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re: Should NCAA reinstate the 1-yr Sit Out on Transfers?

Posted on 2/6/23 at 12:35 pm to
Posted by TrussvilleTide
The Endless Void
Member since Sep 2021
4069 posts
Posted on 2/6/23 at 12:35 pm to
quote:

Right, no freedom at all


Good thing I didn't say they weren't free
Posted by lsufball19
Franklin, TN
Member since Sep 2008
68884 posts
Posted on 2/6/23 at 12:35 pm to
quote:

Professional athletes signed up for it

College players sign up for it too
quote:

and are being paid handsomely

and now college players are...i.e. the whole point

quote:

Should we just tell CFB players where they have to go to college?

I don't think a draft would be a terrible idea if we keep going down the road we're on.
quote:

There is no way you are a college graduate

It's baffling how ignorant you are, sorry.
Posted by lsufball19
Franklin, TN
Member since Sep 2008
68884 posts
Posted on 2/6/23 at 12:35 pm to
quote:

Good thing I didn't say they weren't free

You said all they can decide is where they live
Posted by TrussvilleTide
The Endless Void
Member since Sep 2021
4069 posts
Posted on 2/6/23 at 12:36 pm to
quote:

You said all they can decide is where they live


I said that because you were bringing up the NFL players you tard. Thats the only advantage they have over NFL guys, and its only guys on rookie deals who in all likelihood make way more money than the college guys anyway.

Posted by lsufball19
Franklin, TN
Member since Sep 2008
68884 posts
Posted on 2/6/23 at 12:37 pm to
quote:

Thats the only advantage they have over NFL guys

Well it's not, but ok
Posted by TrussvilleTide
The Endless Void
Member since Sep 2021
4069 posts
Posted on 2/6/23 at 12:37 pm to
I like how you ignored me asking how much you think an average college athlete makes on NIL

Don't forget to pick up some crayons on your way home.
Posted by lsufball19
Franklin, TN
Member since Sep 2008
68884 posts
Posted on 2/6/23 at 12:38 pm to
quote:

I like how you ignored me asking how much you think an average college athlete makes on NIL

I like how you ignored everything else
quote:

Don't forget to pick up some crayons on your way home.
Posted by TrussvilleTide
The Endless Void
Member since Sep 2021
4069 posts
Posted on 2/6/23 at 12:42 pm to
If you're going to cherry pick points why should I discuss even further? You just ignore anything you don't have what you believe is a good answer for.

Anyone who thinks we should have a draft of recruits or even established CFB players is beyond moronic, and I'm not sorry. The what they do in regards to football has carryover to other sports as well, but you seem like a t-shirt fan who only follows football and probably don't care.
Posted by lsufball19
Franklin, TN
Member since Sep 2008
68884 posts
Posted on 2/6/23 at 12:48 pm to
quote:

If you're going to cherry pick points

Hi pot, meet kettle
quote:

Anyone who thinks we should have a draft of recruits or even established CFB players is beyond moronic, and I'm not sorry. The what they do in regards to football has carryover to other sports as well, but you seem like a t-shirt fan who only follows football and probably don't care.


Anyone who thinks this is a black and white issue and opposition is laughable is moronic, but here we are.

Bottom line, we cannot pay players unlimited funds of money and also have no structure with player movement. Period. That model is not sustainable long-term. It just isn't. Every professional league on the planet has salary caps, contract employees, and player drafts. What college athletics is trying to do is a clown show. They want to have a professional league without actually calling it one and without any rules or structure. It is very short-sighted. If you can't see that, I'm sorry.

Once college players began to be legally paid to play sports, this "woe is me" bullshite about being stuck at a place if something doesn't go how they want it to is hilarious to me. No, I don't feel sorry for them.

What's broken is the NFL doesn't want to subsidize a minor league system because college football has always done it for them for free. NFL Football is the only pro sport that requires pro athletes to spend 3 years after high school before joining, so the trickle down argument you made is irrelevant. No other sport requires players to go somewhere else after high school except the NBA, for one year, and they can go play professionally overseas if they want to and make good money doing it.
This post was edited on 2/6/23 at 12:53 pm
Posted by TrussvilleTide
The Endless Void
Member since Sep 2021
4069 posts
Posted on 2/6/23 at 1:09 pm to
quote:

ottom line, we cannot pay players unlimited funds of money and also have no structure with player movement. Period. That model is not sustainable long-term. It just isn't.


That doesn't mean the sitting out a year solution is the only thing that is going to work, or even a good solution. I don't think guys who legitimately needed to leave a place to try and get a shot at playing or just made a bad decision as a teenager (which is the vast majority of portal entries) should be punished because a select few at the top are chasing a better NIL opportunity.

The problem is most of the effective solutions are to incentivize picking a school and staying there, and that would have to take place at the institutional level. There is just not any incentive for anyone outside of really small/poorer schools to blink and actually implement it.

Maybe have Scaling pay from collectives based on time on campus or just class level (junior, senior, etc).

Maybe you have actual longer term NIL contracts with teeth, and if you are in a contract and transfer you can't earn NIL at the new school. So you would have schools giving more highly touted guys 1 year deals if they ask for it, which means they could transfer for more at the end of the year but also means if they are a bust or problem you might just not give them anything next year.
Posted by Sleepy_Tiger
Baton Rouge, La
Member since Aug 2021
9016 posts
Posted on 2/6/23 at 1:12 pm to
Yes
Posted by jonnyanony
Member since Nov 2020
13179 posts
Posted on 2/6/23 at 1:14 pm to
quote:

Should we just tell CFB players where they have to go to college?


Probably.

If they want to ignore a draft they can, but you incentivize the top athletes to participate. Because let's be honest: the most coveted HS football players do not care about college.
Posted by meansonny
ATL
Member since Sep 2012
26005 posts
Posted on 2/6/23 at 1:28 pm to
quote:

Courts won't allow it. There is no way for universities to agree to a set of rules which won't be collusion if someone challenges it in court. It is the free market doing what it does best. It is what conservative politics was, no more than 6 years ago, based on....free markets with little to no regulation outside of that which the natural forces of the market force.

There is no legal way that UGA and UF and LSU, for example, can agree that any players who transfer from one of the 3 to another of the 3 will have to sit out a year IF the player himself does not choose to sit out a year because he will simply transfer to another school without such rules. Those 3 schools would eventually have to decide to play by the same rules as everyone else or continue to attempt to be different. The NCAA can't impose any such rule because as soon as it does someone is going to challenge it and win. You cannot regulate the free market without legislation....thank goodness. Businesses cannot collude with one another to limit competition, thank goodness. If workers and small business are meant to figure out how to survive in a free market with little or no regulation why should college football be exempt?

I disagree.
They aren't employees.
There is nothing to prevent the ncaa to make a player athletically ineligible. The ncaa does it all the time (years removed from high school, number of credit hours, GPA, impermissible benefits).

Regulating college athletics is within the purview of the ncaa/SEC.
Regulating NIL is not.

The ncaa easily could regulate the transfer rule to require a redshirt.
They have in the past (with a stupid, inconsistent waiver process. I suggest remove the waiver process. Any student with a diploma has earned special rights and immediate priviledges).
Posted by Pulpwood Patterson
Member since Dec 2017
1799 posts
Posted on 2/6/23 at 1:45 pm to
Essentially your point for pro sports is the salary cap? 32 teams can have a team cap but I cant prevent an agency in Denver in the private sector from guaranteeing another 10m/year as complimentary salary to Stud player A to allure them to Denver over Detroit because I want to?
This post was edited on 2/6/23 at 1:59 pm
Posted by AwgustaDawg
CSRA
Member since Jan 2023
11429 posts
Posted on 2/6/23 at 2:08 pm to
quote:

quote:
The difference is there are 30ish pro teams in each league. There are 130 FBS teams in college football.

Irrelevant
quote:
20+ states have no pro sports in their borders....almost all have a FBS college football team in their border.

Also irrelevant
quote:
pro sports leagues are going to face the same issue.

no, they won't.
quote:
It ain't about contracts

it is
quote:
that ain't going to continue to fly in pro sports,

it will


Just 5 or so years ago people on message boards such as this told me I was wrong about players getting paid and the transfer portal existing. I saw CFB becoming the NFL minor league 40 years ago when players won a court battle over the NCAA and the NFL keeping players in school past their junior years and again when colleges sued so they could be on TV as much as they could sell networks on. It is far easier to maintain a gentleman's agreement when there are only 30 gentlemen and no chance of anyone else becoming a gentleman without permission from those 30. 130 is completely unmanageable. State laws will vary as far as labor laws are concerned. Contracts are only as good as the parties signed to them and only good until someone challenges them in court and wins. You can't enter a contract where you agree to swap fundamental rights for something because it'll only be good until the party decided they want their fundamental rights back. Scrutiny over MLB and antitrust is as high as its ever been and only going to get higher...pro sports have been allowed to operate in a gray area and someone is going to force the issue sooner than later....nothing in life is constant except change.
Posted by AwgustaDawg
CSRA
Member since Jan 2023
11429 posts
Posted on 2/6/23 at 2:16 pm to
quote:

Essentially your point for pro sports is the salary cap? 32 teams can have a team cap but I cant prevent an agency in Denver in the private sector from guaranteeing another 10m/year as complimentary salary to Stud player A to allure them to Denver over Detroit because I want to?


I can't imagine there being anyway to stop it other than something in the players contract preventing it as a representative of the team he is contracted to. There is certainly nothing anyone can do about me having a UGA football come to my son's birthday party for a million $ payday, as it should be....no one has the right to tell me who I can do legal business with and no one has the right to tell a player they can't do so also.

It ain't just a salary cap though...they can't pilfer players from one another because they more or less agree not to. Easy to do when there is only 30 or so and the courts have largely allowed you to do what you pleased. The courts largely allowed the NCAA to do what it pleased until it didn't. They agree to have those terms in all NFLor NBA contracts. That would work in college athletics also until someone decided they just weren't going to abide by it and others went along with it and players told their current team they weren't playing for them anymore....the look would be horrible and no way a University is going to be associated with it...
Posted by AwgustaDawg
CSRA
Member since Jan 2023
11429 posts
Posted on 2/6/23 at 2:23 pm to
quote:


I disagree.
They aren't employees.
There is nothing to prevent the ncaa to make a player athletically ineligible. The ncaa does it all the time (years removed from high school, number of credit hours, GPA, impermissible benefits).

Regulating college athletics is within the purview of the ncaa/SEC.
Regulating NIL is not.

The ncaa easily could regulate the transfer rule to require a redshirt.
They have in the past (with a stupid, inconsistent waiver process. I suggest remove the waiver process. Any student with a diploma has earned special rights and immediate priviledges).



The NCAA can do anything it chooses, the problem isn't what the NCAA does it is what attorneys for players and other schools do given that the NCAA was told recently that it really had no authority to do anything that its members did not agree with and if more than a few decided not to agree with the NCAA they will have a competitive advantage that all others will have to follow to keep up.

Regulating college athletics is only the purview of the NCAA as long as all parties agree to abide by that regulation....players ain't having it and some institutions aren't going to have it and they will grab a huge competitive advantage. Pro athletes are employees, their contracts have some leverage in them within the confine of the law. Universities want the best of both or worlds that they enjoyed for years but the courts have ruled...those days are rightfully over. The NCAA has no authority other than that agreed upon by member institutions and those institutions are being held at knifepoint by players and that leverage is only going to get worse not better because Universities are saddled with title iX and an alumni base that likes its sports. The players hold all of the cards, the programs fawn over them to get them on campus, they are treated like royalty for 3 years and hold all of the power and they are slowly realizing that.
Posted by SouthernInsanity
Shadows of Death Valley
Member since Nov 2012
22391 posts
Posted on 2/6/23 at 2:27 pm to
quote:

These guys are on the clock as to when they can make money


NIL shouldn't be their job, but it really is that. Kids are the clock to perform well enough to get drafted and MAKE MONEY.
Posted by SECdragonmaster
Order of the Dragons
Member since Dec 2013
17188 posts
Posted on 2/6/23 at 2:30 pm to
I think players should play by the same rules as the coaches.

The same financial limits.
The same transfer limits.

If a coach moves from one program to another he has to sit out of coaching for 1 year unless it is within the same conference - then he sits out two years.

These coaches knew what they were getting into when they accepted the contract.
Posted by Tupelo
Member since Aug 2022
1621 posts
Posted on 2/6/23 at 2:53 pm to
quote:

I've said this numerous times, but Drew Sanders came to us for playing time. He made all American and was one of if not the best athlete on our team and he couldn’t start at Bama.



Drew Sanders was a starter at Bama until he was injured, Dallas Turner was the starter the rest of the year. Drew was told by Saban that he would be the starter at ILB the next year, but was apparently miffed that he wasn't given his starter position back after he returned from injury. So he transferred to Arkansas. He did well at Arkansas, but would have started, and probably done just as well, at Alabama.
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