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re: SEC Standings Since 1933

Posted on 12/22/17 at 8:42 pm to
Posted by Korin
Member since Jan 2014
37935 posts
Posted on 12/22/17 at 8:42 pm to
Such as?
Posted by Doc Fenton
New York, NY
Member since Feb 2007
52698 posts
Posted on 12/22/17 at 8:47 pm to
I've posted my own accounting of all-time records elsewhere, but there are several screwy things that affects this stuff, which is why it's so hard to see consistent reporting of it online.

You can have stuff like Sewanee's 1940 game against Vanderbilt, which the SEC office apparently counts as a conference game, even though Sewanee has clearly already moved to being an independent that season. But then, as another poster was saying, there may have been some grandfather clauses to allow remaining teams to count their contractually agreed to games as conference games, even though the other team had already left the conference.

Then there are the rare SEC-vs-SEC bowl matchups, which I count as having occurred 10 times in history between the 1952 and 2011 seasons. Then there are the 26 SECCG.

EDIT: There's also weird stuff like Kentucky claiming a co-share of the 1976 SEC title (with UGA) retroactively in 1978, after the SEC office made MSU forfeit a 1976 conference win over UK in Jackson.
This post was edited on 12/22/17 at 8:51 pm
Posted by Ag Zwin
Member since Mar 2016
20025 posts
Posted on 12/22/17 at 8:48 pm to
So, the two most recent additions are both above the two before that?

Interdasting.
Posted by Volodya
Member since Nov 2017
281 posts
Posted on 12/22/17 at 8:51 pm to
It's pretty amazing that Tennessee is still there given their decade of suck. Also pretty amazing that Auburn has played most those top teams on a consistent basis. I'll let some virgin with no life run the numbers for me, but I'd be shocked to see any of those teams above Auburn have on average, an overall more difficult schedule. Cough cough bear Bryant Vandy scheduling cough cough
Posted by dcbl
Good guys wear white hats.
Member since Sep 2013
29723 posts
Posted on 12/22/17 at 8:52 pm to
quote:

Then there are the rare SEC-vs-SEC bowl matchups, which I count as having occurred 10 times in history between 1952 and 2011. Then there are the 26 SECCG.

EDIT: There's also weird stuff like Kentucky claiming a co-share of the 1976 SEC title (with UGA) retroactively in 1978, after the SEC office made MSU forfeit a 1976 conference win over UK in Jackson.


plus; doesn't AL have a bunch of years when they played an extra game that did not count as a conference game?

I want to say there were a few years when games against straight up OOC opponents counted as conference games (maybe even a few Auburn vs Clemson or UNC games?) to compensate for losing the GA Tech game?
Posted by Korin
Member since Jan 2014
37935 posts
Posted on 12/22/17 at 8:52 pm to
quote:

I've posted my own accounting of all-time records elsewhere, but there are several screwy things that affects this stuff, which is why it's so hard to see consistent reporting of it online.

You can have stuff like Sewanee's 1940 game against Vanderbilt, which the SEC office apparently counts as a conference game, even though Sewanee has clearly already moved to being an independent that season. But then, as another poster was saying, there may have been some grandfather clauses to allow remaining teams to count their contractually agreed to games as conference games, even though the other team had already left the conference.

Then there are the rare SEC-vs-SEC bowl matchups, which I count as having occurred 10 times in history between the 1952 and 2011 seasons. Then there are the 26 SECCG.

EDIT: There's also weird stuff like Kentucky claiming a co-share of the 1976 SEC title (with UGA) retroactively in 1978, after the SEC office made MSU forfeit a 1976 conference win over UK in Jackson.

SEC teams were allowed to schedule OOC teams as SEC games back then. For example, Georgia only played 5 SEC teams in 1966 but had 6 conference games (usually North or South Carolina) and shared the SEC title with Bama.
Posted by calcotron
Member since Nov 2007
8314 posts
Posted on 12/22/17 at 8:53 pm to
quote:

UT and UGA with the same amount of wins and LSU and UF with the same amount after 84 seasons. That's crazy.


I think it's just as crazy that expansion Arky and SC are 1 loss and 1 tie from the same record since joining.
Posted by Doc Fenton
New York, NY
Member since Feb 2007
52698 posts
Posted on 12/22/17 at 8:57 pm to
UGA shared the title with Bama in 1966 because both had 1.000 winning percentages in conference games.

As another poster said, the SEC may have allowed UGA to count its win over GT as a conference game for that season's title chase, making it 6-0 like Bama. But I don't count those types of games as regular season SEC games.

Either way, a UGA at 5-0 or a UGA at 6-0 would have still earned a co-title with Bama that season.
Posted by Doc Fenton
New York, NY
Member since Feb 2007
52698 posts
Posted on 12/22/17 at 8:59 pm to
quote:

I want to say there were a few years when games against straight up OOC opponents counted as conference games (maybe even a few Auburn vs Clemson or UNC games?) to compensate for losing the GA Tech game?


I guess anything is possible, but I have my doubts as to whether any games against Clemson, UNC, or SCAR (pre-1992) were ever counted as conference games. Grandfathering contractually agreed upon games against Sewanee (in 1940), Tulane, or Georgia Tech seems more plausible.
Posted by Korin
Member since Jan 2014
37935 posts
Posted on 12/22/17 at 8:59 pm to
Like I said, the SEC allowed teams to schedule OOC teams as conference games back then. It's not hard.
Posted by Doc Fenton
New York, NY
Member since Feb 2007
52698 posts
Posted on 12/22/17 at 9:00 pm to
Show me proof of one example.
Posted by Korin
Member since Jan 2014
37935 posts
Posted on 12/22/17 at 9:01 pm to
I just told you - North Carolina in 1966.
Posted by Doc Fenton
New York, NY
Member since Feb 2007
52698 posts
Posted on 12/22/17 at 9:02 pm to
And I see no evidence that would leave me to believe that's true. It makes no sense given the facts.
Posted by Korin
Member since Jan 2014
37935 posts
Posted on 12/22/17 at 9:02 pm to
No evidence? It's right there in the media guide.
Posted by Doc Fenton
New York, NY
Member since Feb 2007
52698 posts
Posted on 12/22/17 at 9:04 pm to
What are you talking about? I don't even see North Carolina (or any explanation of the 1966 season) mentioned in that screenshot.
Posted by dcbl
Good guys wear white hats.
Member since Sep 2013
29723 posts
Posted on 12/22/17 at 9:05 pm to
quote:

And I see no evidence that would leave me to believe that's true. It makes no sense given the facts.


I am having a hard time finding it on google' but he is correct

a few teams counted OOC games as part of the conference record in the late 60's & UNC was definitely one of the teams

pretty sure Clemson and/or S. Carolina or NC State were as well


Posted by Korin
Member since Jan 2014
37935 posts
Posted on 12/22/17 at 9:07 pm to
THANK YOU. Jeez.
Posted by Doc Fenton
New York, NY
Member since Feb 2007
52698 posts
Posted on 12/22/17 at 9:10 pm to
Holy shite. I found it--a link about "appointed games" from this board. God, that's crazy.

1954 Ole Miss vs Arkansas, 0-6 (5-1-0; conference champs)
1958 Ole Miss vs Houston, 56-7 (4-2-0; 3rd)
1965 Georgia vs Clemson, 23-9 (3-3-0; tied for 6th)
1965 Tennessee vs Clemson, 24-3 (3-1-2; tied for 3rd)
1966 Florida vs Tulane, 31-10 (5-1-0; 3rd)
1966 Georgia vs North Carolina (6-0-0; co-champions)
1966 LSU vs Tulane, 21-7 (3-3-0; 6th)
1966 Tennessee vs South Carolina, 29-17 (4-2-0; 5th)
1966 Vanderbilt vs Tulane, 12-13 (0-6-0; 9th tied for last)
1967 Georgia vs Clemson, 24-17 (4-2-0; tied for 3rd)
1967 Vanderbilt vs Tulane, 12-13 (0-6-0; 9th tied for last)
1968 Florida vs Tulane, 24-3 (3-2-1; tied 6th)
1968 LSU vs TCU, 10-7 (4-2-0; tied for 3rd)
1968 LSU vs Tulane, 34-10 (4-2-0; tied for 3rd)
1968 Mississippi State vs Texas Tech, 28-28 (0-4-2, 9th)
1968 Vanderbilt vs Tulane, 21-7 (2-3-1; 8th)


EDIT: Interestingly, it says the rule was "negated", not simply ended, in 1969.
This post was edited on 12/22/17 at 9:16 pm
Posted by Korin
Member since Jan 2014
37935 posts
Posted on 12/22/17 at 9:16 pm to
It's also in the book Conference Pride: The Ultimate Book about SEC Football from 1933-2016.

LINK

I think I like this book since it has us with 11 SEC titles.
Posted by Korin
Member since Jan 2014
37935 posts
Posted on 12/22/17 at 9:18 pm to
quote:

plus; doesn't AL have a bunch of years when they played an extra game that did not count as a conference game?

I don't know about that but they still won the SEC 1972 because they played an extra game over Auburn (who beat them in the infamous Punt Bama Punt game). Looks like it was either Kentucky or Vanderbilt.
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