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re: Most infamous games in SEC since 1992
Posted on 4/30/14 at 12:05 am to NYCAuburn
Posted on 4/30/14 at 12:05 am to NYCAuburn
quote:
The contact with doucet.
Which happened before the tipped ball, therefore is interference.
quote:
Even if it had not happened. Explain how he could have been capable to catch the ball?
Without distorting physics.
With his hands.
1
Posted on 4/30/14 at 12:09 am to magildachunks
quote:
Which happened before the tipped ball, therefore is interference.
Do you know the definition of pass interference? It seems like I need to hold your hands through this.
quote:
With his hands.
How do his hands relocate yards away while traveling in a different direction catch the ball. I asked for a way that doesn't distort physics.
This post was edited on 4/30/14 at 12:09 am
Posted on 4/30/14 at 12:11 am to NYCAuburn
Ok, I really want to help you here, NYCAuburn. Let me break it down for you, in all seriousness.
1) Since the Auburn player made illegal contact with Doucet PRIOR to the ball being tipped by another Auburn player, it is PI.
2) The "uncatchable pass" part of the rule does NOT come into play for the trajectory of the pass with the tip. The "uncatchable pass" part of the rule says that if he was not illegally impeded, would he have been on line to catch the pass on its original flight path.
3) If you watch the video, and I literally just did having never seen the play before that I recall, Doucet would have been able to get at least a fingertip to the pass on its original trajectory IF not for the illegal contact by one defender which occurred PRIOR to the second Auburn player tipping the pass.
4) As such, for the sake of PI, the tipping of the pass by the defender does NOT matter because the foul occurred PRIOR to the pass being tipped.
1) Since the Auburn player made illegal contact with Doucet PRIOR to the ball being tipped by another Auburn player, it is PI.
2) The "uncatchable pass" part of the rule does NOT come into play for the trajectory of the pass with the tip. The "uncatchable pass" part of the rule says that if he was not illegally impeded, would he have been on line to catch the pass on its original flight path.
3) If you watch the video, and I literally just did having never seen the play before that I recall, Doucet would have been able to get at least a fingertip to the pass on its original trajectory IF not for the illegal contact by one defender which occurred PRIOR to the second Auburn player tipping the pass.
4) As such, for the sake of PI, the tipping of the pass by the defender does NOT matter because the foul occurred PRIOR to the pass being tipped.
Posted on 4/30/14 at 12:21 am to DoreonthePlains
quote:
1) Since the Auburn player made illegal contact with Doucet PRIOR to the ball being tipped by another Auburn player, it is PI.
No it isn't. Happens all the time with overthrown balls out of bounds. The qualifier for pi is it must be catchable. There is no getting around that
quote:
2) The "uncatchable pass" part of the rule does NOT come into play for the trajectory of the pass with the tip. The "uncatchable pass" part of the rule says that if he was not illegally impeded, would he have been on line to catch the pass on its original flight path.
The player must of had the ability to catch the ball with or without contact. Doucet would not have been able to catch the ball, with or without contact.
quote:
3) If you watch the video, and I literally just did having never seen the play before that I recall, Doucet would have been able to get at least a fingertip to the pass on its original trajectory IF not for the illegal contact by one defender which occurred PRIOR to the second Auburn player tipping the pass.
Original trajectory has nothing to do with this. This is your problem.
quote:
4) As such, for the sake of PI, the tipping of the pass by the defender does NOT matter because the foul occurred PRIOR to the pass being tipped.
Except for th definition of the rule.
Id still like someone to explain how he could have caught the tipped ball. It would have been physically impossible. Just like when you see balls thrown way out of bounds and contact being made. No pi call because it's uncatchable. original trajectory doesn't mean a thing. Contact is not the sole qualifier for pi.
This post was edited on 4/30/14 at 12:28 am
Posted on 4/30/14 at 12:42 am to NYCAuburn
What part of PRIOR TO THE BALL BEING TIPPED do you not understand?
That is what makes it PI. Even your argument about the NFL doesn't hold water because, 1: that is not hte same thing that happened here. 2: rule was implemented in 2009, 3 years after this incident. 3: NCAA is not NFL.
Hell, the SEC knew LSU got screwed on numerous calls, and the only thing they could do was back their officials in a ruling that made the entire country laugh at them. They said the officials got EVERY CALL right in that game.
That is bullshite.
"Auburn got away with one" game.
That is what makes it PI. Even your argument about the NFL doesn't hold water because, 1: that is not hte same thing that happened here. 2: rule was implemented in 2009, 3 years after this incident. 3: NCAA is not NFL.
Hell, the SEC knew LSU got screwed on numerous calls, and the only thing they could do was back their officials in a ruling that made the entire country laugh at them. They said the officials got EVERY CALL right in that game.
That is bullshite.
"Auburn got away with one" game.
Posted on 4/30/14 at 12:46 am to magildachunks
I'm guessing it the part about being a catchable ball. Here you since you didn't know. If you'd like I can explain further catchable vs not. But first I'd like a logical analysis of how it was physically possible for him to catch the ball
quote:
Defensive players legally may contact opponents who have crossed the neutral zone if the opponents are not in a position to receive a catchable forward pass. 1. Those infractions that occur during a down in which a forward pass crosses the neutral zone are pass interference infractions only if the receiver had the opportunity to receive a catchable forward pass.
quote:
Defensive pass interference occurs only after a legal forward pass is thrown (
quote:
When in question, a legal forward pass is catchable.
This post was edited on 4/30/14 at 1:02 am
Posted on 4/30/14 at 12:51 am to NYCAuburn
quote:
Id still like someone to explain how he could have caught the tipped ball. It would have been physically impossible. Just like when you see balls thrown way out of bounds and contact being made. No pi call because it's uncatchable. original trajectory doesn't mean a thing. Contact is not the sole qualifier for pi.
Where the ball goes after the tip DOES NOT MATTER because the PI occurred PRIOR to the pass being tipped. Balls thrown well out of bounds are uncatchable from the moment they leave the QBs hands because of the original trajectory.
Here, I'll quote from the 2009-2010 NCAA football rulebook the applicable parts of the rule then link you so you can scour the rulebook for something you think helps your case. As you can see, there is no addendum for IF a pass will be touched. The only thing that allows contact to be mad is WHEN the pass is touched. The only argument left to somewhat logically be made is that the refs deemed Doucet would not have been capable of halting his momentum and turning to catch an underthrown pass. However, the Auburn defender still blatantly tackled him, which by rule should be a penalty under Article 9 section k of 15 yards and an automatic first down.
quote:
ARTICLE 8. a. During a down in which a legal forward pass crosses the neutral
zone, illegal contact by Team A and Team B players is prohibited from the time
the ball is snapped until it is touched by any player or an official (A.R. 7-3-8-II
and III).
c. Defensive pass interference is contact beyond the neutral zone by a Team B
player whose intent to impede an eligible opponent is obvious and it could
prevent the opponent the opportunity of receiving a catchable forward
pass. When in question, a legal forward pass is catchable. Defensive pass
interference occurs only after a legal forward pass is thrown. It is not
defensive pass interference (A.R. 7-3-8-I, IV, V, IX-XI, XIV and XV):
1. When, after the snap, opposing players immediately charge and establish
contact with opponents at a point that is within one yard beyond the
neutral zone.
2. When two or more eligible players are making a simultaneous and bona
fide attempt to reach, catch or bat the pass. Eligible players of either
team have equal rights to the ball (A.R. 7-3-8-XII).
3. When a Team B player legally contacts an opponent before the pass is
thrown (A.R. 7-3-8-XIII).
4. When a Team A potential kicker, from scrimmage kick formation,
simulates a scrimmage kick by throwing the ball high and deep, and
contact by a Team B player occurs.
ARTICLE 9. a. Either Team A or Team B legally may interfere with opponents
behind the neutral zone.
b. Players of either team legally may interfere beyond the neutral zone after the
pass has been touched (A.R. 7-3-9-II).
c. Defensive players legally may contact opponents who have crossed the
neutral zone if the opponents are not in a position to receive a catchable
forward pass.
1. Those infractions that occur during a down in which a forward pass
crosses the neutral zone are pass interference infractions only if the
receiver had the opportunity to receive a catchable forward pass.
2. Those infractions that occur during a down in which a forward pass does
not cross the neutral zone are Rule 9-3-4 infractions and are penalized
from the previous spot.
d. Pass interference rules apply only during a down in which a legal forward
pass crosses the neutral zone (Rules 2-19-3 and 7-3-8-a and c) (A.R. 10-2-
2-XXIV).
e. Contact by Team B with an eligible receiver involving a personal foul that
interferes with the reception of a catchable pass may be ruled either as
pass interference or as a personal foul with the 15-yard penalty enforced
from the previous spot. Rule 7-3-8 is specific about contact during a pass.
However, if the interference involves an act that ordinarily would result in
disqualification, the fouling player must leave the game.
f. Physical contact is required to establish interference.
g. Each player has territorial rights, and incidental contact is ruled under
“attempt to reach…the pass’’ in Rule 7-3-8. If opponents who are beyond
the line collide while moving toward the pass, a foul by one or both players
is indicated only if intent to impede the opponent is obvious. It is pass
interference only if a catchable forward pass is involved (A.R. 7-3-9-I).
h. Pass interference rules do not apply after the pass has been touched
anywhere inbounds by an inbounds player or has touched an official. If an
opponent is fouled, the penalty is for the foul and not pass interference (A.R.
7-3-9-II).
i. After the pass has been touched, any player may execute a legal block
during the remaining flight of the pass.
j. Tackling or grasping a receiver or any other intentional contact before he
touches the pass is evidence that the tackler is disregarding the ball and is
therefore illegal.
k. Tackling or running into a receiver when a forward pass obviously is
underthrown or overthrown is disregarding the ball and is illegal. This is not pass interference but a violation of Rule 9-1-2-f and is penalized 15
yards from the previous spot plus a first down. Flagrant offenders shall be
disqualified.
2009-2010 NCAA Football Rulebook
Posted on 4/30/14 at 12:53 am to NYCAuburn
It isnt about whether the ball is actually catchable or not, its that the receiver is given the benefit of the doubt until the defense actually makes a play. Your entire premise is built on the fact that the ref correctly exorcised judgement when the reality is it wasnt his judgement to make per the rules. If the receiver was contacted prior to the tip, its PI.
Posted on 4/30/14 at 12:54 am to DoreonthePlains
Congrats you found the rule, now read it. Or do you need to continue to quote it for you.
Posted on 4/30/14 at 12:54 am to NYCAuburn
quote:By not being interfered with in the first place, asswipe. He wasn't allowed to make his own play on the ball. Now STFU.
How do his hands relocate yards away while traveling in a different direction catch the ball. I asked for a way that doesn't distort physics.
Posted on 4/30/14 at 12:55 am to DoreonthePlains
Boom 
Posted on 4/30/14 at 12:55 am to DoreonthePlains
quote:
Tackling or grasping a receiver or any other intentional contact before he
touches the pass is evidence that the tackler is disregarding the ball and is
therefore illegal.
k. Tackling or running into a receiver when a forward pass obviously is
underthrown or overthrown is disregarding the ball and is illegal. This is not pass interference but a violation of Rule 9-1-2-f and is penalized 15
yards from the previous spot plus a first down. Flagrant offenders shall be
disqualified.
Posted on 4/30/14 at 12:57 am to Roger Klarvin
quote:
isnt about whether the ball is actually catchable or not,
Are you seriously stating this even after the rule has been posted.
quote:
Your entire premise
My premise is based upon the definition of the rule. Please read it. See what qualifiers must be present for pi, then come back. Remember contact isn't the sole qualifier.
Posted on 4/30/14 at 12:57 am to Roger Klarvin
Did you read the rule he posted? Goes against everything you've stated.
Posted on 4/30/14 at 12:58 am to JuiceTerry
quote:
By not being interfered with in the first place, asswipe. He wasn't allowed to make his own play on the ball. Now STFU.
So I take it you have not seen the play or you are just plain dumb.
Posted on 4/30/14 at 12:59 am to NYCAuburn
quote:
Did you read the rule he posted? Goes against everything you've stated.
Which sections refute his claims?
Posted on 4/30/14 at 1:00 am to NYCAuburn
quote:
Defensive players legally may contact opponents who have crossed the neutral zone if the opponents are not in a position to receive a catchable forward pass. 1. Those infractions that occur during a down in which a forward pass crosses the neutral zone are pass interference infractions only if the receiver had the opportunity to receive a catchable forward pass.
This doesnt apply to this situation. Doucet had an opportunity to catch a forward pass. This rule is to protect defenders fighting through blocks when the ball is thrown in a completely different direction, such as on a screen or a pick play.
Posted on 4/30/14 at 1:03 am to NYCAuburn
Defensive pass interference is contact beyond the neutral zone by a Team B
player whose intent to impede an eligible opponent is obvious and it could
prevent the opponent the opportunity of receiving a catchable forward
pass. When in question, a legal forward pass is catchable.
Notice no mention of balls tipped after contact. You lose.
player whose intent to impede an eligible opponent is obvious and it could
prevent the opponent the opportunity of receiving a catchable forward
pass. When in question, a legal forward pass is catchable.
Notice no mention of balls tipped after contact. You lose.
Posted on 4/30/14 at 1:03 am to NYCAuburn
quote:
Are you seriously stating this even after the rule has been posted.
Your incorrect interpretation of the rules in no way discredits anything Ive said. You are taking a rule to mean something it does not and simply making up your own definition of an uncatchable pass.
Again, a pass in the field of play headed straight for a receiver is catchable regardless of what the defense is doing prior to the ball making contact with anyone.
Posted on 4/30/14 at 1:04 am to Roger Klarvin
quote:
Doucet had an opportunity to catch a forward pass.
Now that we have defined the rule do I need to explain what a catchable forward pass is. He absolutely did not have the ability to catch the ball. He would have had to change trajectory in mid air and move about 2 yards or more in the opposite direction he was moving.
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