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re: Per Sports Illustrated, the CFP expansion to 12 teams is in peril
Posted on 9/23/21 at 6:54 am to Jjdoc
Posted on 9/23/21 at 6:54 am to Jjdoc
quote:
It offers a platform for recruiting to shift. If it's 4 teams, those same teams will continue to recruit the top players because of that status.
Getting blow outs does not help a team recruit. Recruits want a program they go to to play big time games against big time opponents. When I was choosing a school a Coastal Carolina/Alabama would not move the needle.
quote:Yes, because nobody wants to go to Alabama, Ohjio State, Clemson. They want to go to Coastal Carolina. The best recruits want to go to a place they can win championships. There are, no doubt the exception, though. But there is a reason championship teams recruit well, and teams that continually fall out of the top 10 rankings do not.
When you increase it, players see that they don't have to ride the bench for 3 years to get to play and be seen. They know they can go to that #12 school, get seen early and STILL make the play offs.
quote:So, if Coastal Carolina goes to the Sugar Bowl their fans won't go? A game in which they are matched up against a team they might actually have a shot to win?
I prefer to see a better field of competition that results in fans not giving up on the season. Therefore continue to go to games and you see growth.
quote:But Coastal Carolina cannot make those claims. You are making my argument for me and don't even realize it.
That's our calling card. Come to Bama and you know you will be on a national championship team at some point, but you will always be in the play offs... plus get paid.
1. Even in a 12 team playoff Coastal Carolina will not make it very often.
2. Coastal Carolina (or UCF, or Memphis) would never win it.
3. Go through the last 10 years of playoffs and check the last week of rankings before the playoffs and see how many times the same team pops up in the top 12 teams.
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Posted on 9/23/21 at 6:58 am to Jjdoc
quote:
If we don't... you will slowly see the death of the game.
We are seeing the slow death of the game now. And it's not because we currently have a 12 team playoff. It's because we keep screwing with the game with meaningless rule changes and going from format to format.
First people wanted the BCS format.
Then people wanted a playoff.
Now they want a 12 team playoff
Next they will want a 16 team playoff.
It is a never ending cycle of spiraling down to mediocrity. Everybody is a winner because everybody makes the layoffs. Result? Tons of garbage games.
Posted on 9/23/21 at 7:01 am to tigerfoot
quote:
We normally can't even find 4 that are worthy. Now we want to draw a line at 12, Jesus. Yes, that is what I want to see at the end of every year, a debate about A fourth place SEC team versus a third place Big Ten team, or if Liberty deserves a shot.
I agree 100%.
Not to mention Cincinnati, Memphis and Coastal Carolina will want their shots every year. We already had UCF wanting to claim a National Championship. Do we really want that happening every single year?
Posted on 9/23/21 at 7:03 am to bstew3006
quote:
12 is actually better than 8 for keeping the regular season interesting and important.
quote:
Bingo
Well, then. Wouldn't 16 be better, then? Or 32. 64?
Why don't we just pass National Championship trophies around to all P5 teams and 6 at-large teams? That would keep their fans more interested because "Everybody gets a trophy!" They are all in it!
Posted on 9/23/21 at 7:13 am to DawgsLife
quote:
There are two things that makes something valuable.
Rarity and demand. If 12 teams make the playoff, then it will no longer be a rare feat to make the playoffs.
This is literally one of the dumbest arguments ive ever seen against playoff expansion.
Sports aren't like a tangible product. You give people more interesting matchups and they will watch.
If the playoff expands, it likely involves matchups at the higher seed's home field. I think it should be 16 so there arent byes, so as of today those matchups could be:
Arky @ Bama
BYU @ UGA
Iowa State @ Oregon
Ole Miss @ Oklahoma
Now throw those out if you want 12. We still have
Notre Dame @ Iowa
Florida @ Penn St
Ohio St @ Aggie
Clemson @ Cincy
If you think those games wouldn't draw tons of eyeballs and rake in tons of cash, lay off the crack pipe hoss.
And yeah, we might only get like 1 upset per year at first, but I think playoff expansion will increase parity a bit and make the sport better overall.
Posted on 9/23/21 at 7:16 am to transcend
quote:
Everyone claims the additional playoff spots water down the regular season, but I’d argue adding the spots and requiring more conference games, rather than these wasted fcs games, increases the regular season value tremendously.
The only games the big boys have to lose even if we went to a 16 team playoff are the cupcake filler games. You're either playing a power 5 OOC team (or power whatever we end up with after realignment) or a conference opponent, then you go into the playoffs. Other teams will fill out the bowl games, and then teams that get knocked out of the playoffs can fill the better bowl spots depending on how far they make it.
Posted on 9/23/21 at 7:18 am to DawgsLife
The bigger of a playoff you have, the less of an argument these fringe teams youre complaining about have to "claim" a natty because they will be in the playoff and either win or get bounced.
Posted on 9/23/21 at 7:25 am to tigerfoot
quote:
We normally can't even find 4 that are worthy. Now we want to draw a line at 12, Jesus. Yes, that is what I want to see at the end of every year, a debate about A fourth place SEC team versus a third place Big Ten team, or if Liberty deserves a shot.
4 of the 7 years we've had the playoff, the winner has had a loss. And its been to teams like number 8 Virginia Tech, number 15 Ole Miss, unranked Pitt, and to number 6 Auburn.
So yeah, those teams didn't deserve a shot in a 4 team playoff, but people conflate that with not being capable of beating a top 4 team when we've seen that they can.
Posted on 9/23/21 at 8:45 am to TrussvilleTide
quote:
The bigger of a playoff you have, the less of an argument these fringe teams youre complaining about have to "claim" a natty because they will be in the playoff and either win or get bounced.
Which is pretty much my point. They don't belong there. Why kow tow to their demands just to pacify them. Tell them if they want to go to the playoffs they should go get into a real conference and play a real schedule.
UCF took a step in that direction and kudos to them. If they win the BIG 12, then they will have an argument. Kind of. I hate giving stuff to people just because they want to hold their breath and demand it.
Play a good schedule, then if you survive that you have an argument. Play a bunch of easy games with one semi tough game thrown in does not make you a contender.
Posted on 9/23/21 at 8:51 am to TrussvilleTide
quote:
4 of the 7 years we've had the playoff, the winner has had a loss. And its been to teams like number 8 Virginia Tech, number 15 Ole Miss, unranked Pitt, and to number 6 Auburn.
And none of them were good enough to be in the playoffs. How did those teams end up? Auburn ended up with 4 losses on the year with their season ending loss being to UCF. (Although, I will admit that if any had an argument it was Auburn.)
quote:Isn't the point of having a playoff to crown the best team in the nation? I mean if we are going to call the champions the 10th best team why play at all?
So yeah, those teams didn't deserve a shot in a 4 team playoff, but people conflate that with not being capable of beating a top 4 team when we've seen that they can.
I mean Troy beat LSU. Does that mean we should include them in the playoffs? I mean, they are capable. Everybody can have a bad game. That doesn't mean every team that is capable of pulling an upset should be included.
Posted on 9/23/21 at 9:03 am to TrussvilleTide
quote:
Sports aren't like a tangible product.
They absolutely are. Sports are big money and teams are traded, and sold all the time. Shoot, college players are even getting paid now. Packages are sold by TV and internet to watch the games. How is it not a tangible product? You can see them, hear them, play them. How is that not tangible?
quote:Absolutely. And you are doing away with the interesting match ups at the end of the year. Alabama vs Coastal Carolina is not interesting.
You give people more interesting matchups and they will watch.
Teams playing each other that are perceivably close in ability are interesting. by including them into the playoffs you are taking away their Sugar Bowl game against a 2-4 best SEC team. Do you REALLY want to see UCF against Alabama in which there is no way they will win, or would you rather see UCF in the Sugar Bowl against the #3 or #4 SEC team in which they just might have a chance?
quote:
If the playoff expands, it likely involves matchups at the higher seed's home field.
Not gonna happen. They will want to include the Bowls in some way. What you will end up with is the Texas Bowl equivalent being added to the Playoffs and touted as a big game...then watching Ohio State beat UCF 56-7.
quote:Curious. How will it increase parity?
And yeah, we might only get like 1 upset per year at first, but I think playoff expansion will increase parity a bit and make the sport better overall.
Posted on 9/23/21 at 9:05 am to JetDawg
When you routinely see blowouts in these CFP games and nearly everyone penciled in about 3-4 teams as the only REALISTIC NC winners, the evolution of talks in an expansion seems so dumb.
Posted on 9/23/21 at 9:06 am to TrussvilleTide
quote:
The bigger of a playoff you have, the less of an argument these fringe teams youre complaining about have to "claim" a natty because they will be in the playoff and either win or get bounced.
That's incorrect. We had that argument when they wanted to go to a 4 team playoff. now the #5-7 teams argue and claim they should be in it. Go to 12 teams and the #13-17 teams will argue they should be in it, and the G5 teams will get louder than THEY should be included. Look at UCF for proof. I mean, they have a National Championship, right? Do you remember a year in which some team has not argued they belonged in the playoffs? It will get worse.
Posted on 9/23/21 at 10:01 am to DawgsLife
quote:
Isn't the point of having a playoff to crown the best team in the nation? I mean if we are going to call the champions the 10th best team why play at all?
If the 10 seed wins the game they've actually earned it, like how is that giving out a participation trophy. The lack of logic is astounding
Of course a Georgia fan wants it to stay the same when they only have 1-2 games per year where they could even possibly lose.
Posted on 9/23/21 at 10:05 am to DawgsLife
quote:
Absolutely. And you are doing away with the interesting match ups at the end of the year. Alabama vs Coastal Carolina is not interesting.
if the "Best teams" are 1-4, why would we see Coastal at the end of the year if they weren't one of the best 4 teams? You think upsets are going to happen that often? If these teams on the fringe are so bad, how are they beating someone like Georgia or Oregon to get there at all?
You cant have it both ways. "these teams suck and shouldnt be there!" does not computer with "these teams are going to ruin good matchups because they will beat the actually good teams!".
March madness does pretty well with the chaos, and you don't hear people complaining about how Kansas or Kentucky doesn't win it every year.
And I think some recruits want to compete for a championship. If there is an expanded playoff, I think you see some of them more open to going to other schools that are in the 6-16 range in the rankings every year because now they do have that chance. I don't think it'll be some massive difference right away though, if ever.
Posted on 9/23/21 at 10:10 am to DawgsLife
quote:
That's incorrect. We had that argument when they wanted to go to a 4 team playoff. now the #5-7 teams argue and claim they should be in it. Go to 12 teams and the #13-17 teams will argue they should be in it, and the G5 teams will get louder than THEY should be included. Look at UCF for proof. I mean, they have a National Championship, right? Do you remember a year in which some team has not argued they belonged in the playoffs? It will get worse.
With 4 teams you're going to leave out some truly deserving squads some years just because not everyone can be in there. In 2019 Georgia and Oregon were at least as good as Notre Dame, but Notre Damge also deserved to be there. Its a LOT harder to argue that you deserve to be there when you start getting in the 13-15, 17-20 range. You'll absolutely get teams claiming they should have gotten an invite no matter how you do it, but not teams claiming championships.
Posted on 9/23/21 at 10:12 am to dhuck20
You think UGA would have gotten blown out like Notre Dame did in 2019 if we swapped them?
Notre Dame deserved to be there, UGA didn't earn it. But no way UGA gets embarrassed like that.
Notre Dame deserved to be there, UGA didn't earn it. But no way UGA gets embarrassed like that.
Posted on 9/23/21 at 10:40 am to TrussvilleTide
quote:
With 4 teams you're going to leave out some truly deserving squads some years just because not everyone can be in there.
Which makes the regular season more important. You better not lose. With 12 teams it's no big deal to lose one or two or even 3 games. You are still in.
Honest question....and I do enjoy talking to you about this...how many teams do you think are truly deserving in a typical year?
I can't name of any TRULY deserving teams that have been left tout. Which 5-12 teams do you think could honestly win the national Championship?
quote:No argument there, but Georgia did not belong in the playoffs. Shoot, you are making the case that only 3 teams deserved to be in there in 2019. LSU beat us 30-17 in the SECCG in 2019. that wasn't going to change if we had faced them in the playoffs. We also lost a horrible game to a bad South Carolina team. Oregom lost team Auburn team that lost 4 games and to an Arizona State team that lost 5 games.
In 2019 Georgia and Oregon were at least as good as Notre Dame,
Neither of those teams deserved to be in the playoffs. neither did ND. There were only 3 viable teams that year.
quote:It's a lot harder to argue that the #5-12 teams deserve to be there. More than likely they lost 2-3 games.
Its a LOT harder to argue that you deserve to be there when you start getting in the 13-15, 17-20 range.
Posted on 9/23/21 at 10:42 am to TrussvilleTide
quote:
You think UGA would have gotten blown out like Notre Dame did in 2019 if we swapped them?
You are arguing that because one of the teams in 2019 was bad we should expand and allow 8 more teams in? In your scenario ND still would have made it, and Georgia would have gotten beaten by LSU or Ohio State or somebody else. We were not that good in 2019.
Posted on 9/23/21 at 10:44 am to JetDawg
I would like it if it was Sankey dragging his balls all over it saying, no auto bids and must be in a conference or play 3-5 ranked teams to get in.
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