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SEC Basketball: Is it the Big 3 compared to Big 6 of football?
Posted on 1/19/17 at 8:57 am
Posted on 1/19/17 at 8:57 am
In SEC football, posters recognize the Big 6 in football as those with recent National Championships and SEC Championships. Still, historically it has been Alabama and then the rest. Admittedly, the same can be said about basketball regarding Kentucky.
In SEC Basketball, would the thought be that there are the Big 3 historically, and then everyone else? Only 3 programs have won legitimate National Championships in the SEC. I was curious what the thoughts were on the leagues basketball programs.
Kentucky: 8 National Titles, 12 National Championship Games, 17 Final Fours, 49 Conference Championships
Florida: 2 National Titles, 3 National Championship Games, 5 Final Fours, 7 Conference Championships
Arkansas: 1 National Title, 2 National Championship Games, 6 Final Fours, 24 Conference Championships(2 SEC)
After those, how would you go about ranking league programs? Would there be an argument to add anyone to the "Big 3" in basketball? Should there be more of a determining factor than National Championship winning programs? Curious the thoughts...
In SEC Basketball, would the thought be that there are the Big 3 historically, and then everyone else? Only 3 programs have won legitimate National Championships in the SEC. I was curious what the thoughts were on the leagues basketball programs.
Kentucky: 8 National Titles, 12 National Championship Games, 17 Final Fours, 49 Conference Championships
Florida: 2 National Titles, 3 National Championship Games, 5 Final Fours, 7 Conference Championships
Arkansas: 1 National Title, 2 National Championship Games, 6 Final Fours, 24 Conference Championships(2 SEC)
After those, how would you go about ranking league programs? Would there be an argument to add anyone to the "Big 3" in basketball? Should there be more of a determining factor than National Championship winning programs? Curious the thoughts...
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Posted on 1/19/17 at 8:58 am to Hawgeye
Like in football there is a Big 1 and then a 2nd tier.
Unlike football, the 2nd tier is only 2-3 schools as opposed to 4-5 schools.
Unlike football, the 2nd tier is only 2-3 schools as opposed to 4-5 schools.
Posted on 1/19/17 at 8:58 am to Hawgeye
No, pretty much just the Big One! 
Posted on 1/19/17 at 9:00 am to Hawgeye
There is such a large disparity between Kentucky and the rest of the conference 
Posted on 1/19/17 at 9:02 am to Hawgeye
quote:
SEC Basketball: Is it the Big 3 compared to Big 6 of football?
Nah.
The "big 6" was coined when we went to divisions and the top 3 in each side were desigated...obviously beacuse they were far and away the 6 best teams in the league historically. With football, you basically have the big 1, then a steep gap where you have Tennessee, then a small and rapidly getting smaller gap, then UGA/UF/AU/LSU all jumbled up right next to each other where you could probably make a case for any of the 4 being better than the others.
With basketball you have UK then a gap so large you can't even see the end of it. With basketball there is no "big" whatever.
Posted on 1/19/17 at 9:02 am to Hawgeye
It's the Big 1 in basketball
Posted on 1/19/17 at 9:05 am to Gary Busey
quote:
There is such a large disparity between Kentucky and the rest of the conference
It's larger, but really very similar to football.
Kentucky BB : 8 National Titles
Next Closest : 2 National Titles (Florida)
Kentucky BB : 47 SEC Regular Season Titles
Next Closest : 11 SEC regular Season Titles (LSU)
Kentucky BB : 28 SEC Tournament Titles
Next Closest : 6 SEC Tournament Titles (Alabama)
Alabama Football : 10 AP National Titles
Next Closest : 3 National Titles (Florida/LSU)
Alabama Football : 26 SEC Titles
Next Closest : 13 SEC Titles (Tennessee)
Alabama Football : 66 Bowl Games
Next Closest : 52 Bowl Games (Georgia)
Posted on 1/19/17 at 9:07 am to WG_Dawg
Yea, I think we can all agree historically Kentucky is not only ahead of all the SEC, but most of the nation.
I think we all agree with with National Championships, Florida and Arkansas would be the SEC programs below Kentucky historically.
I guess my question is more about the basketball being a more tiered league I guess.
Tier 1: Kentucky
Tier 2: Arkansas & Florida(National Championships)
Tier 3: Conference Championships + Final Fours
Tier 4: Conference Championships + NCAA Appearances
Tier 5: NCAA Appearances + NIT Appearances
Just curious what everyone would put as a "tier ranking" when looking at the league overall historically.
I think we all agree with with National Championships, Florida and Arkansas would be the SEC programs below Kentucky historically.
I guess my question is more about the basketball being a more tiered league I guess.
Tier 1: Kentucky
Tier 2: Arkansas & Florida(National Championships)
Tier 3: Conference Championships + Final Fours
Tier 4: Conference Championships + NCAA Appearances
Tier 5: NCAA Appearances + NIT Appearances
Just curious what everyone would put as a "tier ranking" when looking at the league overall historically.
Posted on 1/19/17 at 9:08 am to ShaneTheLegLechler
quote:
It's the Big 1 in basketball
And its the same in football, but we still classify the "Big 6"
No program is close to Alabama, just as no program is close to Kentucky.
Posted on 1/19/17 at 9:09 am to Hawgeye
quote:
Just curious what everyone would put as a "tier ranking" when looking at the league overall historically.
I'd probably say, in order of importance
1. National Titles
2. Final Fours
3. Sweet 16s
4. Conference Titles
5. NCAA Appearances
6. NIT Appearances
Final Fours are clearly an important measuring stick, but there is a certain point where you have to equate 1 final four to 10 NCAA appearances or something. I don't think 1 great month in 100 years of basketball should jump you halfway up a list when you have 10 NCAA appearances outside of that (Georgia, as an example).
But yea - I'd say my list would be something like
Tier 1 - Kentucky
Tier 2 - Arkansas, Florida
Tier 3 - LSU (mainly due to Final 4s compared to UT/Bama, rest is pretty even)
Tier 4 - Tennessee, Alabama, Missouri, Mississippi State
Tier 5 - Georgia, Vanderbilt
Tier 6 - Auburn, South Carolina, Texas A&M
Tier 7 - Ole Miss
This post was edited on 1/19/17 at 9:37 am
Posted on 1/19/17 at 9:11 am to Hawgeye
quote:
I guess my question is more about the basketball being a more tiered league I guess.
the thing with football though is that after the main 1 (bama), UT/UGA/UF/LSU/AU are all top ~15 programs of all time in football. It makes since that those 6 schools would be lumped together.
With basketball, even your second tier programs like uf or arkansas aren't really considered top 10 programs of all time (that I know of anyway?)
I mean sure, you can manufacture a "big whatever" in any sport you want with whatever number you want. But at least in football it kinda makes some sense, where in basketball I think adding a 2nd or 3rd is just grasping at straws.
Posted on 1/19/17 at 9:14 am to WG_Dawg
quote:
the thing with football though is that after the main 1 (bama), UT/UGA/UF/LSU/AU are all top ~15 programs of all time in football. It makes since that those 6 schools would be lumped together.
With basketball, even your second tier programs like uf or arkansas aren't really considered top 10 programs of all time (that I know of anyway?)
Historically, Arkansas is probably a top 15 program. Was higher before the long stretch of mediocre play, which equaled not as many NCAAt trips. When considering all things...NCAA appearances, NCAA wins, Final Fours, Sweet 16's, etc.
I get your point...Kentucky is tops in the nation all time, but then the second best league program is around a top 15 program. Florida would be up there, but only because of 2 National Titles. Considering all things, they don't match up with a lot of other programs across the nation.
Posted on 1/19/17 at 9:16 am to Hawgeye
Lol at Arkansas fans trying to relive the glory days of when they weren't trash
Posted on 1/19/17 at 9:16 am to Triple Daves
quote:
But yea - I'd say my list would be something like
Tier 1 - Kentucky
Tier 2 - Arkansas, Florida
Tier 3 - LSU (mainly due to Final 4s compared to UT/Bama, rest is pretty even), Missouri
Tier 4 - Tennessee, Alabama
Tier 5 - Mississippi State, Vanderbilt
Tier 6 - Auburn, Georgia, Texas A&M
Tier 7 - Ole Miss
I may would move State up one because they do have one final four, don't they? Where would you put South Carolina?
Posted on 1/19/17 at 9:17 am to Pelican fan99
quote:
Lol at Arkansas fans trying to relive the glory days of when they weren't trash
Eh?
Thats seriously what you get from this thread?
Posted on 1/19/17 at 9:19 am to Hawgeye
quote:
I may would move State up one because they do have one final four, don't they? Where would you put South Carolina?
Yea, State is a tough one. They are clearly behind Alabama and Tennessee in basically every stat group, but they do have a Final Four.
Knew I forgot one. Probably Tier 6 - they have had more overall success than Ole Miss but they've only been to the NCAAT 8 times.
Posted on 1/19/17 at 9:22 am to Triple Daves
SEC By NCAAT Appearances
1. Kentucky - 55
2. Arkansas - 30
3. Missouri - 25
4. LSU - 21
5. Tennessee - 20
6. Alabama - 19
7. Florida - 17
8. Vanderbilt - 14
9. Texas A&M - 13
10. Georgia - 10
10. Mississippi State - 10
12. Auburn - 8
12. Ole Miss - 8
12. South Carolina - 8
SEC By NCAAT Sweet 16s
1. Kentucky - 41
2. Arkansas - 10
2. Florida - 10
4. LSU - 9
5. Alabama - 8
6. Missouri - 7
6. Tennessee - 7
8. Vanderbilt - 6
9. Auburn - 4
9. Texas A&M - 4
11. Mississippi State - 3
11. South Carolina - 3
13 Georgia - 2
14. Ole Miss - 1
1. Kentucky - 55
2. Arkansas - 30
3. Missouri - 25
4. LSU - 21
5. Tennessee - 20
6. Alabama - 19
7. Florida - 17
8. Vanderbilt - 14
9. Texas A&M - 13
10. Georgia - 10
10. Mississippi State - 10
12. Auburn - 8
12. Ole Miss - 8
12. South Carolina - 8
SEC By NCAAT Sweet 16s
1. Kentucky - 41
2. Arkansas - 10
2. Florida - 10
4. LSU - 9
5. Alabama - 8
6. Missouri - 7
6. Tennessee - 7
8. Vanderbilt - 6
9. Auburn - 4
9. Texas A&M - 4
11. Mississippi State - 3
11. South Carolina - 3
13 Georgia - 2
14. Ole Miss - 1
This post was edited on 1/19/17 at 9:28 am
Posted on 1/19/17 at 9:22 am to Triple Daves
quote:
Knew I forgot one. Probably Tier 6 - they have had more overall success than Ole Miss but they've only been to the NCAAT 8 times.
Yea. For some reason I thought they had been more times. I would agree with those two being at the bottom.
Though Auburn only has 8 NCAA invites as well, but they have made an Elite Eight in 1986.
This post was edited on 1/19/17 at 9:24 am
Posted on 1/19/17 at 9:23 am to Triple Daves
Missouri has one elite 8 appearance and 0 regular season conference titles. They are also one of the few 2 seeds to lose to a 15.
Posted on 1/19/17 at 9:25 am to Hawgeye
quote:
Thats seriously what you get from this thread?
Its just a really bad troll attempt, but bless his heart he made the effort. If you try to discuss the issue and use facts you'll just cause him to question his sexuality and perhaps take his own life. Best to just nod politely to him and say something like "Yes, yes, of course it is."
Speaking of LSU though, they've made a couple of Final 4s right? So that would put them as a fairly solid third tier team in SEC basketball. Which isn't an insult because making the Final 4 takes a really good team most years.
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