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re: A new HC - what are our expectations?
Posted on 11/6/15 at 10:58 am to DawgsLife
Posted on 11/6/15 at 10:58 am to DawgsLife
quote:
It's exactly the same thing. In both cases the coach is leaving the program.
When they are leaving is the big difference. One is already gone with a new guy in place, while the other is still the head coach with no 4 year commitment. Why do you refuse to talk about Richt's first class?
Nearly every traditional recruiting power maintains a strong class in a coaching change. I bet each had several guys say they want to play for the soon to be gone coach, but they end up sticking around when they meet the new one. Also, sometimes new guys become interested in the new coach more than the previous one.
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Posted on 11/6/15 at 11:00 am to djsdawg
quote:
Uga 2001 class proves you wrong as do many other examples
Don't misunderstand me...I am not saying the entire class would be decimated...but there have been plenty of recruits that have said they are coming because they want to play for Mark Richt. I doubt many said the same about Jim Donnan. a BIG difference. But to say that it will not affect our class is very shortsighted, in my opinion.
Posted on 11/6/15 at 11:04 am to djsdawg
quote:
When they are leaving is the big difference.
True...but the recruits were jumping ship in the offseason when the coach said he might only stay another 2 or three years.
quote:
Why do you refuse to talk about Richt's first class?
I don't refuse to talk about it. I just doubt many recruits were coming because they wanted to play for Jim Donnan. Mark Richt is a different story. Several of our top recruits have said plainly that they are coming to play for Mark Richt. The position of our greatest need is one of those.
Look, we aren't getting anywhere with this. You won't convince me and I won't convince you. That's ok, because right now we only have our opinions to back us up. IF Richt is fired or leaves we will see for ourselves. Each of us trying to sway the other will not affect the class in any way.
Posted on 11/6/15 at 11:06 am to DawgsLife
quote:
Don't misunderstand me...I am not saying the entire class would be decimated...but there have been plenty of recruits that have said they are coming because they want to play for Mark Richt. I doubt many said the same about Jim Donnan. a BIG difference. But to say that it will not affect our class is very shortsighted, in my opinion.
It doesnt really matter what they say now. All that matters is what they do later once they meet the new guy, and a vast majority will end up sticking with the school. History backs this up.
Posted on 11/6/15 at 11:11 am to DawgsLife
quote:
True...but the recruits were jumping ship in the offseason when the coach said he might only stay another 2 or three years.
Recruits want stability. A hot seat like Richt is on and a statement like Spurrier made don't provide that.
quote:
Several of our top recruits have said plainly that they are coming to play for Mark Richt.
But they haven't said they won't come to UGA if he is gone, which is what you are assuming.
Posted on 11/6/15 at 11:11 am to djsdawg
quote:
It doesnt really matter what they say now. All that matters is what they do later once they meet the new guy, and a vast majority will end up sticking with the school. History backs this up.
Then tell that to Kyle Davis and Marlon Character, not me. If you check and see what Michigan has done lately in recruiting...Texas....USC has fallen off before last year...so many top programs were not getting the top classes like once did. Again....neither of us know for sure, and if I did a lot of research I bet I can find many classes that have fallen apart after a coaching change. The thing is, you have to know what they were doing before the coaching change and then how they ended up to make the argument....and neither of us know how many in the 2001 class committed after Richt took over.
Shoot, Florida did not have their typically strong class last year after Muschamp left.
Posted on 11/6/15 at 11:14 am to djsdawg
quote:
. All that matters is what they do later once they meet the new guy, and a vast majority will end up sticking with the school. History backs this up.
Maybe, maybe not. Florida finished 8th in the nation in recruiting in 2014 with Muschamp, and they finished 21st after their coaching change last year.
This post was edited on 11/6/15 at 11:16 am
Posted on 11/6/15 at 11:19 am to djsdawg
quote:
Recruits want stability.
So you are arguing if we fire Richt and lose Schottenheimer and Pruitt we are displaying stability?
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A hot seat like Richt is on and a statement like Spurrier made don't provide that.
Which is exactly my point. Maybe we are saying the same thing, and I am not being very eloquent about it.
quote:
But they haven't said they won't come to UGA if he is gone, which is what you are assuming.
You are correct. But that is the insinuation, is it not? You just made the point that they like stability. Changing a coaching staff is hardly stability. If a coach is coming to play for a particular coach...whether it is Richt, or Pruitt...if that coach leaves, you can expect to lose some recruits.
Posted on 11/6/15 at 11:30 am to DawgsLife
quote:And every UF fan alive would make that trade 100 more times if necessary. McElwain is getting more out of that class and Muschamp's classes than Muschamp ever could.
Maybe, maybe not. Florida finished 8th in the nation in recruiting in 2014 with Muschamp, and they finished 21st after their coaching change last year.
Not saying Richt is Muschamp (though Schotty's offense is eerily reminiscent and Richt owns a decent part of that for a number of reasons), just that getting the recruiting class isn't the end all be all.
The other problem regarding stability is if we have to replace either coordinator, no coordinator worth having is going to want to come with the fear of a house cleaning. If Richt is back next year that's gonna be a constant theme again because we will lose multiple games playing a freshman QB and replacing a lot of the OL (even if they aren't good this year either). And I think we'd lose several games even with a new coach, but there will be much much more negativity if it's Richt losing. Not necessarily fair but it is what it is.
Posted on 11/6/15 at 11:34 am to DawgsLife
quote:
Then tell that to Kyle Davis and Marlon Character, not me. If you check and see what Michigan has done lately in recruiting...Texas....USC has fallen off before last year...so many top programs were not getting the top classes like once did. Again....neither of us know for sure, and if I did a lot of research I bet I can find many classes that have fallen apart after a coaching change. The thing is, you have to know what they were doing before the coaching change and then how they ended up to make the argument....and neither of us know how many in the 2001 class committed after Richt took over.
Michigan went from 10th in 2007 to 8th in 2008.
UT went from 35th in 2008 to 10th in 2009.
Texas went form 24th in 2013 to 20th in 2014.
AU went from 21st in 2008 to 20th in 2009.
ND went from 21st in 2009 to 14th in 2010.
USC went from 4th in 2009 to 1st in 2010.
AnM went from 27th in 2011 to 15th in 2012.
OSU went from 11th in 2011 to 4th in 2012.
This proves recruiting didnt suffer from the coaching changes.
Posted on 11/6/15 at 11:34 am to DawgsLife
quote:
neither of us know how many in the 2001 class committed after Richt took over.
We lost 2 guys and gained:
DJ schockley
David Pollack
Gerald Anderson
Greg Blue
Robert Geathers
Fred Gibson
Thomas Davis
Posted on 11/6/15 at 11:37 am to DawgsLife
quote:
You just made the point that they like stability. Changing a coaching staff is hardly stability.
A brand new coach is more stable than a hot seat coach or a coach that is over 70 and saying he is about to retire soon.
Posted on 11/6/15 at 11:48 am to djsdawg
quote:
Pollack and Fred Gibson
Huh?We were in on Pollack from the get go along with Gison but both waivered after the coaching change and we still had to throw in a Tahoe to get hin away from UF.
We didn't "gain" either of those guys.
The only one you might be right is Davis and maybe Shockey.
This post was edited on 11/6/15 at 1:36 pm
Posted on 11/6/15 at 11:55 am to djsdawg
Where exactly is your starting point?Pre-season?Mid-Season?End of Season?
The recruiting rankings are in flux throught those periods as you know.
The recruiting rankings are in flux throught those periods as you know.
Posted on 11/6/15 at 1:33 pm to TMDawg
quote:
And every UF fan alive would make that trade 100 more times if necessary.
Absolutely...no doubt they would. But, SURELY you aren't going to compare Muschamp to Richt. One truely was a dumpster fire....the other averages 10 wins a year.
quote:
Not saying Richt is Muschamp (though Schotty's offense is eerily reminiscent and Richt owns a decent part of that for a number of reasons),
I'm curious...what reasons? I mean, a couple of years ago we had far more injuries and less talent than now, yet our offense was firing on all cylanders. Bobo is gone (Yet another coach many on this board complained about ad nauseum) and look what we have. Yet somehow all you guys seem to think it will be different this time.
What's the old saying? Insanity is doing the same things and expecting different results? So, since we ran Bobo off (or many on here wanted him gone and he is gone now) and got crap for our offense if we fire Richt we will now get much better results, right?
quote:
The other problem regarding stability is if we have to replace either coordinator, no coordinator worth having is going to want to come with the fear of a house cleaning.
Yet if we fire everyone and run everybody off, somehow we will show everybody how stable we are?
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because we will lose multiple games playing a freshman QB
So, what happens if we start Lambert next year? We win more?
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And I think we'd lose several games even with a new coach, but there will be much much more negativity if it's Richt losing.
Yep. Logical, right?
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Not necessarily fair but it is what it is.
True.
Posted on 11/6/15 at 1:35 pm to djsdawg
quote:
Michigan went from 10th in 2007 to 8th in 2008. UT went from 35th in 2008 to 10th in 2009. Texas went form 24th in 2013 to 20th in 2014. AU went from 21st in 2008 to 20th in 2009. ND went from 21st in 2009 to 14th in 2010. USC went from 4th in 2009 to 1st in 2010. AnM went from 27th in 2011 to 15th in 2012. OSU went from 11th in 2011 to 4th in 2012. This proves recruiting didnt suffer from the coaching changes.
No it doesn't. Almost all of those programs got solid, proven coaches that everybody was extremely excited about. Georgia has NEVER done that. NEVER. No Urban Meyer. no Jim Harbaugh. No Charlie Strong. Except for those schools look at the rankings....not exactly impressive for top of the line schools.
Posted on 11/6/15 at 1:44 pm to DawgsLife
quote:
No it doesn't. Almost all of those programs got solid, proven coaches that everybody was extremely excited about. Georgia has NEVER done that. NEVER. No Urban Meyer. no Jim Harbaugh. No Charlie Strong. Except for those schools look at the rankings....not exactly impressive for top of the line schools.
We have hired 4 coaches since 1964 so it's hard to say there is any pattern in UGA hiring practices for head football coaches. Goff was a product of everyone saying well we need to hire one of "Dooley's boys", Donnan was a national champion as an assistant and head coach, Richt was one of the hottest up and coming assistants from what has the model program of the 1990s. He was the Kirby Smart of his era if you will.
Posted on 11/6/15 at 1:45 pm to DawgsLife
quote:One reason being the fact that Richt hired Schotty, a guy with a below average (being nice) track record everywhere he has been.
I'm curious...what reasons? I mean, a couple of years ago we had far more injuries and less talent than now, yet our offense was firing on all cylanders. Bobo is gone (Yet another coach many on this board complained about ad nauseum) and look what we have. Yet somehow all you guys seem to think it will be different this time.
Another is ending up in the QB situation we are in. We won't have an all star every year, but to not even have a serviceable QB is bad. It's not like Ramsey suddenly struggled in games this year.
Years of mismanaging OL recruiting haven't helped either.
And regarding Bobo, I'm right there with you. I wasn't a huge fan early on but he developed into a hell of an OC and I was one that defended him a good bit.
Maybe Richt got comfortable with Bobo and the fact that Bobo was able to run the offense and approached it the same way with Schotty and didn't realize Schotty would be as bad as he has been?
Posted on 11/6/15 at 3:38 pm to RD Dawg
quote:
quote:
Pollack and Fred Gibson
Huh?We were in on Pollack from the get go along with Gison but both waivered after the coaching change and we still had to throw in a Tahoe to get hin away from UF.
We didn't "gain" either of those guys.
The only one you might be right is Davis and maybe Shockey.
Every single guy listed picked Uga after we fired our coach.
Posted on 11/6/15 at 3:45 pm to djsdawg
quote:
Every single guy listed pick Ga after we fired our coach
So what?at least 3 of them picked Ga before we fired our coach.Once again,splitting hairs as usual.
Heard Pollack on the radio discuss his entire recruiting process with us.
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