re: UGA Basketball Season Long Thread (19-15, 10-10) // Season Complete

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so easy to throw your ridulous nonsense out of the window and the fact that you refuse to use any of my previous facts

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1 dance invite in the past 6 years. Refuse to use that.

Your rhetoric is so flawed!

We have 3 guys that have played beyond 1 year in the SEC.

1. JJ
2. Juwan Parker
3. Yante
Two of the three will return next year.

4 players have 1 year going into the season
1. Turtle
2. JJ
3. Mike Edwards
4. Wilridge
Each of the four will return next season

3 players were playing in their first year in the SEC.
1. Pape Diatta
2. Jordan Harris
3. Tyree Crump

All three return next year.

You fail to see the difference between a sr and a sophomore. Contrary to your illogical brain, one year of experiences doesn't make someone a seasoned vet.

You tired to use my own argument against me with regards to one year of experience and Tyree, Harris, and Pape. Yet you've failed miserably! The whole point of my argument is that we have a young team and their production will increase each year. Next year those 4 sophomores will produce more as will the freshman and having a team of 2 SR's, 4 Jr's and 3 Sophmores will be a much more seasoned team and will produce more as an entire unit. Get out of here with your garbage logical reasoning skills.

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Fib...I've provided plenty of facts yet you reject them as being false because development will come regardless of who the coach is.

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There's probably no significant need for me to reply here, as WG basically made all of the same points that I would have, but I guess I'll add my thoughts (rather lengthy ones). I have never said that Fox can't develop *any* players, however, there is not a track record of Fox having significant player development across the board. Inevitably, for every one "hit" in that department, there are 2-3 misses in the same season...

Your "shoulds" rely on Fox hitting on significant player development this off-season for 3 players at a minimum, and realistically counting on 2 more contributing as freshmen in some meaningful capacity, even though Fox has routinely shown that he doesn't really trust freshmen enough to consistently play them for significant minutes... even when they're outperforming the alternatives.

Let's take them one at a time:

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"Yante and DO should be on every of the better big me. Duo's in the SEC."

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Going to assume that was a simple typo... "big men duos". Yante is Yante... we are all of course assuming he comes back which is reasonable but not a guarantee. As far as Ogbeide though, are you expecting his minutes to increase? He had the jump from 4pts/5 boards per game on 15 minutes avg last season to 7pts/7 boards per game on 23 minutes avg this season... He's a good role player, but hardly an elite talent at this time.

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"Crump and Harris should be vastly improved"

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Why? Crump was reasonably good this year in limited play but also has big steps to be made defensively or it's unlikely for him to see significant minutes (this has long been a Fox point of emphasis). Harris did nothing to wow us in my opinion this season and hasn't really "trended" toward improving over the course of the season even. His top performances were all in the first half of the season and even still only averaged 5 points per game.

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"Pape should improve a good bit and Toe showed flashes"

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Again... why would Pape improve a "good bit"? What gives you reason for this confidence. He averaged 2 points and 2 boards per game with over 10 minutes per game played on average as a Junior transfer. No one is saying it can't happen, but to say "should" implies that there is a legitimate cause for optimism and I am curious if you have the intelligence to come up with an argument to support it.

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"we have legit talent coming in while losing very little outside of JJ."

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So another way of phrasing that is that arguably our best player (or at worst second best) is leaving this year and we have at present the 9th ranked class in the SEC. (even if I account for avg player rating rather than the combined volume/quality value it's still 8th among teams ahead of us and LSU would jump ahead to offset that). There is a strong correlation to guard play and success in college basketball. Replacing JJ is going to be hard. (See: Games where JJ gets in foul trouble... like last Saturday against Arkansas)

While we're at it...

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Our "hump" is getting into the tourney. We've been barely outside the last three years so naturally that's the "hump". If we don't get there next year then it's time to move on. Assuming recruiting continues what it's doing we should make the tournament in 2019.

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Our "goal" in year 8 under a coach really should not just be to make the tournament. Particularly when that team is not "young", but instead has outstanding play from its two best players. That is *Fox's* hump... We should, with top 30-40 recruiting classes, be looking to make it to the second round of the tournament (top 32) and maybe have a chance to make it to the second weekend. That's a pretty realistic picture for what should have been possible with Fox. I'll grant him that the Michigan St draw was a bit unlucky as that team was woefully underseeded, but otherwise it's been failing to make the tournament altogether. That's not on anyone but Fox and the players that he put on the court.


And now for the good stuff...

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Everything is based on should so let's throw that argument out the window. I love debating with you guys because it's so easy to throw your ridulous nonsense out of the window and the fact that you refuse to use any of my previous facts. What's next? Bring it on...it's really not hard to argue with anarchists who don't have a freakin' clue about what it takes for athletics to develop.

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Yes, all future looking statements are based on "should" or some variant... however... the problem with your "should" statements are that Fox has routinely shown that the expectations you're stating "should" happen are unrealistic, and at best you "should" get about 20-30% of what you're asking for. Meanwhile, one thing that *is* a guarantee is you're losing a metric shite load of production from JJ that isn't going to be simple to replace.

A new coach certainly isn't any sort of silver bullet/sure thing, but at present, Coach Fox is a known quantity, and that known quantity has regularly failed to put forth a team that has legitimate chances to make it into the tournament, even with arguably some of the best players to wear the red and black in Maten and Frazier. One more season of seeing the same thing is now "enough"? It's not anarchic to think that it would be better to give a new coach the best chance for success with a returning Maten, rather than wasting his senior season and then leaving a new coach another rebuilding project where it might be difficult to accurately assess his success/failure for the first 2-3 seasons.

I mean, you may love debating but it's certainly not because you're here making compelling arguments that are based upon facts. Your "facts" have already been refuted as simply opinion and conjecture. Facts are not in your favor. And I say this as someone who legitimately appreciates what Fox has done here but also recognizing that he has reached his apex. I don't think he's a terrible coach, I just don't think he's the coach that UGA needs anymore. He's a poor man's Mark Richt... He has gotten the program to consistent 18-20 win seasons but ultimately the teams are rather unremarkable and difficult to select when it comes tourney time as a result. Development, implies that you grow from season to season, Fox's teams have stagnated from an on the court standpoint. Plateauing as a bubble team is not acceptable.

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What's more funny is you bring football into a debate about basketball

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As it relates to fan excuses. That's apples to apples regardless of what sport we're talking about.

My comparison was no less valid than yours about someone in an entry level job being compared to having SEC game experience.

JJ Frazier and Yante Maten both made 1st team All-SEC. First off, congratulations to them both, they absolutely deserve it. Secondly, absolutely embarrassing we couldn't put together a better season with these two playing as well as they did. 2 of the top 5 or 6 players in the conference and we are the 8 seed heading into the conference tournament.

Yante Maten will finish as a 3 time all sec (2 first teams) and an sec POY and possibly an all American.

What a fricking stud. Absolute pleasure to watch and my favorite CBB player of all time

Twitters are out there that Yante was cleared to play. He's definitely practicing....

LINK

Fox just said after practice that barring any setback, Maten will go tomorrow vs UT