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re: North Carolina AD wants 40% increase in UNC's athletic revenues
Posted on 4/16/13 at 2:20 pm to Bags of Milk
Posted on 4/16/13 at 2:20 pm to Bags of Milk
Realignment winners and losers based on AAU schools
SEC had a net gain of 2 schools of 2 schools added : 100%
- 0 = Nobody left
+ 2 = Texas A&M and Missouri added
B1G had a net gain of 2 schools of 3 schools added : 67%
- 0 = Nobody left
+ 2 = Maryland and Rutgers. Nebraska was dropped as an AAU school in 2011
PAC had a net gain of 1 school of 2 schools added : 50%
- 0 = Nobody left
+ 1 = Colorado and Utah added
ACC had a net gain of 0 schools of 4 schools added : 25%
- 1 = Maryland left
+ 1 = Pittsburgh, Notre Dame, and Louisville added. Syracuse was dropped as an AAU school in 2011
Big 12 had a net loss of 4 schools of 2 schools added : 0%
- 4 = TAMU, Colorado, Nebraska, and Missouri left
+ 0 = TCU and West Virginia added
Looking at this simple graphic it is easy to see that the SEC + B1G + PAC are more stable than the ACC or B12. Long term the handwriting is on the wall about how strong the ACC will be 10 years from now. At least the B12 has Texas and Oklahoma which may exceed the ACC combined from a sports value and media deal.
SEC had a net gain of 2 schools of 2 schools added : 100%
- 0 = Nobody left
+ 2 = Texas A&M and Missouri added
B1G had a net gain of 2 schools of 3 schools added : 67%
- 0 = Nobody left
+ 2 = Maryland and Rutgers. Nebraska was dropped as an AAU school in 2011
PAC had a net gain of 1 school of 2 schools added : 50%
- 0 = Nobody left
+ 1 = Colorado and Utah added
ACC had a net gain of 0 schools of 4 schools added : 25%
- 1 = Maryland left
+ 1 = Pittsburgh, Notre Dame, and Louisville added. Syracuse was dropped as an AAU school in 2011
Big 12 had a net loss of 4 schools of 2 schools added : 0%
- 4 = TAMU, Colorado, Nebraska, and Missouri left
+ 0 = TCU and West Virginia added
Looking at this simple graphic it is easy to see that the SEC + B1G + PAC are more stable than the ACC or B12. Long term the handwriting is on the wall about how strong the ACC will be 10 years from now. At least the B12 has Texas and Oklahoma which may exceed the ACC combined from a sports value and media deal.
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Posted on 4/16/13 at 2:26 pm to winyahpercy
Basically it will boil down to if ESPN wants to keeps the ACC together by giving them a conference network as well.
ESPN currently only has (near) full control of two major conferences with the SEC and ACC. After that, they have the AAC and MWC.
You can for damn sure bet they don't want to bleed most of their most valuable schools from the ACC to the Big12 and Big Ten, both of which Fox Sports has major deals with.
ESPN can choose to create an ACC network to keep it together or they can risk losing UNC, Virginia, Georgia Tech, Florida State, Miami, Louisville, Syracuse, Clemson, Pitt, Duke, and Notre Dame while only keeping NC State and Virginia Tech. (sorry BC and Wake, off to the AAC with you)
That is a ton of content that they will not want going to Fox Sports.
ESPN currently only has (near) full control of two major conferences with the SEC and ACC. After that, they have the AAC and MWC.
You can for damn sure bet they don't want to bleed most of their most valuable schools from the ACC to the Big12 and Big Ten, both of which Fox Sports has major deals with.
ESPN can choose to create an ACC network to keep it together or they can risk losing UNC, Virginia, Georgia Tech, Florida State, Miami, Louisville, Syracuse, Clemson, Pitt, Duke, and Notre Dame while only keeping NC State and Virginia Tech. (sorry BC and Wake, off to the AAC with you)
That is a ton of content that they will not want going to Fox Sports.
This post was edited on 4/16/13 at 2:29 pm
Posted on 4/16/13 at 2:31 pm to WAOMrebears
quote:
Under any circumstances do I think that the ACC will fall apart but I know for a 100% fact that Duke will never be in trouble.
They will money whip whatever basketball coach they want from now until perpetuity. The waiting list and price for season tickets is ridonkulous.
Posted on 4/16/13 at 2:34 pm to Bama Bird
quote:
My guess is, the Pac 12 will be the next to move. The B1G and SEC are already at 14. When the SEC deal goes through, and the Big Ten deal is re-done to include Maryland and Rutgers, the Pac 12 will be forced to respond. Where do they turn? Texas. Once again, it will come down to whether Texas makes the move or not.
I don't think that will be the case. I think the Pac 12 is situated nicely and won't be making a power grab in the Lone Star State any time soon. They learned their lesson about trusting tu. They won't make the same mistake again.
Posted on 4/16/13 at 2:35 pm to TeLeFaWx
true but Cameron Indoor only seats 9,314
even A&M would have a waiting list with such a small arena.
even A&M would have a waiting list with such a small arena.
Posted on 4/16/13 at 2:38 pm to TeLeFaWx
quote:
The waiting list and price for season tickets is ridonkulous.
I take it you have not been to Rupp?
If the demand was that great for Duke basketball home games then Cameron would have been converted to WCBB and they would have built a new venue for the men. Look at the schools in the ACC and look at the venue size.
It would not surprise me to see UL dominate the ACC because they have the nicest modern basketball arena in the country and it seats 22,000 with liquor sales and lots of corporate partners. YUM (KFC, Taco Bell, and Pizza Hut) + Papa Johns + Long John Silvers all advertise and are based in Louisville. If you do not think they will want UL to start hosting the ACC tourney you are crazy.
Posted on 4/16/13 at 2:38 pm to Dr RC
quote:
even A&M would have a waiting list with such a small arena
Bit of a stretch but you're right. Duke would not get much more off tickets than they already are now.
Posted on 4/16/13 at 2:40 pm to WAOMrebears
quote:
If the demand was that great for Duke basketball home games then Cameron would have been converted to WCBB and they would have built a new venue for the men. Look at the schools in the ACC and look at the venue size.
This is how I know you don't know a damn thing about ACC basketball. You're entire statement is wrong. UNC has just as nice as facilities as UL if not nicer. Miami, Florida State, Wake Forest, and Virginia Tech all have nice facilities also. The only small venues are Duke and GT.
This post was edited on 4/16/13 at 2:45 pm
Posted on 4/16/13 at 2:48 pm to WAOMrebears
quote:
This is how I know you don't know a damn thing about ACC basketball. You're entire statement is wrong. UNC has just as nice as facilities as UL if not nicer.
My cousin played his college basketball in the ACC and that side of the family has at least 5 generations of ACC alumni. I have been to the Dean Dome and YUM so I can tell you firsthand that in my opinion YUM is the nicer facility. I have also been to Cameron and the place is a dump.
Try again.
Posted on 4/16/13 at 2:49 pm to Dr RC
Didn't the ACC sign away 3rd tier football rights in their most recentl TV deal? I'm almost positive they did. Which means the ACC network wouldn't yield much for ACC schools, since they could only really have basketball as a revenue sport on that channel.
ACC faaacked.
ACC faaacked.
Posted on 4/16/13 at 2:52 pm to BigD Ag
quote:
I have also been to Cameron and the place is a dump.
Just renovated it about three years ago.
Posted on 4/16/13 at 2:59 pm to WAOMrebears
quote:
Just renovated it about three years ago
Last time I was in there was for a game in early 2011 (the 2010 - 2011 season) and if it had been renovated then it was not noticed. I will probably be back down there for a game next season (2013 - 2014)
Posted on 4/16/13 at 3:01 pm to WAOMrebears
quote:
UNC has just as nice as facilities as UL if not nicer.
I am not doubting that you have been to the Dean Dome but have you ever been to a college basketball game in YUM?
Just curious?
Posted on 4/16/13 at 3:03 pm to WAOMrebears
I've been to the dean dome a few times. it's nice, but it's 30 years old. USC's Colonial Center is nicer is many ways because it's newer. YUM Center is the newest of the major facilities, built for the top revenue producing basketball program in the US, so i'm willing to bet it's a lot nicer than the Dean Dome.
Duke likes the tight confines of Cameron making it a tough place to play. they can't really justify the big arena because the Raleigh Coliseum and Dean Dome have the market covered for multipurpose facilities. if Duke were to try to build a larger facility, they run the risk of having non-sellouts and ruining the mystique of Cameron.
Duke likes the tight confines of Cameron making it a tough place to play. they can't really justify the big arena because the Raleigh Coliseum and Dean Dome have the market covered for multipurpose facilities. if Duke were to try to build a larger facility, they run the risk of having non-sellouts and ruining the mystique of Cameron.
This post was edited on 4/16/13 at 3:04 pm
Posted on 4/16/13 at 3:08 pm to BigD Ag
quote:
Didn't the ACC sign away 3rd tier football rights in their most recentl TV deal? I'm almost positive they did. Which means the ACC network wouldn't yield much for ACC schools, since they could only really have basketball as a revenue sport on that channel.
quote:
ESPN retains exclusive rights to all football and men’s basketball games. Additionally, ESPN retains the first selection rights to women’s basketball and all other ACC sports such as baseball, softball, soccer, lacrosse, etc. Whatever is not selected for coverage and distribution by ESPN from these sports is retained by the member institutions.
LINK
The way I read it is that ESPN pretty much owns everything of value but then has a separate deal with Raycom for a syndication package.
ESPN would have to decide if buying out their deal with Raycom's deal is worth it to keep the majority of ACC schools in their pocket.
This post was edited on 4/16/13 at 3:10 pm
Posted on 4/16/13 at 3:14 pm to TeLeFaWx
quote:
My guess is, the Pac 12 will be the next to move. The B1G and SEC are already at 14. When the SEC deal goes through, and the Big Ten deal is re-done to include Maryland and Rutgers, the Pac 12 will be forced to respond. Where do they turn? Texas. Once again, it will come down to whether Texas makes the move or not.
I don't think that will be the case. I think the Pac 12 is situated nicely and won't be making a power grab in the Lone Star State any time soon
I agree.
The PAC might want to expand but there are very few schools in the western half of the United States that would add anything to their business model. You can maybe see an argument for OU, Texas, and maybe Kansas but Texas doesn't want to share the pie equally and Kansas and Oklahoma are relatively small states that don't bring in a lot of pie. So that means the PAC is likely done expanding
The next big shoe to fall is where Virginia and North Carolina decide to go. Virginia and North Carolina are probably both cultural fits with the SEC but academic fits with the Big 10. North Carolina especially might prefer to stay in the ACC if the ACC were a viable conference but there is an increasing sentiment that the ACC will eventually crumble and they don't want a school like NC State to step into the SEC and eventually challenge them for state supremacy.
Posted on 4/16/13 at 3:19 pm to WAOMrebears
quote:
Do y'all realize that Duke has been a basketball powerhouse for 30 years, a great lacross school (yes northern states care about that), a good soccer and tennis team, and an academic powerhouse since it was founded. It has rich history and has an unbelievably wealthy alumni. Under any circumstances do I think that the ACC will fall apart but I know for a 100% fact that Duke will never be in trouble.
You really don't understand how this works, do you? This about revenue. Nothing more, nothing less. Being an academic power house is meaningless when it comes to ESPN looking for TV sets and TV contracts. Silly little sports that are money suckers and not money producers like Lacross and Tennis with a couple hundred fans that pay $5 to watch a game and are not televised are not part of the equation either. ESPN and the big conferences don't give one crap about academics or any of the goofy money sucking sports you just mentioned. So like I and others have noted, outside of basketball, Duke brings little to nothing to the table as far as being a revenue producing athletic department with a big fan base(TV's). Just like Kansas almost got left in the cold last year when the Big12 almost imploded even with their great bball program, the same exact thing could happen to Duke. Not saying it will, but in this new era of TV revenue driven almost exclusively by football viewership, acting like Duke is bullet proof is rediculous.
This post was edited on 4/16/13 at 3:23 pm
Posted on 4/16/13 at 3:24 pm to tider04
quote:
Duke brings little to nothing to the table as far as being a revenue producing athletic department with a big fan base(TV's).
I used to assume this but have been surprised to learn Duke's athletic department produces a very respectable amount of revenue (pretty much exactly the same amount as North Carolina for example).
LINK
quote:
TOTAL REVENUES
Florida State – 81,444,039
Virginia – 81,321,219
North Carolina – 78,830,350
Duke – 78,604,895
Clemson – 66,988,424
Boston College – 66,197,029
N.C. State – 65,507,243
Virginia Tech – 64,801,681
Maryland – 62,612,370
Miami – 62,099,601
Georgia Tech – 60,253,966
Wake Forest – 48,776,185
Posted on 4/16/13 at 3:29 pm to molsusports
quote:
I used to assume this but have been surprised to learn Duke's athletic department produces a very respectable amount of revenue (pretty much exactly the same amount as North Carolina for example).
Noted. That said, those numbers are in the current model. As we increasingly move toward super conferences driven by TV revenue(which is driven by football) UNC has a much higher cieling than Duke. That's undeniable, which is why UNC is so much more attactive than Duke to the Big10 and SEC right now. Heck, NCSU is much more attractive for the same reasons...which is why Duke could get left out if the chips fall wrongly for them. Ask Kansas about the panic mode they were in last year.
This post was edited on 4/16/13 at 3:30 pm
Posted on 4/16/13 at 3:35 pm to tider04
quote:
those numbers are in the current model. As we increasingly move toward super conferences driven by TV revenue(which is driven by football) UNC has a much higher cieling than Duke. That's undeniable, which is why UNC is so much more attactive than Duke to the Big10 and SEC right now.
Again, I understand that assumption (and probably would have argued the same thing at times) but looking at the numbers I think the assumption is not safe.
Duke and North Carolina presently have nearly identical football revenues in spite of differences in stadium size that favor North Carolina. I think you have to wonder if Duke might not be able to match or exceed NC's football revenue if they actually committed to football with a larger stadium, better facilities, and admitting another 15-20 marginal students a year for their football program.
There may not be much if any difference even though I think North Carolina has been the bigger name athletic program
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