaceman Spiff
quote:
There is no arguing that Fromm is more accurate. I am amazed. We had Mason who was very accurate and everybody was running around criticizing him because he did not have a great arm.
quote:
These are not one in the same.
I think you are missing my point. We were angst about Mason not having a strong arm to stretch the field, and now were have a kid with a strong arm that can stretch the field and we are angsting over he is not accurate enough. TYPICALLY....QB's with strong arms are not as accurate. Not always. Just typically. No matter what we have....we want to opposite.
Posted on 9/27/17 at 11:57 am to SquatchDawg
quote:
This wasn't a back shoulder pass...this was a long throw where Wims was fully stretched at full speed..
This is what I am talking about. Fromm has thrown passed deep that were short and they called them back shouldered passes. (Which they were not)
It seems to depend on the perspective of the poster. We seem to have a large number of posters that insist they know a lot about football and they do not. They parrot what they hear an announcer say, or another poster, then color it with their own perception which is slanted to a player they like or do not like.
Posted on 9/27/17 at 11:58 am to djsdawg
quote:
Some pass plays are designed that way, others aren't.
And the 2 or 3 I am talking about were not designed that way.
Posted on 9/27/17 at 12:03 pm to FooManChoo
quote:
I don't want to downplay the throw because it was great, but had the defender stayed with Ridley, it could have been a much different outcome regardless of Eason's arm strength.
You can say that about any pass. if the defenders do their jobs properly no pass would ever be completed. Or very few would be.
quote:
I don't know how much of that is on purpose and how much of that is not.
Nobody can say for sure. But, the ones i have in mind looks like he is putting every thing he has into the throw and they are still short. Again....appears to me that way.
Posted on 9/27/17 at 12:15 pm to DawgsLife
Which ones are those? Not the pass to wims that set up the game winner vs nd. That was back shoulder.
This post was edited on 9/27/17 at 12:17 pm
Posted on 9/27/17 at 12:17 pm to DawgsLife
quote:
This is what I am talking about. Fromm has thrown passed deep that were short and they called them back shouldered passes. (Which they were not)
The defenders were behind the receivers so Fromm threw the ball short on purpose. No matter what you call it, the balls were placed where they couldn't be defended.
Posted on 9/27/17 at 12:33 pm to FooManChoo
quote:
Flea Flicker - That was 47 yard touch pass (TTA) that looked effortless.
Actually we were on our own 41 and the ball went to their 20 which means he threw it for 39 yards. Every QB should be able to throw the ball 39 yards in the air.
As for the other two links....arm strength and velocity are two different things. A lot of QB's can throw the ball hard at short distances, but struggle throwing the ball down the field.
An example of what I am talking about is the ball Mecole Hardman dropped against Notre Dame, I believe. It was woefully under thrown and Hardman had to come back for it. Hardman should have had it as it hit him in right in the hands. Monday morning everybody was acting like Fromm under threw it on purpose. I don't believe he did do it on purpose.
Posted on 9/27/17 at 12:34 pm to djsdawg
quote:
Which ones are those? Not the pass to wims that set up the game winner vs nd. That was back shoulder.
One was the pass to Hardman that he dropped. I honestly can't remember who the other pass was thrown to or even which game it was in.
Posted on 9/27/17 at 12:35 pm to Whiznot
quote:
The defenders were behind the receivers so Fromm threw the ball short on purpose. No matter what you call it, the balls were placed where they couldn't be defended.
Ok.
Posted on 9/27/17 at 12:44 pm to DawgsLife
Check this out at the Notre dame game at the 2:50:30 mark.
LINK
Had Fromm hit him in stride it was an easy TD. Hardman should have caught the ball, but he was behind the defenders and it should have been an easy TD. Now, every QB sometimes makes a bad throw from time to time, but there has been 2 or 3 passes that were badly under thrown by Fromm. So, yes, it can be argued that Fromm has made some passes that Eason might have missed on, but there have been some passes by Fromm that Eason might have hit on.
And again...because some posters on here see what they want to see....UI am a big Fromm fan and think he is ahead of Eason in some areas. I also think Eason is ahead of Fromm in some areas.
LINK
Had Fromm hit him in stride it was an easy TD. Hardman should have caught the ball, but he was behind the defenders and it should have been an easy TD. Now, every QB sometimes makes a bad throw from time to time, but there has been 2 or 3 passes that were badly under thrown by Fromm. So, yes, it can be argued that Fromm has made some passes that Eason might have missed on, but there have been some passes by Fromm that Eason might have hit on.
And again...because some posters on here see what they want to see....UI am a big Fromm fan and think he is ahead of Eason in some areas. I also think Eason is ahead of Fromm in some areas.
Posted on 9/27/17 at 12:50 pm to DawgsLife
That was one a couple yards short from perfect but still very catchable and in no way at risk for an int.
Posted on 9/27/17 at 12:51 pm to djsdawg
quote:True, but it comes down to timing. An earlier-thrown touch pass should reach the receiver at the same time as a delayed bullet pass, depending on the velocity and timing of each.
The receiver needed time to make it 50 yards downfield,
quote:There was initial pressure but Eason stepped up in the pocket and proceeded to look downfield. All he needed was maybe one or two steps up in the pocket but he went more than that. He had about 2 seconds of clean pocket to decide before releasing after the initial pressure.
and the qb was pressured on the play, which forced a delay.
My point is that if Fromm is back there and makes a quick step to avoid the pressure, he has plenty of time to air it out to cover the same distance and hit the receiver. It wouldn't be as impressive as Easons' canon shot, but it could have gotten the job done with all else being equal.
Even if not, my initial point still stands that we shouldn't choose a QB based on a throw like that because a throw like that is needed very rarely. We need to game plan around the other 99% of the throws and situations.
Posted on 9/27/17 at 12:52 pm to djsdawg
quote:
That was one a couple yards short from perfect but still very catchable and in no way at risk for an int.
True. But that wasn't the point. I was saying his arm strength wasn't as good as Eason's, but when he threw short people claimed he was making a back shouldered pass, or he meant to throw it short. If anybody wants to claim he meant to throw that ball short or it was a back shouldered pass, they need to take a good long look at it again.
Posted on 9/27/17 at 12:55 pm to DawgsLife
I do agree with you that "back shoulder pass" is often an underthrown ball that the receiver adjusts to and the defender doesn't see. I wondered about that with some of Murray's throws too.
Posted on 9/27/17 at 12:56 pm to DawgsLife
quote:That's true but my point was about that particular play that is being used to prove Eason can do what Fromm can't. What we care about is results, and if the defender doesn't inexplicably slow down on that play, we might not even be talking about that throw. It wasn't the throw alone that gave us the TD.
You can say that about any pass. if the defenders do their jobs properly no pass would ever be completed. Or very few would be.
quote:I know what you're talking about and I don't know if they are short on purpose or not, but even if they weren't short on purpose, the question that should be asked (in regards to Fromm's arm strength) is whether they were short because he misjudged the timing or because he physically couldn't throw it further than he did. Eason over threw and under threw quite a lot last year and I think it is due to the timing being off rather than a limitation on the QB's arm.
Nobody can say for sure. But, the ones i have in mind looks like he is putting every thing he has into the throw and they are still short. Again....appears to me that way
Posted on 9/27/17 at 12:59 pm to SquatchDawg
quote:
. I wondered about that with some of Murray's throws too.
It is a read. It always is.
Fromm missed Godwin earlier in the season. The fans see Godwin let up on the route and get upset. The reality is that Fromm didn't properly read the defender over top the receiver and he threw the go route while Godwin is running down the sideline with his eyes looking for the ball coming at him 15 yards shorter.
Posted on 9/27/17 at 1:01 pm to DawgsLife
Lots of under thrown balls have been caught but never has an over thrown ball been caught. I'd much rather Fromm leave the ball 2 yards short than see Eason throw one 10 yards long.
ETA: I was shocked to see this thread still alive. Dawgslife doing work in here.
ETA: I was shocked to see this thread still alive. Dawgslife doing work in here.
This post was edited on 9/27/17 at 1:02 pm
Posted on 9/27/17 at 1:01 pm to meansonny
What's the tell as to whether you go long or short with the pass?
Posted on 9/27/17 at 1:02 pm to FooManChoo
quote:
My point is that if Fromm is back there and makes a quick step to avoid the pressure, he has plenty of time to air it out to cover the same distance and hit the receiver. It wouldn't be as impressive as Easons' canon shot, but it could have gotten the job done with all else being equal.
It took the rocket shot to get there before the defenders. The delay kept the safety away from where he threw it, which was crucial to the plays success. The safety simply didnt have the time to get where he needed to be.
I do agree with your initial point though. That is just about the only thing I think Eason is better than Fromm at.
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