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re: MSU... Top 50 football program or not..
Posted on 7/14/12 at 2:27 pm to bamascott2
Posted on 7/14/12 at 2:27 pm to bamascott2
quote:
Judging by the last five years, 57 teams have a better W% than MSU. And we know that they're well below #58 histoorically.
By your logic, Nevada-Reno is a better program than South Carolina and Florida State.
Winning % means nothing unless you also look at strength of schedule. This should be basic logic.
1
Posted on 7/14/12 at 2:29 pm to MaroonNation
quote:
Well that's see dumbass. If we got to play the conferences of 3/4 of the teams above us we would have a much better record. Kind of like if Bama played in the Big X the would be #1 instead of Michigan.
You're either mad or have been overgrindin'. I have no clue what you meant.
Posted on 7/14/12 at 2:29 pm to cigsmcgee
quote:
things looking up though
How many times have we all seen this movie? Y'all think this is going to last? ( and yes Ole Miss is the same way)
Posted on 7/14/12 at 2:32 pm to Hump
quote:
By your logic, Nevada-Reno is a better program than South Carolina and Florida State.
Winning % means nothing unless you also look at strength of schedule. This should be basic logic.
You're # 58 in the last five years and much worse historically.
Do you want me to go conference by conference to tell you who's better?
Posted on 7/14/12 at 2:34 pm to OBReb6
they are loading up on cupcakes in ooc play.. when the conference goes to 9 conference games msu is in a world of trouble..
Jackson State
Troy
South Alabama
Middle Tennessee
not one decent ooc game
Jackson State
Troy
South Alabama
Middle Tennessee
not one decent ooc game
This post was edited on 7/14/12 at 2:36 pm
Posted on 7/14/12 at 2:34 pm to bamascott2
All-time record 507–544–39 (.483)
Posted on 7/14/12 at 2:36 pm to bamascott2
quote:
Judging by the last five years, 57 teams have a better W% than MSU. And we know that they're well below #58 histoorically.
MSU #58 in winning % the last 5 years
What does WP have to do with the level of a program? Probably the most illogical possible way to argue how good a program is. Using your logic, are you saying that Boise and TCU are superior to Bama? Is Tennessee a top 50 program? Our WP over the past 5 years is better...
Take the Sagarin ratings(like I did), Massey ratings, or some other unbiased metric that accounts for SOS to determine a program's level.
Posted on 7/14/12 at 2:42 pm to engie
quote:
What does WP have to do with the level of a program? Probably the most illogical possible way to argue how good a program is.
Well, frick! What do you want me to do? Elevate the strength level of the opponents that whipped that MSU arse over the years? Go by MSU's football facilities? The size of your 'jumbotron'?
JEEBUS!
Posted on 7/14/12 at 2:42 pm to OBReb6
quote:
How many times have we all seen this movie? Y'all think this is going to last?
IF state is able to hang on to mullen, i could totally see them cracking the top 25 more often than not.
Posted on 7/14/12 at 2:46 pm to bamascott2
quote:
Well, frick! What do you want me to do?
He just told you:
quote:
Take the Sagarin ratings(like I did), Massey ratings, or some other unbiased metric that accounts for SOS to determine a program's level.
Posted on 7/14/12 at 2:47 pm to Hump
look at this years OOC.. its pathetic.
Posted on 7/14/12 at 2:50 pm to OBReb6
quote:
Y'all think this is going to last?
Lasted the full decade of the 90s leading into a probation that wouldn't have happened under Mike Slive. Why would we assume that we can't sustain where we're at right now? We'll never sustain 8+ wins, that I agree with. But consistent @ 6-8 wins is a logical goal. Our recruiting improved last year, and this class is leaps and bounds ahead of that one at the same point in time. If we can win 6-8/yr(currently) with one top 25 class(2009), to go with 3 #38-44 classes(2008, 10, 11), how will we do with a string of top 25 classes('12 and projected '13)?
In alot of ways, our program is in much better shape now than it was in the 90s...the wins against elite teams just haven't come yet.
This post was edited on 7/14/12 at 2:53 pm
Posted on 7/14/12 at 2:53 pm to Hump
quote:
Well, frick! What do you want me to do?
quote:
He just told you:
quote:
Take the Sagarin ratings(like I did), Massey ratings, or some other unbiased metric that accounts for SOS to determine a program's level.
So we should judge a program's historical or recent success based solely on the SOS as assessed by a computer/or computers, and to hell with whether you won the games or not?
Are you serious?
Posted on 7/14/12 at 2:56 pm to bamascott2
quote:
Are you serious?
Are you mentally handicapped?
I'm saying you should use BOTH the winning % and the SOS. Using only winning % you end up with wonky shite like Nevada-Reno being a better team than South Carolina and FSU, and Boise State being better than Bama. Pay attention so we don't have to keep repeating ourselves.
This post was edited on 7/14/12 at 3:00 pm
Posted on 7/14/12 at 2:59 pm to MaroonNation
quote:
Wow. A gay Auburn fan flaming State. Color me shocked...
+1
Posted on 7/14/12 at 3:03 pm to Hump
quote:
Are you mentally handicapped?
I'm saying you should use BOTH the winning % and the SOS. Using only winning % you end up with wonky shite like Nevada-Reno being a better team than South Carolina and FSU. Pay attention so we don't have to keep repeating ourselves.
So...since I'm mental, please tell me how much weight should be placed on SOS as opposed to actually winning the games.
Go ahead...I'm interested in learning the metrics involved, however arbitrary you can make them, to prove that MSU is a top 50 program.
And I know that there's gonna be formulae and hopscotch time frames involved to do so.
This post was edited on 7/14/12 at 3:04 pm
Posted on 7/14/12 at 3:06 pm to Al Bundy Bulldog
You mad.. Cause you support a mediocre football program! 
Posted on 7/14/12 at 3:09 pm to MsGarrison
quote:
MsGarrison
And why the frick did you post a thread to make me argue with a MSU fan about MSU's significance???
That should be a first for me around here.
Posted on 7/14/12 at 3:09 pm to MsGarrison
How is Kenner treating you?
Posted on 7/14/12 at 3:10 pm to bamascott2
quote:
So we should judge a program's historical or recent success based solely on the SOS as assessed by a computer/or computers, and to hell with whether you won the games or not?
You clearly have a pretty good understanding of how the computer rankings work.
Yep, they just use SOS as determined by a computer as 1/3 of the BCS formula. Why we all aren't just playing 12 tough games is beyond me, since it would guarantee us a 33% chance of being in the BCS title game.
Allow me to explain how this works... The computer formulas attempt to determine how good a team ACTUALLY is in regards to ranking. They do this via complex mathematical evaluations of wins and losses vs SOS. Anotherwords, they operate on the assumption that a 6-6 SEC team may not truly be worse than a 8-4 Mountain West team. If these two teams don't play, how do you know which is better? That's what the formulas are there to decide.
quote:
So...since I'm mental, please tell me how much weight should be placed on SOS as opposed to actually winning the games.
You ask us to determine this for you, but that's essentially what I already did by pointing you to the computer rankings. There are 6 easily available rankings that are used to determine the BCS national championship. Each one carries a weight of 5.5% in the BCS formula(the equivalent of 11 voters in each poll). No possible way WE could come up with any better formula than these nationally renowned mathematicians/statisticians.
Sagarin says we were the 31st best team in the country last year, against the #28 SOS. That's probably pretty close to accurate...
This post was edited on 7/14/12 at 3:31 pm
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