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re: Why are people including Mizzou in all these threads?
Posted on 10/7/13 at 10:26 pm to Porker Face
Posted on 10/7/13 at 10:26 pm to Porker Face
quote:
You are saying all other methods of quantifying school performance are bull shite and "just give me the test scores"
If 70% of a school's kids can't read, the other measures don't mean shite. The school is failing. And until NCLB, no one really even noticed or cared.
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Posted on 10/7/13 at 10:26 pm to Porker Face
There's a reason we use batting average and WAR to quantify baseball performance. It's the same reason we use tests to determine how is smart and who is dumb.
Posted on 10/7/13 at 10:27 pm to MIZ_STL
A test score thread.
This has got to be a first.
Good job guys.
This has got to be a first.
Good job guys.
Posted on 10/7/13 at 10:28 pm to Remote Controlled
quote:
A test score thread.
This has got to be a first.
Good job guys.
This is exactly what I envisioned when I created this thread.
Posted on 10/7/13 at 10:28 pm to the808bass
quote:
You haven't thought past the first 3 inches of this argument
I guarantee you I have. And yes, what you say is valid. But as you know, "teaching the test" does not equate to learning
There is no simple alternative to testing, if there was we would've changed to it by now. A more complex, system approach is needed because education is a complex issue
Posted on 10/7/13 at 10:29 pm to Remote Controlled
svb, get an act tutor. He or she can bring up your score 3-4 points easy. A 29 is great. A 32-33 is definitely within reach.
Posted on 10/7/13 at 10:30 pm to svb
quote:
I just got my ACT score back today... 29
First time taking it (11th grade)
This was me once upon a time. Better make a smart choice with college son
Posted on 10/7/13 at 10:32 pm to Porker Face
quote:
But as you know, "teaching the test" does not equate to learning
That's what bad teachers say.
If a kid can pass a math test, he learned. If he can't, he didn't. You can chase that philosophical nonsense down a rabbit-hole all you want, but there's where you end up.
Basic math and literacy is where the schools are failing. They're not failing in "instilling a love of literature." Or in "getting kids to realize the real-world implications of algebra." They're failing at the "grammar" level of the equation. And that's the perfect place for standardized testing and measurement and hard, objective data.
Posted on 10/7/13 at 10:34 pm to MIZ_STL
quote:
svb, get an act tutor. He or she can bring up your score 3-4 points easy. A 29 is great. A 32-33 is definitely within reach.
Yeah, I am taking a prep class right now actually. Not sure where I am looking at for college, I kinda want to go to a southeastern school and study architecture but it all depends on scholarships and everything. Therefore probably not gonna end up at Mizzou
This post was edited on 10/7/13 at 10:35 pm
Posted on 10/7/13 at 10:37 pm to the808bass
quote:
If a kid can pass a math test, he learned
S/he learned absolutely nothing useful, but yes you are correct.
If you know of a standardized test that effectively tests critical thinking, I will jump on your bandwagon. That is what is lacking today. If you say that is a non-essential flowery ivory tower concept, then I give up. But I'm not sending my kid to your school
Posted on 10/7/13 at 10:38 pm to svb
quote:
study architecture
Really?
Posted on 10/7/13 at 10:39 pm to Porker Face
quote:
Really?
I dunno. I want to.
Posted on 10/7/13 at 10:39 pm to svb
What do you really want to do, like careerwise?
Posted on 10/7/13 at 10:41 pm to Porker Face
Not entirely sure yet, but probably be an architect 
Posted on 10/7/13 at 10:42 pm to Porker Face
quote:
S/he learned absolutely nothing useful, but yes you are correct.
If you know of a standardized test that effectively tests critical thinking, I will jump on your bandwagon. That is what is lacking today. If you say that is a non-essential flowery ivory tower concept, then I give up. But I'm not sending my kid to your school
To say that a kid who passes a math test has learned nothing useful is complete ignorance.
You can't "critically think" about math (the "logic" portion of learning) until you know the facts of math. You can't create new math ideas ("rhetoric"), until you can critically think about it.
If a kid can't pass a math test, he's not going to create new math theory. If a kid can't read, he's not going to write a sonnet.
Posted on 10/7/13 at 10:44 pm to the808bass
That is a great approach to keeping the status quo. Inner city schools can continue to lose funding and deteriorate and we can continue to fall behind other nations
Posted on 10/7/13 at 10:45 pm to svb
Lol I figured that part out. I meant a bit more generally. What do you want to feel you accomplished on Friday at 5? That's what I asked myself
Posted on 10/7/13 at 10:48 pm to Porker Face
If the kids haven't passed the grammar stage (learning to read), you're not going to get them to critically think about literature.
Asking them to critically think about literature is not in their skill set. Testing them on their "grammar," is a great first step. I appreciate your devotion to this topic (which is better than most), but you honestly haven't a clue about education. The goal is to get them to critical thinking about literature. But they have to read first.
The cart-before-the-horse ideas you're proposing is what got us to where we are today, in large part.
Asking them to critically think about literature is not in their skill set. Testing them on their "grammar," is a great first step. I appreciate your devotion to this topic (which is better than most), but you honestly haven't a clue about education. The goal is to get them to critical thinking about literature. But they have to read first.
The cart-before-the-horse ideas you're proposing is what got us to where we are today, in large part.
Posted on 10/7/13 at 10:51 pm to the808bass
Why can't we test and not emphasize it 10000% like we do today? For example, not tie a school's funding (read: blood) to test scores?
If you ask me, a kid who graduates high school that got 100% on every standardized test and has no critical thinking is a failure just like the other way around.
If you ask me, a kid who graduates high school that got 100% on every standardized test and has no critical thinking is a failure just like the other way around.
Posted on 10/7/13 at 10:57 pm to Porker Face
We could de-emphasize it if schools cared more about students actually learning than they did the money rolling in. It has been almost the only motivation for trying to improve student achievement.
If you ask me, a kid who graduates high school with 100% on every standardized test is prepared to learn to critically think. Which is way better than a kid who thinks he can critically think but has mastered no facts. (The real process of learning to critically think will happen for most people after they leave high school. Unless they're in a school which gets them to grammar faster (because of standardized teaching) - we call those "private schools.")
If you ask me, a kid who graduates high school with 100% on every standardized test is prepared to learn to critically think. Which is way better than a kid who thinks he can critically think but has mastered no facts. (The real process of learning to critically think will happen for most people after they leave high school. Unless they're in a school which gets them to grammar faster (because of standardized teaching) - we call those "private schools.")
This post was edited on 10/7/13 at 10:58 pm
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