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re: 4* QB Carson Beck commits to UGA
Posted on 3/5/19 at 6:21 am to RD Dawg
Posted on 3/5/19 at 6:21 am to RD Dawg
quote:
Its ALL about arm strength and 40 times
Nope. It’s all about arm strength and size. They can’t measure intangibles, where Fromm has a clear and distinct advantage.
How do you think Josh Allen got drafted in the top 10 overall? He’s 6’6 240 lb.
And he played at WYOMING against that level competition. Franks and Josh Allen are the exact same size, exact same weight, and both have freaky cannons for an arm. And look up his numbers. Franks plays much better competition and put up better numbers.
There’s a reason so many NFL steams draft busts at quarterback. It’s because they take guys like Feleipe for the physical tools over guys like Fromm with the intangibles. I guarantee you Feleipe will be a first round pick in the NFL draft next year IF he matches his production from last year. Not even improve, just match it.
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Posted on 3/5/19 at 7:06 am to atlgator
You are high. Once again, name any price and I’ll bet you that Franks never gets drafted in the first round.
Posted on 3/5/19 at 7:19 am to atlgator
Not sure Allen is a good comparison. He struggled as a junior after he lost all 3 of his top wrs, but the nfl knows he did much better as a sophomore when he has those wrs. Also, he didn’t feast on overmatched non con teams like franks did, and stink otherwise, which you haven’t acknowledged about his 2018.
This post was edited on 3/5/19 at 7:21 am
Posted on 3/5/19 at 8:08 am to RD Dawg
I'm not going to get into a semantics debate with a bulldawg. Tools and talents are interchangeable in football vernacular. One is rarely used. The other is drooled out of every draft analysts mouth because he can't find a thesaurus. Do you know which is which?
That is a huge piece of it. Without the hour limitations that are restricted in college, learning defenses, footwork, and accuracy can be drilled. Drills don't always lead to success. But it is very possible that players continue to improve at 21, 22, 23, and 24 years old without restrictions on their time. So the 40 times, height, and arm strength are much more important than in college. A qb can be efficient in college because defenses are not efficient in college. As you said... look at Franks success outside the SEC. Well, the professional defenses are much more efficient than in the SEC. Throwing lanes are tighter, passing windows are smaller and close quicker. A weaker arm has to release the ball much sooner and a good/great college efficiency can turn around real quick without the proper "tools". Height and arm "talent" are real drivers for what talent scouts need from their QB. Without it, mobility, quickness, and footwork becomes exponentially more important to create opportunities.
Franks will get drafted as a "talent flyer". Late round pick on his tools alone to see what a QB guru or OC can do with him. Same as Mett. He might have the same results as Mett. More often than not, accuracy doesn't improve with the pro drills. At least not with the pressure of a dominant NFL 4 man pass rush.
quote:
Its ALL about arm strength and 40 times.
That is a huge piece of it. Without the hour limitations that are restricted in college, learning defenses, footwork, and accuracy can be drilled. Drills don't always lead to success. But it is very possible that players continue to improve at 21, 22, 23, and 24 years old without restrictions on their time. So the 40 times, height, and arm strength are much more important than in college. A qb can be efficient in college because defenses are not efficient in college. As you said... look at Franks success outside the SEC. Well, the professional defenses are much more efficient than in the SEC. Throwing lanes are tighter, passing windows are smaller and close quicker. A weaker arm has to release the ball much sooner and a good/great college efficiency can turn around real quick without the proper "tools". Height and arm "talent" are real drivers for what talent scouts need from their QB. Without it, mobility, quickness, and footwork becomes exponentially more important to create opportunities.
Franks will get drafted as a "talent flyer". Late round pick on his tools alone to see what a QB guru or OC can do with him. Same as Mett. He might have the same results as Mett. More often than not, accuracy doesn't improve with the pro drills. At least not with the pressure of a dominant NFL 4 man pass rush.
Posted on 3/5/19 at 10:31 am to djsdawg
quote:
Not sure Allen is a good comparison. He struggled as a junior after he lost all 3 of his top wrs, but the nfl knows he did much better as a sophomore when he has those wrs. Also, he didn’t feast on overmatched non con teams like franks did, and stink otherwise, which you haven’t acknowledged about his 2018.
Allen’s entire schedule at Wyoming is the equivalent of Franks in the non conference. He struggled early but South Carolina, Michigan, and FSU has SEC caliber talent on defense and he was able to put up numbers against all of them.
Also, for comparisons sake:
Sophomore Josh Allen 373 passes 56% completion percentage, 3203 yards, 28 TD, 15 INT, 142 carries for 523 rushing yards and 7 rushing TD
Sophomore Feleipe Franks 322 passes 58.4% completion percentage, 2457 yards, 24 TD, 6 INT, 110 carries for 350 rushing yards and 7 rushing TD
Allen was the #7 overall pick. Feleipe was more accurate. He is going to get drafted a lot higher than you think.
Posted on 3/5/19 at 10:43 am to atlgator
Franks reminds me of Ryan Mallett simply throwing the ball, I think his main problem is confidence in his abilities which is a major problem.
Posted on 3/5/19 at 11:00 am to atlgator
You are choosing to ignore a lot to convince yourself here:
1. Allen was playing a mountain west schedule with a mountain west team. Probably included some bad weather here or there.
2. South Carolina had an injury decimated defense that wasn’t special to begin with, FSU was terrible even by acc standards, and Michigan was missing 2 first rounder all Americans along with their mojo that was stolen by urban. Franks didn’t even pass well vs Michigan.
3. His sec passer rating was barely better than it was in 2017. It was 9th best in the sec and didn’t even have to face bama.
1. Allen was playing a mountain west schedule with a mountain west team. Probably included some bad weather here or there.
2. South Carolina had an injury decimated defense that wasn’t special to begin with, FSU was terrible even by acc standards, and Michigan was missing 2 first rounder all Americans along with their mojo that was stolen by urban. Franks didn’t even pass well vs Michigan.
3. His sec passer rating was barely better than it was in 2017. It was 9th best in the sec and didn’t even have to face bama.
This post was edited on 3/5/19 at 11:10 am
Posted on 3/5/19 at 6:18 pm to atlgator
quote:
Nope. It’s all about arm strength and size.
You're missing a massive part of this equation in why Franks isn't NFL QB material:
His decision making/mental capacity as well as his vision. None of which can be considered elite, and I'd even argue he struggles to be average in those parts. He has a lot of time to make up those problems, but there's no doubt raw physical talent can get you drafted -- Tebow was. But where is he now?
If you can't read defenses, you don't play in the NFL for any extended period of time and I can't name a game where Franks wasn't routinely: Off-target, making badly timed throws and missing wide open receivers. It's not that he does this once or twice a game, it's that it's so common that even coach Mullen can just smile when he throws it directly to a Georgia defender to a receiver who is literally covered high and low.
He's not getting drafted until he fixes those problems.
Also:
Michigan: 173 yards, one passing TD.
FSU: 254 yards. About 4 yards over FSU's average.
SCAR: His "comeback" game! 161 yards passing.
Those are extremely pedestrian numbers, two of which are horrible in the secondary. I'll give him Michigan, but 173 yards passing is nothing to write home about.
P.S.: No hard feelings, man, you're a true Gator fan and one of the most positive people I know -- but this is one of those things where Franks needs to really prove himself.
This post was edited on 3/5/19 at 6:29 pm
Posted on 3/5/19 at 7:00 pm to StrawsDrawnAtRandom
quote:
decision making/mental capacity as well as his vision. None of which can be considered elite
I agree. BUT it doesn’t matter. NFL teams are arrogant. They think they can fix these kind of problems. Josh Allen threw 15 picks in his big season and completed 56% of his passes in the Mountain West. And he was the #7 overall pick. He and Feleipe are the same guy, except Feleipe is our quarterback, has had more national exposure, and played better competition.
He will get drafted, and drafted high based on being 6’6 240, having the strongest arm in the draft, probably running a 4.6-4.7, and being productive- even though inconsistent. I don’t think he deserves to be a high draft pick based on what he’s done at UF. I do know how these NFL teams think, and Feleipe is what they’re looking for.
quote:
P.S.: No hard feelings, man, you're a true Gator fan and one of the most positive people I know -- but this is one of those things where Franks needs to really prove himself.
Never hard feelings, we’re all allowed to disagree. We all have our own opinions. I enjoy talking Gators and talking ball
Posted on 3/5/19 at 7:25 pm to atlgator
quote:
Josh Allen
Had 5,066 yards, a whole thousand yards and some change more than Franks who sits at 3,895 despite playing for almost the same amount of games (27 - 25) and was doing it at a far inferior school with far less recruiting talent, as an example:
They ranked 126th for the 2018 class.
99th in 2017.
116th in 2016.
113th in 2015. (HIS class.)
So that means the average class he was working with was 114th. If you swap Feleipe and Allen, Feleipe is dust in the wind and no one knows who he is. Allen was literally facing DI defenses with what's essentially a DII offense and put up better numbers.
This post was edited on 3/5/19 at 7:27 pm
Posted on 3/5/19 at 7:34 pm to StrawsDrawnAtRandom
The main problem with Franks is his sherm intake, anytime you wake up every morning with the shakes waiting for your PCP delivery some might consider this a problem. It might be in his best interests to take 2 weeks off the quit, a sabbatical to Syria and Iran might be what the Dr. Ordered.
Posted on 3/5/19 at 9:08 pm to atlgator
I do agree that a lot of his physical attributes are what NFL teams are looking for.
I don’t think he’ll be picked nearly as high as Josh Allen, but I wouldn’t be shocked to see him go in the 2nd or 3rd round which is significantly earlier than I would draft him.
I don’t think he’ll be picked nearly as high as Josh Allen, but I wouldn’t be shocked to see him go in the 2nd or 3rd round which is significantly earlier than I would draft him.
Posted on 3/5/19 at 9:39 pm to Dawgsontop34
I don't see why he's draft material at all at this moment. Being big and strong means nothing if you can't piece together the game, manage the pocket or your own emotions. Again: It's completely dependent on what he does this year.
If he goes 2 - 3rd round, Mullen needs a statue.
If he goes 2 - 3rd round, Mullen needs a statue.
Posted on 3/5/19 at 10:39 pm to atlgator
quote:
Feleipe will be drafted higher in the draft next year. I guarantee it. Nfl teams drool over 6’6 240 with a cannon.
Yeah, those balls look real pretty getting air mailed into the trainers tent 15 yards deep on the sideline.
Posted on 3/5/19 at 10:39 pm to StrawsDrawnAtRandom
quote:
I don't see why he's draft material at all at this moment. Being big and strong means nothing if you can't piece together the game, manage the pocket or your own emotions
I’m right there with you. I’m just going off NFL mock draft boards.
I’m much lower on Franks than the boards that have him as a top 10 QB in the draft.
Posted on 3/6/19 at 6:11 am to atlgator
I will bet you $100 Franks isn’t drafted in 1st rd.
Posted on 3/6/19 at 11:54 am to Long Dawg
Some more info:
“UF QB coach has had less than professional communication with the family after the announcement and we dont need to worry about the Gators getting back in this. Mullen hasn’t done them any favors either.”
“UF QB coach has had less than professional communication with the family after the announcement and we dont need to worry about the Gators getting back in this. Mullen hasn’t done them any favors either.”
Posted on 3/6/19 at 2:28 pm to djsdawg
I mean, this isn't that big of a deal to me. I just wanted to come take my chance to pose the question of Franks to people who aren't Gator fans (who I am very much opposed to).
Beck wasn't a huge need -- it hurts, but he's only a need if ATL is right about Franks.
Let's leap forward to 2020:
RSSR Trask (May transfer)
RSJR Jones
RSSO Jones
Beck would likely sit on the bench for...two or three years. If Franks goes early and Trask transfers, obviously we need one more QB but those two will likely be our starters for 2020 regardless of who we take this cycle and who stays. (Trask and Franks both don't fit the system while they do).
Just kind of a shame that we went after Beck when we already had Richardson (who all Gators expect to return, but who can know?).
Beck wasn't a huge need -- it hurts, but he's only a need if ATL is right about Franks.
Let's leap forward to 2020:
RSSR Trask (May transfer)
RSJR Jones
RSSO Jones
Beck would likely sit on the bench for...two or three years. If Franks goes early and Trask transfers, obviously we need one more QB but those two will likely be our starters for 2020 regardless of who we take this cycle and who stays. (Trask and Franks both don't fit the system while they do).
Just kind of a shame that we went after Beck when we already had Richardson (who all Gators expect to return, but who can know?).
Posted on 3/6/19 at 2:53 pm to StrawsDrawnAtRandom
Where it hurts most is that he goes to your main sec competition and drastically improves our qb situation going forward.
Posted on 3/6/19 at 3:07 pm to StrawsDrawnAtRandom
Being a GA. boy I hope the best for Emory Jones except against UGA of course but I just don't see it, Jalon Jones is a exceptional athlete with great speed but he needs to work on his mechanics as a passer. I expect Jalon to be the Gators starter in 2020 but neither Jones is as advanced as a passer as Beck is today. There was a reason Mullen pushed Richardson to the side for Beck but like it has been discussed Beck probably does fit UGA's scheme better as a pro style QB.
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