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re: Louisiana Highschool State Championship game early celebration penalty.

Posted on 12/15/25 at 12:07 pm to
Posted by BamaBravesPackers
Member since Nov 2021
7816 posts
Posted on 12/15/25 at 12:07 pm to
quote:

The request was not granted.


If you go back and watch the play closely, with a focus on the top line judge, the clock, and the player that took his helmet off, you can see your statement just isn’t accurate. The official rules state that a timeout is granted when the referee signals to stop the clock and can’t be reversed once granted (unless there was some other thing stopping the clock prior to the granted timeout such as a penalty on a live play or a dead ball penalty immediately following the play such as a late hit…there wasn’t in this case and I’ll explain why). While we can’t see his arms, the line judge immediately begins running towards the head referee (and seems to be blowing his whistle from the audio) and should be waving his arms above his head granting the timeout. If he was not granting the timeout, he should have stayed near the sideline and only walked forward a few steps before going back into position for the next play. It’s clear he acknowledged and granted the timeout by running off the sidelines (and eventually even does the timeout signal as you see his feet turn the direction he would have turned to do the timeout signal, however it’s “granted” at the waving of hands to stop the clock).

The referee grants the timeout at 35 seconds on the clock, which is hilarious because that’s how much time was on the clock prior to the play. The clock operator didn’t start the clock on the snap as it should have. If you pay close attention, the player doesn’t even take his helmet off until the clock hits 33 seconds, a full 2 seconds after the ref had granted the timeout (or you can count the sideline judges steps and the helmet came off about 3-4 sideline judge steps later). This means he took his helmet off during a timeout because the timeout was clearly “granted” prior to the helmet coming off. I’m pretty sure the helmet coming off shouldn’t have been a penalty since it happened during a timeout.

The question becomes if the throwing the helmet during a timeout is a penalty, and that’s a judgment call. Lots of players throw stuff out of anger on their sidelines without penalties, however this was on the field during a timeout (somewhat away from other players, but still on the field). It probably should have been called, however the refs were more wrong to call it and give the timeout back than if they had just made a judgement call that since it was during a timeout, they weren’t going to call it. One is a judgement call, the other isn’t and isn’t open for interpretation.
Posted by BamaBravesPackers
Member since Nov 2021
7816 posts
Posted on 12/15/25 at 12:14 pm to
quote:

And before you say they would still have to grant the timeout even after the penalty is resolved then explain this. The timing option allows them to either run the clock or start it on the snap. If you are forcing that team to use the timeout then you take away one of their options as the offended team. If they want the clock to immediately start running (which they didn’t in this case) then the timeout would immediately kill it removing that as an option.


Because the refs got it wrong. The decision to stop the clock or not only comes into play if the penalty happens while the clock is running. Other than the clock operator botching the clock, this penalty happened a full 2 seconds after the clock had been stopped by the top line judge (or a full 3-4 steps by the line judge granting the timeout). It was a penalty that happened during a clock stoppage but the refs incorrectly interpreted it as a penalty that happened simultaneously to, or before the timeout was granted and thus gave the option. Refs got it wrong, unfortunately
Posted by Wolfhound45
Member since Nov 2009
126010 posts
Posted on 12/15/25 at 12:23 pm to
St Charles - 23
Shaw - 21
Posted by BamaBravesPackers
Member since Nov 2021
7816 posts
Posted on 12/15/25 at 12:25 pm to
quote:

St Charles - 23 Shaw - 21


that’s one way to admit you weren’t accurate. My wife does the same thing when she realizes she’s wrong


In 2024:
LSU 36
SC 33
Doesn’t mean the refs got the calls correct.
This post was edited on 12/15/25 at 12:28 pm
Posted by Wolfhound45
Member since Nov 2009
126010 posts
Posted on 12/15/25 at 12:27 pm to
Not really. They won and Shaw lost. You can thank their center, their coaches and their punter for that.
Posted by Floyd Dawg
Silver Creek, GA
Member since Jul 2018
4911 posts
Posted on 12/15/25 at 12:27 pm to
As an official, no they didn’t. They determined the foul occurred before the timeout was granted. End of story.
Posted by BamaBravesPackers
Member since Nov 2021
7816 posts
Posted on 12/15/25 at 12:29 pm to
quote:

As an official, no they didn’t. They determined the foul occurred before the timeout was granted. End of story.


Saying “End of story” doesn’t mean their determination was correct according to the rule book. It wasn’t. The rule is clear when the timeout is granted, and the video is clear about when that happened vs when the helmet came off. End of story
This post was edited on 12/15/25 at 12:30 pm
Posted by Wolfhound45
Member since Nov 2009
126010 posts
Posted on 12/15/25 at 12:32 pm to
quote:

…the video is clear about when that happened vs when the helmet came off.
No it is not. There is no official signal from the referee that a timeout had been called by St Charles. There is only the indication that the sideline official had been told by St Charles that they wanted to take a timeout. The referee did not accept it by signaling.

You can say this over and over again. It does not change anything.
Posted by BamaBravesPackers
Member since Nov 2021
7816 posts
Posted on 12/15/25 at 12:37 pm to
quote:

They won and Shaw lost.


Literally has no bearing on whether refs followed the rules. Quite the opposite actually.

quote:

You can thank the refs, their center, their coaches and their punter for that.


FIFY

If I had to rank them, the coach’s decision to kneel in shotgun victory formation after the penalty was the most inexcusable, followed by the helmet throw (he thought it was the last snap and it would have been if the other team didn’t have timeouts), followed by the refs not getting the rules correct, followed by the punter shanking it on a “quick punt” where his coach probably told him to kick it out of bounds to ensure they don’t get a return.
Posted by BamaBravesPackers
Member since Nov 2021
7816 posts
Posted on 12/15/25 at 12:40 pm to
quote:

No it is not. There is no official signal from the referee that a timeout had been called by St Charles. There is only the indication that the sideline official had been told by St Charles that they wanted to take a timeout. The referee did not accept it by signaling. You can say this over and over again. It does not change anything.


Wrong, the second he ran towards the head ref and blew his whistle is signaling the granting of the timeout. That’s why good officials put the clock back to where the initial granting happened. Once the sideline ref blows the whistle and waves his hand above his heads (while running off the sidelines as he does), the clock is stopped and the timeout is in place.
Posted by Wolfhound45
Member since Nov 2009
126010 posts
Posted on 12/15/25 at 12:40 pm to
quote:

…the refs not getting the rules correct…
You missed your calling life. You should have been an LSU fan.

Still taking applications though.
Posted by Wolfhound45
Member since Nov 2009
126010 posts
Posted on 12/15/25 at 12:42 pm to
He is getting the attention of the referee. Nothing more, nothing less. That is his job. The referee makes the determination on the call. He enforced the dead ball penalty and did not accept the request for a timeout.
Posted by BamaBravesPackers
Member since Nov 2021
7816 posts
Posted on 12/15/25 at 12:44 pm to
quote:

He is getting the attention of the referee. Nothing more, nothing less. That is his job. The referee makes the determination on the call. He enforced the dead ball penalty and did not accept the request for a timeout.


Brother, that’s not the rules. Any of the referees can stop the clock, not just the head referee. Once the line judge acknowledges he’s heard the timeout call, it has been “granted.”
Posted by BamaBravesPackers
Member since Nov 2021
7816 posts
Posted on 12/15/25 at 12:51 pm to
Ironically, the line judge, who is responsible for staring down the line where the penalty took place, didn’t even see the penalty happen because he had granted the timeout and was 3-4 steps up the field. That’s what should have been the refs first clue that the penalty happened after the timeout was granted.
Posted by theballguy
Member since Oct 2011
30666 posts
Posted on 12/15/25 at 1:16 pm to
Nah bro, I just disagree with your take on this. Nothing personal.
Posted by Wolfhound45
Member since Nov 2009
126010 posts
Posted on 12/15/25 at 2:05 pm to
quote:

That’s what should have been the refs first clue that the penalty happened after the timeout was granted.
He did not see the referee toss the flag. The referee made the determination on which took precedence. He did not grant the request for a timeout. He is in charge of the officiating crew.
Posted by BamaBravesPackers
Member since Nov 2021
7816 posts
Posted on 12/15/25 at 8:45 pm to
quote:

He did not see the referee toss the flag.


He not only didn’t see the flag, he didn’t see the guy take the helmet and throw it. That was literally my point.

quote:

The referee made the determination on which took precedence. He did not grant the request for a timeout. He is in charge of the officiating crew.


Yes, he overrode the line judge and made the wrong call in the process. None of your facts are wrong in this statement, and yet, none indicate the refs got it right. You haven’t yet been able to find facts that indicate they got it right…and you won’t be able to.
Posted by Wolfhound45
Member since Nov 2009
126010 posts
Posted on 12/15/25 at 8:58 pm to
It was a penalty. Dead ball. Unsportsmanlike conduct. Indisputable.
Posted by BamaBravesPackers
Member since Nov 2021
7816 posts
Posted on 12/15/25 at 9:02 pm to
quote:

It was a penalty. Dead ball. Unsportsmanlike conduct. Indisputable.


I get it, you can’t admit you’re wrong so you state facts that are true but leave out the important fact that proves you’re wrong. You ever thought about running for president?
Posted by Wolfhound45
Member since Nov 2009
126010 posts
Posted on 12/15/25 at 9:05 pm to
You are focused on the timeout. It does not matter. Even if that was a bad call you still can properly close out the game with two UNDER CENTER kneel downs and a well executed punt.

That is all on coaching.

Calls go against you. Good coaching and execution overcomes that.
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