re: Mizzou DE Michael Sam comes out

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I agree with what you're saying, but if homosexuality is innate, isn't pedophilia? I find most people not to believe pedophilia is innate and is indeed a choice, while homosexuality is not.

Obviously, I'm not saying pedophiles shouldn't be charged with crimes because there is a victim here. However, my point is that if you believe one is innate, then the others must be innate too.

Also, people believing homosexuality is genetic without proof are being intellectually dishonest. You telling me to take your word for it is like me telling you to take my word for it that the bible is truth.

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I don't know and I don't care if it's innate. I care about outcomes. Two homosexuals consenting to engage in certain behaviors with each other = no victims. A pedophile having sex with a child, who by definition cannot consent = there is a victim.

I literally don't care if homosexuality is innate or not. It doesn't enter into my equation. It's not my business.

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If someone says they're gay or I read a story about someone coming out, I'm expected to say something about how "brave" and "awesome" it is and how we as a society are moving forward

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this is not true.

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So you just want them to all be celibate?

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I think you are confused. I don't want anything from them. It doesn't change that homosexuality is identified as a sin. Our discussion was limited to your offense of that label.

We are all sinners. We sin early in our lives before we might be said to have the cognitive function to resist sin. We are innate in being sinners and homosexuality is not unique.

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This is the main thing.

If someone says they're gay or I read a story about someone coming out, I'm expected to say something about how "brave" and "awesome" it is and how we as a society are moving forward. If I say nothing I'm called a bigot. If i call it a sin, I'm a bigot.

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This is ridiculous. If you say nothing, no one gives a shite. No one notices. If you want to celebrate it, cool, I'll celebrate it with you, because I think he did a good thing that will make it easier for other gay men in the NFL to be honest about themselves. I think that's a good thing.

If you never post in this thread, no one would even notice. My coworker who shares an office with me is Muslim and I know he won't approve of Michael Sam's lifestyle, and I don't care. I know how he feels and that's no skin off my back. But if starts spouting off about gay agenda and liberal media, I'm going to think he's an idiot. Maybe not a bigot, but an idiot with respect to this issue.

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But too often, when disagreeing with a sinful nature or act, the words bigot fly out, and a person is labeled as a hatemonger or intolerant, for simply having a belief and that narrative takes hold. Much like a few are trying to do now.

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This is true, but it likely stems primarily from those that are bigots in the name of Christianity which confuses the real message of Christianity to those who are not themselves Christians.

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ude, the proof is in the pudding.

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I guess i fail to see it.

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There's no genetic link to prove that some people prefer chicken to fish. I guess then you're telling me that these people don't actually prefer chicken to fish?

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Then it's not as innate as you believe and kind of justifies me believing it is a sin. If it's truly as trivial as food preference, one could choose not to sin. But, there are actually quite a few genetic links to food preference.

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Yes. I also believe that some people are born with a natural inclination to violence or destruction. That itself doesn't make it okay.

You yourself fully recognize the difference, as you did say that you "do not in any way think homosexuality should be illegal as it is victimless." Pedophilia is a fancy word for "child rape," as children can't consent to sex. I suppose you could say the same for bestiality (I, admittedly, don't really know a lot about what goes on there though...).

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Sure. I agree with everything you said. But, I guess my point was those people with predispositions can still choose not to engage in those activities, as they are sinful. No different than homosexuality, in regards to choice.

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What I mind or don't mind doesn't change whether God/Christianity views those things as sin or not.

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View it as sinful for as long as you'd like. Just understand that, for the millions of Americans (and billions of human beings) who don't share your religious beliefs, those arguments fall on deaf ears.

If I were a Muslim, and I were to tell you that you're going to hell because you don't bow to Mecca five times a day, you'd also not really care what I had to say, and you might even resent the implication that I somehow know how you should or shouldn't be living your life. If you understand that, then you can certainly understand why people like me, who don't share your religious beliefs, would push back on them.

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literally don't care if homosexuality is innate or not. It doesn't enter into my equation. It's not my business.

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My whole point is that if those people can choose, then gays can choose.

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but it likely stems primarily from those that are bigots in the name of Christianity which confuses the real message of Christianity to those who are not themselves Christians.

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In some cases yes. In many others, I would liken it to that of a parent and child. Nobody wants to be told they aren't supposed to do something that makes them feel good. Self gratification, is the only excuse and reason for some to reject Christianity and it's teachings. Who are they to tell me what is wrong?