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Since it appears he is in play at Florida, would you guys rather have Kelly or Gruden?
Posted on 11/14/17 at 4:28 pm
Posted on 11/14/17 at 4:28 pm
Kelly has proven to be able to win in college, but there are legitimate concerns that his offense was kind of "figured out" by the end of his tenure and that his program never produced guys at the LOS who could win in a league like the SEC (a legitimate concern IMHO). Then of course there is the NCAA baggage.
Gruden is Gruden. Big name, great resume, hella smart football guy who has won a Super Bowl. A lot of the rantard stuff about him not being able to recruit are laughable. As much as you don't want to hear it (though you should), I look at him as a recruiter like I looked at Avery Johnson. He'd never recruited a day in his life, but anybody with a brain knew he had the personality and ability to do it. Kids knew who he was. And boom, he's recruiting the shite out of kids. Gruden has all that plus a better coach background, and he's able to recruit to a bigger name than Johnson in basketball. However, there is something to the unknown of being able to coach and develop 17 year olds, especially for a guy with the reputation and track record of not being great with young players at the NFL level.
So, long story short, is there any reasonably available coach (like Kelly or Stoops) that you'd rather have than Gruden?
Gruden is Gruden. Big name, great resume, hella smart football guy who has won a Super Bowl. A lot of the rantard stuff about him not being able to recruit are laughable. As much as you don't want to hear it (though you should), I look at him as a recruiter like I looked at Avery Johnson. He'd never recruited a day in his life, but anybody with a brain knew he had the personality and ability to do it. Kids knew who he was. And boom, he's recruiting the shite out of kids. Gruden has all that plus a better coach background, and he's able to recruit to a bigger name than Johnson in basketball. However, there is something to the unknown of being able to coach and develop 17 year olds, especially for a guy with the reputation and track record of not being great with young players at the NFL level.
So, long story short, is there any reasonably available coach (like Kelly or Stoops) that you'd rather have than Gruden?
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Posted on 11/14/17 at 4:36 pm to SummerOfGeorge
Maybe I'm just too deep into this but give me Gruden.
IMO
1. He will recruit better than Chip
2. He will have a better staff than Chip
3. He's still a bigger name than Chip
Also, lol at anyone that thinks Gruden will be running an archaic offense that worked in the NFL a decade ago. Gruden has said before that he routinely updates his playbook even now and he would run what he calls a "power hybrid spread".
IMO
1. He will recruit better than Chip
2. He will have a better staff than Chip
3. He's still a bigger name than Chip
Also, lol at anyone that thinks Gruden will be running an archaic offense that worked in the NFL a decade ago. Gruden has said before that he routinely updates his playbook even now and he would run what he calls a "power hybrid spread".
Posted on 11/14/17 at 4:40 pm to David Ricky
The Gruden thing would be fascinating. I know I've said it before and it isn't a perfect analogy, but it really does remind me of the Avery to Alabama in basketball thing - but with a higher ceiling due to the coach and the program. You have an idea in theory, but it would all be so new and different that you couldn't predict any real specifics.
I'm rooting for my "Make the SEC Fun Again" scenario
- Chip Kelly to Florida
- Jon Gruden to Tennessee
- Mike Leach to Arkansas
- Bill Clark to Ole Miss
- Jimbo Fisher to Texas A&M
That's exactly how I would describe our offense. You can't have it, sorry.
I'm rooting for my "Make the SEC Fun Again" scenario
- Chip Kelly to Florida
- Jon Gruden to Tennessee
- Mike Leach to Arkansas
- Bill Clark to Ole Miss
- Jimbo Fisher to Texas A&M
quote:
he would run what he calls a "power hybrid spread".
That's exactly how I would describe our offense. You can't have it, sorry.
This post was edited on 11/14/17 at 4:41 pm
Posted on 11/14/17 at 4:41 pm to David Ricky
I will say that Gruden is the riskier of the two BUT I believe he has higher upside, if that makes sense.
Posted on 11/14/17 at 4:45 pm to David Ricky
quote:
I will say that Gruden is the riskier of the two BUT I believe he has higher upside, if that makes sense.
I think they're just different but could be a lot a like in terms of unknowns.
Gruden is a wide open unknown, but not in a "who the hell is he" way but in a "how will the things we know about him transition into college football in 2017" way. I mean I guess it could all unravel in a Bill Callahan type way, but I think the "worst case" scenario is that he ends up like Harbaugh to this point and averages 9-3 and people lose their minds because of the expectation level.
Chip Kelly may have been in CFB, but he was coaching in the Pac 10 at a school 750 miles from where it recruited most of it's players. He ran a system that was revolutionary but now is pretty mainstream. His player type was one that even he says would not win in our league. However, he's smart as hell and I guarantee that he, much like Gruden, has been planning his return for the last 2 years and has made changes to adapt. And all of a sudden he's the coach at the flagship University in the state of Florida. I could see Kelly winning big but I could see it all kind of blowing up, too.
Both of them would be freaking fascinating to watch play out.
This post was edited on 11/14/17 at 4:47 pm
Posted on 11/14/17 at 5:22 pm to SummerOfGeorge
I will preface with this: I think Kelly is a great coach and will crush at UF if that's where he ends up. I posted awhile back that I don't really like the idea of Chip Kelly at VOLS even though he is a proven winner. I don't like his offense, defense, and he seems like a smug prick. And lastly, I really don't think he'd fit in Knoxville.
That said, I will take Gruden. Definitely a chance on whether he can make the adjustment and be windy successful, but he would have no problem recruiting and would still win a bunch of games.
Aside from Gruden, I would love to have Gary Patterson though I am not sure if that's realistic. Last, Scott Frost is going to be a star somewhere...would be glad with that hire.
Another bargain bin hire and I will not waste my time watching games any longer.
That said, I will take Gruden. Definitely a chance on whether he can make the adjustment and be windy successful, but he would have no problem recruiting and would still win a bunch of games.
Aside from Gruden, I would love to have Gary Patterson though I am not sure if that's realistic. Last, Scott Frost is going to be a star somewhere...would be glad with that hire.
Another bargain bin hire and I will not waste my time watching games any longer.
Posted on 11/14/17 at 5:33 pm to David Ricky
quote:I will say the potential staff names I’ve seen have not been appealing. That said, it’s hard to go on what little we know.
2. He will have a better staff than Chip
I agree with points 1 and 3, but 2 is the key. He has the potential to put together one of the best staffs in the country.
This post was edited on 11/14/17 at 5:34 pm
Posted on 11/14/17 at 5:36 pm to Robert Goulet
quote:
And lastly, I really don't think he'd fit in Knoxville.
For better or worse, Knoxville loves big personalities. We want coaches who are larger than life. Summitt, Pearl, Majors, Fulmer, Gruden etc. all fit that description.
Introverted and prickly doesn't cut it with us and even worse: our media eats the ones we've had like that alive. We expect our coaches to be star personalities as much as we expect them to be star coaches.
Knoxville lives and breathes Bread and Circus.
This post was edited on 11/14/17 at 5:39 pm
Posted on 11/14/17 at 5:37 pm to Robert Goulet
Offense was 8th, 1st, 3rd, 2nd in ppg.
Defense was 51st, 12th, 52nd, 25th in ppg.
Average margin of 12.3, 28.3, 21.5, 28.
3 out of 4 years, his average point margin was 3+ TDs. 2 out of 4 it was 4+ TDs.
The offense speaks for itself.
Considering the amount of time that defense was on the field, that's pretty damn stellar. I'd be interested in points per play ranking, cause I'm sure it'd be even higher. I'd take his defenses over Shoop's, lol.
I do agree that he would not fit culturally in East Tennessee. I also agree he's a smug prick, but I don't give a shite about that if he wins football games.
Defense was 51st, 12th, 52nd, 25th in ppg.
Average margin of 12.3, 28.3, 21.5, 28.
3 out of 4 years, his average point margin was 3+ TDs. 2 out of 4 it was 4+ TDs.
The offense speaks for itself.
Considering the amount of time that defense was on the field, that's pretty damn stellar. I'd be interested in points per play ranking, cause I'm sure it'd be even higher. I'd take his defenses over Shoop's, lol.
I do agree that he would not fit culturally in East Tennessee. I also agree he's a smug prick, but I don't give a shite about that if he wins football games.
This post was edited on 11/14/17 at 5:38 pm
Posted on 11/14/17 at 5:44 pm to InVolNerable
Never said he didn't have a good offense or defense, just that I don't like them. He would definitely win games, really no doubt about that. However, I don't think he will have as gaudy of numbers in the SEC as he has in the PAC.
I mean, I hear what you're saying, but I think it does sort of matter if he's likable. This is a really terrible comparison, but i remember Billy Gillespie at UK...really good coach but hated the fan interaction and all the ancillary duties.
Certainly winning games is most important, but it doesn't stop there.
Edit: I agree with what Prof posted for the most part. The job requires a lot.
I mean, I hear what you're saying, but I think it does sort of matter if he's likable. This is a really terrible comparison, but i remember Billy Gillespie at UK...really good coach but hated the fan interaction and all the ancillary duties.
Certainly winning games is most important, but it doesn't stop there.
Edit: I agree with what Prof posted for the most part. The job requires a lot.
This post was edited on 11/14/17 at 5:46 pm
Posted on 11/14/17 at 5:56 pm to SummerOfGeorge
I think a Kelley hire would be terrible. His offense ran great in the PAC12 with light defenses and average speed on the defensive front 7. Auburn had 11 tackles behind the line of scrimmage on the Oregon speedster backs and QB.
His losses at Oregon were to Auburn, Oregon St., USC, UCLA, Stanford, Ohio State, LSU, and Arizona. all teams that had strong D-lines and speedy LBs. He only coached as Oregon HC 4 years before jumping to the NFL.
His losses at Oregon were to Auburn, Oregon St., USC, UCLA, Stanford, Ohio State, LSU, and Arizona. all teams that had strong D-lines and speedy LBs. He only coached as Oregon HC 4 years before jumping to the NFL.
Posted on 11/14/17 at 6:29 pm to Robert Goulet
quote:
I think Kelly is a great coach and will crush at UF if that's where he ends up. I posted awhile back that I don't really like the idea of Chip Kelly at VOLS even though he is a proven winner. I don't like his offense, defense, and he seems like a smug prick. And lastly, I really don't think he'd fit in Knoxville.
Totally agree. Most SEC schools would be bad fits for him. Florida is a great fit for him. He's got a lot of Spurrier in him, just in a New England way and not a East Tennessee way.
This post was edited on 11/14/17 at 6:33 pm
Posted on 11/14/17 at 6:32 pm to AlaCowboy
quote:
I think a Kelley hire would be terrible. His offense ran great in the PAC12 with light defenses and average speed on the defensive front 7. Auburn had 11 tackles behind the line of scrimmage on the Oregon speedster backs and QB.
His losses at Oregon were to Auburn, Oregon St., USC, UCLA, Stanford, Ohio State, LSU, and Arizona. all teams that had strong D-lines and speedy LBs. He only coached as Oregon HC 4 years before jumping to the NFL.
I think he would 100% adjust his program model, and the personel available in recruiting would allow it at Florida. I've seen people note as much when they have talked to him about college.
I've really warmed up to him after watching him just a little bit on ESPN. That guy loves football and is smart as shite.
Posted on 11/14/17 at 6:34 pm to SummerOfGeorge
quote:
Totally agree. Most SEC schools would be bad fits for him. Florida is a great fit for him. He's got a lot of Spurrier in him, just in a New England way and not a East Tennessee way.
Definitely has NO IDEA about any mountain damn values.
Posted on 11/14/17 at 6:39 pm to Robert Goulet
quote:
Definitely has NO IDEA about any mountain damn values.
The guy is born and raised in New Hampshire, though. Different backwoods but backwoods nontheless.
Posted on 11/14/17 at 6:44 pm to SummerOfGeorge
I don't think that really matters. People would've said Pearl wasn't a fit just based on where he's from and his religion but it's hard to find a guy who fit in better than Pearl did.
It's a personality thing more than a cultural, religious, or geographic thing, imo.
It's a personality thing more than a cultural, religious, or geographic thing, imo.
Posted on 11/14/17 at 7:06 pm to SummerOfGeorge
Gruden next question
Posted on 11/14/17 at 7:07 pm to SummerOfGeorge
I would take Gruden over a 55 year old Nick Saban
Posted on 11/14/17 at 7:53 pm to AlaCowboy
quote:
Auburn, Oregon St., USC, UCLA, Stanford, Ohio State, LSU, and Arizona
Not sure how you managed to frick this up that badly since he only had 7 losses (not 8 like you've listed), but he never lost to UCLA, Oregon State, or Arizona.
He lost to Boise State, Stanford (2x), Ohio State, Auburn, LSU, USC. Every one of them finished the season ranked in the top 6 except for the first Stanford team, which still finished 8-5.
Posted on 11/14/17 at 9:11 pm to Prof
quote:
I don't think that really matters. People would've said Pearl wasn't a fit just based on where he's from and his religion but it's hard to find a guy who fit in better than Pearl did.
It's a personality thing more than a cultural, religious, or geographic thing, imo.
In the end, in football, all that matters is what's on the field IMHO. If things like personality and things are being debated chances are stuff on the field isn't where people want it.
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