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re: Sporting News Coaches Ranking 1-133
Posted on 5/26/23 at 12:05 pm to DawginSC
Posted on 5/26/23 at 12:05 pm to DawginSC
quote:
Are you going to admit that some coaches don't have disasters in recruiting in their transition year? Or are you going to stick with believing that ALWAYS happens?
Again, you're changing my statement and building strawmen.
The statement was that there is upheaval during a staff change, therefore you need to compare coaches with full recruiting cycles to other coaches with full recruiting cycles and not to coaches who were hired two weeks before ESD.
The real issue seems to be that your reading comprehension skills are awful and you're incapable of making apples to apples comparisons.
There's no need for you to be this obtuse.
Also, some of your numbers are incorrect if you're using 247
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Posted on 5/26/23 at 12:09 pm to RB10
quote:
ETA: ND was 44-7 in Kelly’s last 4 seasons with 2 playoff appearances. Man, that guy sure is a bad coach
I've repeatedly said he's a solid coach. In this thread I said he belonged in the 8-15 range, not at #6.
Nobody doubts that Kelly is solid. What we doubt is that he's better than that. He's won exactly one conference championship game, BCS/NY6 bowl game or playoff game in his career at division 1 schools.
That was in 2006 when his Central Michigan team won the MAC championship game.
Solid coaches will put up good regular season results. Great coaches add some championships or big post-season wins to that. Kelly has yet to show himself to be better than "solid".
Posted on 5/26/23 at 12:14 pm to SidewalkTiger
quote:
The statement was that there is upheaval during a staff change, therefore you need to compare coaches with full recruiting cycles to other coaches with full recruiting cycles and not to coaches who were hired two weeks before ESD.
Your actual statement:
"Recruiting is always in an upheaval during a staff change."
You later adjusted that belief to only be for the last 5 years due to ESD.
And the simple truth is that isn't always true. I gave you multiple examples of coaches who didn't have issues with "upheaval" in tearms of recruiting over a transition, including the guy who replaced your coach at his last job.
You're trying to find an excuse to cover for the fact that someone CORRECTLY stated that Jimbo Fisher is a better recruiter than Brian Kelly and the excuses you've found have all fallen flat due to examples showing that you're wrong.
You have a solid coach. He's a solid recruiter. He's a solid gameday coach. He'll get you 9-11 wins a year.
He's not a top coach though. He's just... solid.
Posted on 5/26/23 at 12:14 pm to DawginSC
quote:
He's won exactly one conference championship game, BCS/NY6 bowl game or playoff game in his career at division 1 schools.
That was in 2006 when his Central Michigan team won the MAC championship game.
The whole conference championship thing is kind of grasping at straws as he hasn't had the opportunity to play in a conference championship game for the majority of his career.
But casuals will casual.
Posted on 5/26/23 at 12:16 pm to SidewalkTiger
quote:
Also, some of your numbers are incorrect if you're using 247
I was using the 247 composite (I view composite rankings as the best measure as any outliers have less impact).
If I copied a number wrong, my apologies.
Posted on 5/26/23 at 12:18 pm to SidewalkTiger
quote:
The whole conference championship thing is kind of grasping at straws as he hasn't had the opportunity to play in a conference championship game for the majority of his career.
Yet he's had two opportunities in the last 3 seasons.
He lost those two games by 24 points and 20 points.
Posted on 5/26/23 at 12:22 pm to DawginSC
I’m old enough to remember when Kirby Smart when 8-5 (4-4) in his first year in the SEC.
If you keep moving the goalposts you’re going to kill all of the grass
If you keep moving the goalposts you’re going to kill all of the grass
Posted on 5/26/23 at 12:22 pm to DawginSC
quote:
Your actual statement:
"Recruiting is always in an upheaval during a staff change."
You later adjusted that belief to only be for the last 5 years due to ESD.
I mean that should go without saying, ESD is what has changed the process so much for a new staff.
But I guess casuals need everything spelled out.
quote:
You're trying to find an excuse to cover for the fact that someone CORRECTLY stated that Jimbo Fisher is a better recruiter than Brian Kelly and the excuses you've found have all fallen flat due to examples showing that you're wrong.
Apples to oranges comparison.
You're comparing a complete staff turnover to a staff who was in place for a full cycle in 2022.
quote:
And the simple truth is that isn't always true. I gave you multiple examples of coaches who didn't have issues with "upheaval" in tearms of recruiting over a transition, including the guy who replaced your coach at his last job.
1. You don't seem to understand that "upheaval" isn't always negative, might I suggest looking up the definition of the word?
2. Freeman is another apples to oranges comparison, much of the staff stayed in place.
Posted on 5/26/23 at 12:26 pm to SidewalkTiger
The other thing about Kelly's failures in big games (CCG/NY6/BCS/Playoff) is that he generally doesn't even come close.
He's not losing by a TD or FG in these games. His teams get crushed.
2022 - SECCG - UGA (lost by 20)
2020 - ACCCG - Clemson (lost by 24)
2020 - Playoff - Bama (lost by 17)
2018 - Cotton - Clemson (lost by 27)
2015 - Fiesta - OSU (lost by 16)
2012 - NCG - Bama (lost by 28)
2008 - Orange - VT (lost by 13)
His teams didn't do better when he quit before the bowl games... it's more about how he built the program rather than his in-game coaching.
2021 - Fiesta - ND lost by 2 to OkSu with their new coach.
2009 - Sugar - Cincy lost by 27 to Florida with Jeff Quinn as interim.
He's not losing by a TD or FG in these games. His teams get crushed.
2022 - SECCG - UGA (lost by 20)
2020 - ACCCG - Clemson (lost by 24)
2020 - Playoff - Bama (lost by 17)
2018 - Cotton - Clemson (lost by 27)
2015 - Fiesta - OSU (lost by 16)
2012 - NCG - Bama (lost by 28)
2008 - Orange - VT (lost by 13)
His teams didn't do better when he quit before the bowl games... it's more about how he built the program rather than his in-game coaching.
2021 - Fiesta - ND lost by 2 to OkSu with their new coach.
2009 - Sugar - Cincy lost by 27 to Florida with Jeff Quinn as interim.
Posted on 5/26/23 at 12:26 pm to DawginSC
quote:
Yet he's had two opportunities in the last 3 seasons.
He lost those two games by 24 points and 20 points.
And now we get to the casual argument where Kelly should be punished because he couldn't beat the undefeated national champions in the first year of a rebuild.
Nevermind the fact that he was only supposed to go
6-6, no, he should've beat Georgia as a 17 point underdog without his starting quarterback.
Posted on 5/26/23 at 12:28 pm to SidewalkTiger
quote:
Apples to oranges comparison.
So... you admitting "always" wasn't accurate yet? Or you going to keep making excuses and justifications?
quote:
You don't seem to understand that "upheaval" isn't always negative
Ah. But the upheaval was negative for LSU but was positive for ND. Interesting.
Posted on 5/26/23 at 12:29 pm to SidewalkTiger
quote:
SidewalkTiger
No use in arguing, homie showed his cards when he used Lincoln Riley as an example of a coach with a better resume than BK
Posted on 5/26/23 at 12:30 pm to DawginSC
quote:
Are you going to admit that some coaches don't have disasters in recruiting in their transition year? Or are you going to stick with believing that ALWAYS happens?
Are you saying that LSU’s 12th ranked class was a “disaster”?
Posted on 5/26/23 at 12:31 pm to RB10
He’s all over the place.
Some UGA fans still haven’t gotten over the fact that Kirby Smart was 0-2 vs Ed Orgeron with an average loss over 20 points per game
Some UGA fans still haven’t gotten over the fact that Kirby Smart was 0-2 vs Ed Orgeron with an average loss over 20 points per game
Posted on 5/26/23 at 12:31 pm to DawginSC
quote:
He's won exactly one conference championship game, BCS/NY6 bowl game or playoff game in his career at division 1 schools.
He’s coached at an independent
Posted on 5/26/23 at 12:36 pm to DawginSC
quote:
Ah. But the upheaval was negative for LSU but was positive for ND. Interesting.
LSU went 6-6 and replaced the coaching staff.
Notre Dame went 11-2 and retained much of the coaching staff.
You're still struggling in the comparison department.
Gotta compare apples to apples my man.
Posted on 5/26/23 at 12:41 pm to DawginSC
quote:
2015 - Fiesta - OSU (lost by 16)
This is really the only one that can be pointed to as a "bad loss" for BK.
quote:
2008 - Orange - VT (lost by 13)
This was at G5 Cincinnati, no one has ever won a NY6/BCS bowl at Cincinnati, Virginia Tech should always win that game.
quote:
2022 - SECCG - UGA (lost by 20)
2020 - ACCCG - Clemson (lost by 24)
2020 - Playoff - Bama (lost by 17)
2018 - Cotton - Clemson (lost by 27)
2012 - NCG - Bama (lost by 28)
These teams were a combined 56-1.
The only loss they took was to Heisman winner Johnny Football but the casuals want to say Brian Kelly is bad because he didn't beat them.
2018 Clemson beat Saban worse than they did Kelly.
Posted on 5/26/23 at 12:41 pm to DawginSC
quote:
Ah. But the upheaval was negative for LSU but was positive for ND. Interesting.
What are you talking about?
LSU improved their record and recruiting class from 2021 to 2022.
ND’s record and recruiting classes were both worse from 2021 to 2022.
So it’s literally the opposite of what you posted.
This post was edited on 5/26/23 at 12:42 pm
Posted on 5/26/23 at 12:42 pm to DawginSC
quote:
Solid coaches will put up good regular season results. Great coaches add some championships or big post-season wins to that. Kelly has yet to show himself to be better than "solid".
“Solid” coaches don’t win 11 games a season over 5 years.
Posted on 5/26/23 at 12:46 pm to SidewalkTiger
quote:
And now we get to the casual argument where Kelly should be punished because he couldn't beat the undefeated national champions in the first year of a rebuild.
If that were the only example, you'd have a point.
But Kelly's teams were ranked higher in many of these games he lost. Against UGA? No.
Against Clemson in the ACCCG in 2020? His team was ranked higher.
Against Bama in 2012? His team was ranked higher.
Against VT in the 2008 Orange Bowl? His team was ranked higher.
He's not just losing to higher ranked teams.
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