Started By
Message
re: OT- Medical Billing in Georgia
Posted on 6/8/23 at 10:42 am to meansonny
Posted on 6/8/23 at 10:42 am to meansonny
quote:
We have the worst system.
The answer is in asking the correct questions and not being driven by the politicians.
Single Care is not the correct answer
Privatization is not the answer
The correct answer is somewhere in the middle but working together does not enrich either D or R campaign coffers and corporate America has no interest in the actual citizen if they do not profit excessively.
0
Posted on 6/8/23 at 10:56 am to meansonny
quote:
This is basic economics.
This is basic capitalism.
Not really
True capitalism is a return to the robber barrons and the opposite of free markets. What we should be talking about is Game Theory and its application to economics and true fair trade. The problem is Public Choice was discovered and discussed after Game Theory was proposed and basically said that Game Theory should be optimized but a few with money and power have the ability to corrupt the system in their favor but at the expense of most of the citizens.
Posted on 6/8/23 at 11:01 am to Cheese Grits
quote:
True capitalism is a return to the robber barrons and the opposite of free markets
History proves otherwise.
The train monopolies lost grip with the expansion of highways.
The oil monopoly became irrelevant with the transition to gasoline powered vehicles (newer market with more competitors).
The blockbuster monopoly crashed at netflix/redox.
The phone monopolies would be extinct with cell phones.
The cable monopolies are dieing with streaming.
Evolution has a way of dispatching with your robber barrons.
Your game theory is currently controlled and manipulated in the halls of congress.
What was your health insurance deductible and out of pocket maximum prior to the Affordable Care Act?
Posted on 6/8/23 at 11:40 am to meansonny
quote:
History proves otherwise.
Really?
quote:
The train monopolies lost grip with the expansion of highways.
Perhaps you are unaware of a dude named Warren Buffet. At one time he owned only 4 stocks in his personal assets. Shocker was 1 was a railroad. Right now we have 4 corporate railroads in the USA. While not a single monopoly they are at least an oligopoly and have monopoly like powers and record profits.
quote:
The oil monopoly became irrelevant with the transition to gasoline powered vehicles (newer market with more competitors).
Standard Oil was declared a monopoly and broken up. The Seven Sisters emerged and have since merged with each other and are again monopolistic in their operations. While Exxon and Mobile were split in the original Standard Trust, the US government has allowed them to merge.
quote:
The blockbuster monopoly crashed at netflix/redox.
Does not compute. Real monopolies exist over decades and centuries. The Blockbuster guy just switched when video had maxed and started CarMax (where they charge the highest prices, and do not negotiate)
quote:
The phone monopolies would be extinct with cell phones.
Not really. AT&T was a virtual monopoly that was spilt into the baby Bells. I often think they allowed themselves to be broken up with the emergence of cell phones, especially in light of the history since. The Bells in the East have merged and become Verizon. The Bells in the South have merged and become SouthWesterrn Bell (who bought the old ATT name and became the new ATT) with ~ 46% of the US market. The Western Bells have merged and become T-Mobile.
quote:
The cable monopolies are dieing with streaming.
Really, or are they just shifting from selling cable to the more profitable ends (the actual backbone and content) where they are facing almost no outside competition while maximizing pricing moats by eliminating local jobs and tax issues (no local store means no property taxes that support cities).
quote:
Evolution has a way of dispatching with your robber barrons.
Not really. The US was the first place in pretty much the last several thousands of years with no form of primogeniture (generally inheritance by only the eldest male). We fled monarchies of the other counties and continents yet since the 1980's we are not evolving as you think but just returning to monarchies, only now they are faceless corporations instead of figured kids and queens.
Posted on 6/8/23 at 12:14 pm to Cheese Grits
I know history.
I understand that the government broke companies up.
But evolution of technology and innovation would have diminished the monopoly companies anyway (even without the government breaking them up).
My post includes examples where monopoly busting would not have been needed because of consumer shifts.
The government doesn't help anything. It only hurts.
I understand that the government broke companies up.
But evolution of technology and innovation would have diminished the monopoly companies anyway (even without the government breaking them up).
My post includes examples where monopoly busting would not have been needed because of consumer shifts.
The government doesn't help anything. It only hurts.
Posted on 6/8/23 at 2:48 pm to meansonny
Yeah fees are negotiated at the facility level and by geographic area. You and I could have different insurance plans, get the exact same procedure at the same hospital, and the reimbursement will be different. Will it be wildly different? Probably not, but it can be sometimes.
Posted on 6/9/23 at 6:31 am to meansonny
quote:
The government doesn't help anything. It only hurts.
Have you ever been a slave?
(to have the same rights as a cow)
Have you ever grown up in a company town?
(never able to get ahead no matter how hard you work)
Have you ever bought your way out of serving when your country drafted you?
(most Robber Barrons started this way)
Have you ever worked 80+ hours a week?
(not uncommon in the Robber Barron age)
Have you had to work a dangerous, life threatening job as a child?
(not uncommon in the Robber Barron age)
Have you been served food with fillers that can harm or kill you?
(meat was often spoiled and filled with things like sawdust for more profit)
The government as nursemaid in Socialism and Communism clearly does not work in practice as the equality preached is clearly more equal to some and less to the masses.
The "hands off" government of true capitalism clearly leads to a few (through power and wealth) to take advantage of their fellow citizens.
A good government should have fealty to those who enter the voting booth and not big government, big corporations, or big religion. We are not there because the system no longer works for the people. Based on human nature you do need government to incorporate the human in the equation as an asset just like land, money, resources, and intelligence.
Posted on 6/9/23 at 6:49 am to meansonny
quote:
I know history.
Clearly not
In 1920 a single company held a virtual monopoly for telephone service (AT&T)
All kinds of innovation / technology have occurred since
in 2020 a single company holds roughly 50% of the US market (AT&T) and 2 other companies (part of the original AT&T in Verizon and T-Mobile) hold almost all the rest.
In 100 years, we have 3 not 1 but nothing has changed except the names and the public perception that something has changed.
Prove me wrong
Look at Standard Oil, broken up?
Standard Oil New Jersey = Exxon Mobile
Standard Oil New York = Exxon Mobile
Standard Oil California = Chevron
Standard Oil Kenrtucky = Chevron
Standard Oil Ohio = Marathon
Standard Oil Indiana = Amoco (BP in 98')
Standard Oil Maryland = ConocoPhillips
Standard Oil Pennsylvania = Penzoil (Devon Energy / Royal Dutch Shell)
100 years of technology and innovation but none went out of business and all still going today (with lots of corporate welfare from the US government)
What has changed besides the names and the public perception?
Posted on 6/9/23 at 7:22 am to Cheese Grits
Illusion of choice
Just like in politics
Just like in politics
Posted on 6/9/23 at 7:28 am to Cheese Grits
quote:
Prove me wrong
Can I have the definition of a monopoly, please?
That should be enough.
I don't need country of origin, other homonyms, or use in a sentence.
Look at your post.
And the definition of monopoly. And again at your post.
Posted on 6/9/23 at 7:38 am to Cheese Grits
quote:
Have you ever been a slave?
No. But I have family members who were alive for Jim Crow laws (government solutions).
quote:
Have you ever grown up in a company town?
No. But I've moved when necessary. Thats what happens at 18 years old. Those towns tend to die these days.
quote:
Have you ever bought your way out of serving when your country drafted you?
I don't think there ever will be another draft.
I'm pretty sure laws permitted this (even encouraged it with the right donations).
quote:
Have you ever worked 80+ hours a week
Close to it. I paid my way through college and summers are short. I'd hold as many as 3 jobs to get as many hours as possible.
Edit to add that government regulations are why i couldnt get the number of hours at 1 or 2 employers (overtime/part time caps)
quote:
Have you been served food with fillers that can harm or kill you?
If I have, there is Morgan and Morgan. It has been argued with today's lawyers and insurance requirements that we could do without the fda.
All of your examples are weak. I've got to get some work done. But I'm sure I will get to them later.
This post was edited on 6/9/23 at 7:40 am
Posted on 6/9/23 at 8:08 am to deeprig9
It seems stupid but the anesthesiologist makes more because they have more responsibility. The ENT could possibly make your son deaf. The anesthesiologist can kill him.
Posted on 6/9/23 at 8:46 am to meansonny
quote:
I have family members who were alive for Jim Crow laws
Being old as dirt and am old enough to remember riding on trains, not planes or automobiles and my childhood had interactions with folks who actually had been slaves. I lived the majority of my life in one of the first free settlements after slavery was ruled illegal by mandate of the US government.
quote:
No.
So you have no first hand knowledge
quote:
I've moved when necessary. Thats what happens at 18 years old.
You see that through a modern lens, not with the reality of the actual age.
quote:
Those towns tend to die these days.
Because the government stepped in.
Origins: Traditional settings for company towns were for the most part where extractive industries existed– coal, metal mines, lumber — and had established a monopoly franchise. Dam sites and war-industry camps founded other company towns. Since company stores often had a monopoly in company towns, it was possible to pay in scrip (a term for any substitute for legal tender). Typically, a company town is isolated from neighbors and centered on a large production factory, such as a lumber or steel mill or an automobile plant; and the citizens of the town either work in the factory, work in one of the smaller businesses, or is a family member of someone who does.
How do you leave if you can never buy a car, a house, or have currency to move that is not accepted where you move to?
quote:
I don't think there ever will be another draft.
Point being is in the Civl War you could "buy" out if you had the money to do so. With family who have served when call since the French & Indian War to the current conflicts in the Middle East we have served and not shirked. World War I and World War II were actually Democratic in that wealthy and poor were equally likely to serve and action see action where their life was at risk. My uncle survived the Bataan death March, another uncle served in "The Hump" while most of the males served in some branch in some major theatre with honorable discharges for all.
quote:
I'm pretty sure laws permitted this (even encouraged it with the right donations).
You are correct, and since WWII we are heading back to this level of "no skin in the game" for the wealthy and powerful. I was a proud supporter of the elder Bush but had no respect for Jr for dodging. Trump went to a military school but when the time came chickened out from actual service. Clinton would rather smoke dope than serve so he is not a saint in my eyes either. Point being is if a draft is instituted (and it will if we have another global conflict, don't kid yourself) we are returning to the Robber Barron thinking for exclusions for some with wealth and power.
quote:
Close to it. I paid my way through college and summers are short. I'd hold as many as 3 jobs to get as many hours as possible.
I had a similar history. When I was young I worked in agriculture where minimum wage was about 1/2 of normal minimum wage and there was no overtime. To say I was dirt poor is not far from the mark but I was young and had a very strong work ethic and I got through it.
While I never worked a deep coal mine as a 6 year old I grew up around those who did and those who lost siblings in the mines before they were 18. The government stepped in and that is no longer legal. I do think modern kids have been pampered and we have gone the other way. They want to be the company president but do not want to start in the mail room to get there.
Perhaps the answer is somewhere in the middle and the far left and far right need to butt out and let the moderates set the narrative and policy. I do know that some of the greatest achievements in US history were built with the WPA (taught skills and created a solid tradesman class) which was a creation of the US government.
quote:
If I have, there is Morgan and Morgan.
Without the agencies and government how would you ever know? Do you remember the Pinto and its exploding gas tanks? I sure do, and the settlement was still less that what they saved building the car without fixing it. Do you really think 1/3 to 1/2 going to the lawyers and the rest that got the winning lottery ticket (probably at the cost of a loved one) is an efficient way to care for the citizens?
quote:
All of your examples are weak.
Weak to you because it conflicts with your preconceived notions of what history is and why we have some of the government "interference" that we do.
quote:
I've got to get some work done. But I'm sure I will get to them later.
I am old and retired so be happy if you have the time to continue the discussion.
As a person who lived though so much of the history that is being "rewritten" by the crazies in the far left and far right it is amazing how folks swallow it like pablum to babies.
Posted on 6/9/23 at 8:56 am to meansonny
quote:
Can I have the definition of a monopoly, please?
monopoly
m?-nop'?-le
noun
Exclusive control by one group of the means of producing or selling a commodity or service.
A company, group, or individual having exclusive control over a commercial activity.
A commodity or service so controlled.
AT&T controlled 100 years ago
AT&T (via AT&T, Verizon, T-Mobile) control today
Standard Oil controlled 100 years ago
Standard Oil controls (via its parts) today
If you splitting hair on the term monopoly, perhaps this word can be substituted for clarity.
oligopoly
ol"i-gop'?-le, o"li-
noun
A market condition in which sellers are so few that the actions of any one of them will materially affect price and have a measurable impact on competitors.
An economiccondition in which a small number of sellers exert control over the market of a commodity.
(economics) a market in which control over the supply of a commodity is in the hands of a small number of producers and each one can influence prices and affect competitors
Prior to the 1980's and the changes in laws to protect the citizens being weakened or eliminated we had 100's of years of government creating these laws to protect its citizens based on the realities (and resulting learning curve) of the country and basic human nature of some to exploit others.
You say my points are weak and that I do not understand but by your responses it seems you should look in the mirror for the reality and keep saying I am wrong or admitting some rose colored glasses may be affecting your own vision.
Posted on 6/9/23 at 10:32 am to Cheese Grits
I'm still too busy to get in the weeds on this.
But you can't claim monopolies when there are 2 or 3 players in the industry. That is direct contrast to monopoly. And antitrust busting falls apart in the courts when it isn't 1 monopoly.
Your argument is government legislation. And antitrust doesn't reach here.
Your points are weak.
For the government to institute anti slave legislation, the government had to change previous pro slave legislation.
To remove laws regarding draft, Jim Crow, etc, those very laws were produced by the government prior.
You'd have no point if the government had not been the root of the problem to begin.
As for situations where there were no federal laws protecting monopolies, I still hold that every monopoly would have collapsed on the power of innovation and evolution of consumers.
The government wasn't needed. And in some instances, innovation may have come quicker without busting up companies.
I will check in later.
But until then:
Tell me the laws the government helped where the government wasnt the root problem to begin with.
Tell me the monopoly that can survive time. How many companies in the dow Jones industrial average were in the original dow Jones industrial average in 1885.
Or you can believe me that there are none.
None going back to the 1929 stock crash.
Only 1 goes back beyond 50 years without ever being kicked off (I'm guessing that Proctor and Gamble has survived intact prior to your extended lifeline).
But you can't claim monopolies when there are 2 or 3 players in the industry. That is direct contrast to monopoly. And antitrust busting falls apart in the courts when it isn't 1 monopoly.
Your argument is government legislation. And antitrust doesn't reach here.
quote:
You say my points are weak
Your points are weak.
For the government to institute anti slave legislation, the government had to change previous pro slave legislation.
To remove laws regarding draft, Jim Crow, etc, those very laws were produced by the government prior.
You'd have no point if the government had not been the root of the problem to begin.
As for situations where there were no federal laws protecting monopolies, I still hold that every monopoly would have collapsed on the power of innovation and evolution of consumers.
The government wasn't needed. And in some instances, innovation may have come quicker without busting up companies.
I will check in later.
But until then:
Tell me the laws the government helped where the government wasnt the root problem to begin with.
Tell me the monopoly that can survive time. How many companies in the dow Jones industrial average were in the original dow Jones industrial average in 1885.
Or you can believe me that there are none.
None going back to the 1929 stock crash.
Only 1 goes back beyond 50 years without ever being kicked off (I'm guessing that Proctor and Gamble has survived intact prior to your extended lifeline).
Posted on 6/9/23 at 7:06 pm to Cheese Grits
quote:
quote:
I've moved when necessary. Thats what happens at 18 years old.
You see that through a modern lens, not with the reality of the actual age.
Believe it or not. But there are books. And there have always been transients in this country's history. This was fundamental to westward expansion. Fundamental to surviving economic crashes. Some of the most famous pieces of American literature are about rolling stones that gather no moss.
My lens is quite broad and well read.
quote:
How do you leave if you can never buy a car,
There were no cars in the gilded age. People walked. Took rafts. Wagons. Trains.
If you are referencing a time with cars, then you are even more incorrect as the great depression created a huge diaspora of people. It was literally any means necessary. Town to town.
quote:
With family who have served when call since the French & Indian War to the current conflicts in the Middle East we have served and not shirked. World War I and World War II were actually Democratic in that wealthy and poor were equally likely to serve and action see action where their life was at risk. My uncle survived the Bataan death March, another uncle served in "The Hump" while most of the males served in some branch in some major theatre with honorable discharges for all.
OK. So the government had laws that allowed substitutes. And then those laws were removed. And you want to pat the government on the head for a job well done?
quote:
I was a proud supporter of the elder Bush but had no respect for Jr for dodging. Trump went to a military school but when the time came chickened out from actual service. Clinton would rather smoke dope than serve so he is not a saint in my eyes either. Point being is if a draft is instituted (and it will if we have another global conflict, don't kid yourself) we are returning to the Robber Barron thinking for exclusions for some with wealth and power.
Bush was honorably discharged from the Air Force National Guard. You can retain and use every right to be disgusted by him. But at the end of the day, he was honorably discharged (no individual gets the right to choose that. It was chosen for him). Your anger probably needs to be spread around to very high level authorities.
quote:
quote:
If I have, there is Morgan and Morgan.
Without the agencies and government how would you ever know? Do you remember the Pinto and its exploding gas tanks? I sure do, and the settlement was still less that what they saved building the car without fixing it. Do you really think 1/3 to 1/2 going to the lawyers and the rest that got the winning lottery ticket (probably at the cost of a loved one) is an efficient way to care for the citizens?
Camp Lejeune. Mesothelioma. Asbestos. Big tobacco. If there is money to be made in litigation, an attorney will find it.
I won't disagree that child labor laws are good for the welfare of the country.
But they literally are not needed right now. An attorney will find every potential lawsuit and claim punitive damages. Insurance requirements are so strict (and premiums expensive). They are reminders that good policy and good behavior can protect good fortunes.
quote:
Perhaps the answer is somewhere in the middle and the far left and far right need to butt out and let the moderates set the narrative and policy
When in doubt, do not legislate. Every action has an equal and opposite reaction. I argue that there are no longer any unintended consequences. There are just people who want to watch the world burn. And so they are supportive of the dumbest laws in the history of man.
quote:
I do know that some of the greatest achievements in US history were built with the WPA
Lol.
That is hilarious.
The anti business poster is touting the accomplishments of government based employment.
There is nothing more communist than someone who proclaims loyalty to the working man but has disdain for the employers who pay to shelter, feed, and house his family.
You can have your WPA.
There are 115,000,000 people who are not employed by the government in this country. And all you can focus on in 2023 are the "Robber barrons"? Wow
quote:
As a person who lived though so much of the history that is being "rewritten" by the crazies in the far left and far right it is amazing how folks swallow it like pablum to babies.
Try reading more books.
This post was edited on 6/9/23 at 10:10 pm
Page 3 of 3
Latest Georgia News
Popular
Back to top
Follow SECRant for SEC Football News