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re: I guess it's Mizzou's week coming up. Unflattering OTL out
Posted on 1/24/14 at 9:23 pm to Cheese Grits
Posted on 1/24/14 at 9:23 pm to Cheese Grits
quote:
The tape that vanished is disturbing as it appears to validate the claim of the deceased and it was in the possession of someone who could have disclosed information that heath care providers could not.
Honestly I don't get this part at all. I am not at all at the point of being sure a tape exists or not. The person who claims to have received it, Rolandis Woodland, is her ex-bf and is on her side in this claming she was raped and that he confronted other players about it. Says that she was his best friend and that the loss is devastating to him. I just do not see how, regardless of her wishes, he doesn't take action when in possession of a tape like that, much less how he allows the thing to go missing after "showing it to a family member." Outside the Lines noticeably did not pursue this angle or evidence with nearly the same vigor that they did Mizzou's liability, and that's a shame. Which family member did he give it to? Where does he remember seeing the tape last? Why was the family member in question not interviewed for this article? As of right now the tape's existence doesn't seem like it would hold up in court very well, much less the alleged contents of the tape. Not to say it didn't exist but there are a whole lot of problems in that story that would need to be sorted out.
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Posted on 1/24/14 at 9:25 pm to Cheese Grits
You've got an issue.
This post was edited on 1/24/14 at 9:26 pm
Posted on 1/24/14 at 9:31 pm to MIZ_COU
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they did it in an insensitive bureaucratic way.
Strong possibility. Possible fix was to take it out of the AD staffer hands and place it back on her treating physician or back on academic staff. Even something as simple as a back channel conversation between the doctor and someone higher up in the food chain on the academic side.
Say doctor speaks "off the record" that now is not the time or place to deal with academic timelines until the patient is in a better position to deal with it. Person from academic side flags specific students records to be "frozen in time" until such time as they can be addressed by a clear and competent student. Since this clearly was not a normal thing you have to have a solution that fits the situation.
Posted on 1/24/14 at 9:31 pm to Cheese Grits
Who said the rape wasn't tragic and folks involved shouldn't be brought to justice grits? Show me one Missouri poster including me who said anything at all about the rape?
You are off on a tangent involving procedure in an attempt to find wrong doing by the university or the AD. Mizzou can't do anything about the rape if the institution didn't have knowledge of the event.
You point to this as a cause of her taking her own life but the fact she has a mental health history that involves a prior unrealated suicide attempt keeps being easily overlooked by you as well as the corresponding break up with her boyfriend and how that played a part in her mental health issues during that period.
There is some hypocrisy in you calling anyone out about deflection as you blissfully move the goalposts as the thread moved along.
You are off on a tangent involving procedure in an attempt to find wrong doing by the university or the AD. Mizzou can't do anything about the rape if the institution didn't have knowledge of the event.
You point to this as a cause of her taking her own life but the fact she has a mental health history that involves a prior unrealated suicide attempt keeps being easily overlooked by you as well as the corresponding break up with her boyfriend and how that played a part in her mental health issues during that period.
There is some hypocrisy in you calling anyone out about deflection as you blissfully move the goalposts as the thread moved along.
Posted on 1/24/14 at 9:31 pm to Cheese Grits
I have little doubt this lady was raped. Is that being debated? I haven't read the whole thread. All I've seen on the last couple of pages is talking about whether or not the University could/should have taken paperwork to her at the hospital.
Posted on 1/24/14 at 9:32 pm to Cheese Grits
quote:
#1 Meghan was an AD staffer, not a staff member from the academic side of Missouri.
She was on scholarship.
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#2 Sasha was legally incapacitated at the time - and it sure sounds like she was in a locked facility, or at least a locked ward.
Which is why she needed to withdraw.
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#3 No matter what the official policy timetable was, this was not the time or place to deal with it.
And yet the timing of the withdrawal to save her eligibility is not in question.
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#4 Clearly there was a downward spiral, and seems to support a precipitating event - in this case a self reported sexual assault.
Reported to whom?
Posted on 1/24/14 at 9:38 pm to Mizzou Fan in Da ATX
quote:
Honestly I don't get this part at all.
I tend to agree and can see only 1 possibility as most probable. I think Rolandis knew who the attackers were (especially if they were fellow players) and is caught between two sides. Much different to send someone you do not know to jail for years than to send a person you have lived around for several years.
quote:
Outside the Lines noticeably did not pursue this angle or evidence with nearly the same vigor that they did Mizzou's liability, and that's a shame.
I agree with this
Again, in the end the biggest losers will be her parents because the longer it goes unresolved, the longer they will not get closure.
Posted on 1/24/14 at 9:41 pm to Cheese Grits
I guess I don't understand why you are so focused in on the withdrawal papers. It seems to be the key issue to you and everything spiraled from there, but there is little evidence of that except for what you are imagining happening. You could be exactly right of course, but I think it's even more likely this was a minor point.
Was this a tragedy? Absolutely, a woman with a lot to offer is gone.
Did a rape occur? Seems so but there is almost no evidence. The victim is gone. What statements there are don't identify anyone. There may or may not have been a video that was too dark to identify anyone.
Is anyone going to go down for the rape? I don't see how.
Is there anything the AD could have done differently so that people were brought to justice? Again, I don't see how.
Is that a tragedy? Yes.
Was this a tragedy? Absolutely, a woman with a lot to offer is gone.
Did a rape occur? Seems so but there is almost no evidence. The victim is gone. What statements there are don't identify anyone. There may or may not have been a video that was too dark to identify anyone.
Is anyone going to go down for the rape? I don't see how.
Is there anything the AD could have done differently so that people were brought to justice? Again, I don't see how.
Is that a tragedy? Yes.
Posted on 1/24/14 at 9:41 pm to reedus23
quote:
I have little doubt this lady was raped. Is that being debated?
Honestly yes even that is up for debate, in terms of what exactly happened. The stories vary and her journal entries and claims about the incident are a bit all over the place in terms of what happened when and with who; the stories from Rolandis Woodland only further complicate things as he is adding another person in the room and also saying she was too drunk to know what was going on, which in turn only makes the reliability of her journal entries more difficult to ascertain. We just don't have access to all the evidence - no one party does right now - and until/if that happens the only result of threads like these will be endless spinning in circles. Which, by the way, is what ESPN wants most - continued interest, people forming opinions, digging in on the issue, wanting to know what happens next - watching the story develop...on ESPN.
Posted on 1/24/14 at 9:44 pm to Cheese Grits
quote:
I tend to agree and can see only 1 possibility as most probable. I think Rolandis knew who the attackers were (especially if they were fellow players) and is caught between two sides. Much different to send someone you do not know to jail for years than to send a person you have lived around for several years.
See I just can't assign any probability rating to that possibility at all. None of us know nearly enough about Roladis' motivations, the depth and meaning of his interrelationships with both deceased and the other players on the team, to really be able to make that leap yet. I understand the argument that he knew the players and wouldn't want to send them to jail, but his story is also that he was in a heated confrontation with them immediately - that he thought they had raped the person he says was his best friend. It would also mean that he is lying about having "lost" the tape after giving it to a family member in which case he would be impeaching his own credibility. Like I say I'm at a spot where I truly don't know if a tape like this exists or not. It may, it may not, but with what's been thrown at us I'm not able to assign any probability yet at all.
This post was edited on 1/24/14 at 9:46 pm
Posted on 1/24/14 at 9:44 pm to reedus23
quote:
I have little doubt this lady was raped.
I feel the same way
quote:
Is that being debated?
That is what I am trying to understand. It sure feels like some on here think she was not and it should all be dropped so it can be quickly forgotten. If a third party says she was clearly intoxicated - implying there could be no consent for the sex - and did not even remember the other men that seems to indicate a crime has occurred. How can you consent if you have blacked out?
Posted on 1/24/14 at 9:47 pm to Prof
quote:
Colleges and universities don't like dealing with mental health issues or rape. Administrators, from my experience, are particularly uncomfortable with students who need real help -- they'd rather you just go home so you're not their responsibility and tend to push students who are having problems out so there is cause for some concern whenever something like this occurs
I think it's more complex than this. Coaches have a responsibility to the athletes and to the team as a whole. The coach that they reference in the article was not the coach that recruited her - that coach left after her freshman year, I believe. Their concern for an individual athlete can't outweigh their concern for the entire team. If she had medical problems, which she did, that prevented her from being a contributor on the team, the best thing for everyone was for her to take time off and get healthy. They did not just take her scholarship away, or kick her out of school because she had problems, they tried to get her help. And they it in the hands of those best able to help her - medical personnel. I don't think it's that they don't want to deal with students that have mental health issues - it's that they're not equipped to.
In this case, though, I think her parents are looking for someone to blame. Which is human nature. But their daughter was mentally ill before she came to Mizzou, and had a failed suicide attempt over a broken relationship at 16. She moved quite far away from home (and her support system) for college. She claims to have been sexually assaulted, and probably was, but didn't tell anyone in a position to help her. In fact, she didn't want to pursue it. More than a year after the rape, after another broken relationship, she has another suicide attempt. And she was finally successful 2 months later. It's horrible. But her parents worked closely with the university to try and get her medical help for her illness. But they're in pain, and looking for someone to blame. Some blame can be assigned to the young men who assaulted her, assuming this actually happened, but the lion's share of the blame is on mental illness.
Posted on 1/24/14 at 9:49 pm to Cheese Grits
quote:
That is what I am trying to understand. It sure feels like some on here think she was not and it should all be dropped so it can be quickly forgotten. If a third party says she was clearly intoxicated - implying there could be no consent for the sex - and did not even remember the other men that seems to indicate a crime has occurred. How can you consent if you have blacked out?
You are all over the place.
Sad.
Posted on 1/24/14 at 9:51 pm to Cheese Grits
quote:
if there really was a gang rape then somebody needs to be brought to justice.
I doubt anybody disagrees with this. The fact is the university didn't do anything wrong and appeared to act within the necessary guidelines. If the girl doesn't report the rape to police, there isn't much that can be done. You can't character assassinate a bunch of college students based on what really amounted to a second-hand rumor involving a mentally unstable girl. Without a report from the victim, there is zero proof that it was not consensual. It may sound cold, but that is the harsh reality of this situation.
Posted on 1/24/14 at 9:52 pm to Mizzou Fan in Da ATX
quote:
Which family member did he give it to? Where does he remember seeing the tape last? Why was the family member in question not interviewed for this article? As of right now the tape's existence doesn't seem like it would hold up in court very well, much less the alleged contents of the tape. Not to say it didn't exist but there are a whole lot of problems in that story that would need to be sorted out.
Not speaking to the point of whether it could be used in court or not, but until there is some reason to believe it never existed, I don't doubt it did. I, personally, think he probably got rid of it himself. It wasn't misplaced. Whether it was smart to do or not I guess is debatable, but if my friend went a year and a half and never reported it to police and then mailed it to me so I get it after her death, part of me would say she didn't want to report so it's not my place to do it but I sure as hell don't want to keep this. On the flip side, I might have thought she sent it to me for a reason and what reason could there be besides the fact she wanted me to give it to authorities. I can see both sides.
Posted on 1/24/14 at 9:53 pm to Cheese Grits
quote:
How can you consent if you have blacked out?
Sounds like a legal issue that law enforcement is supposed to handle. If she came to university officials with a concern, they should have done something, but what the hell were they supposed to do? File a police report on her behalf? This is still America and the supposed rapists are innocent until proven guilty.
Posted on 1/24/14 at 9:54 pm to MIZ_COU
quote:
I guess I don't understand why you are so focused in on the withdrawal papers.
Because I have dealt with folks who are locked down many times and the last thing you do is go in directions that demand stable decisions in fragile times. While they are unstable you talk about the weather or about bland and mundane topics. When the meds and time kicks in you can gradually work back to bigger issues, but in that first 24 hours to say the first week or so you just take baby steps.
What I am a bit surprised about is that someone on staff did not catch this and put their foot down that the timing was bad to proceed. This is the part I am having a hard time with the most. A secure ward usually has the most aware staff to the issues lie this.
Posted on 1/24/14 at 9:55 pm to Cheese Grits
quote:
a person clearly died here and there appears to be a crime that caused this final event.
You really can't make that assumption. She claims to have been raped in February, 2010. She committed suicide in June, 2011. She attempted suicide in April, 2011, after breaking up with a boyfriend in March fo that same year. All more than a year after the alleged assault. In addition, during that year, she sustained a back injury that required her to wear a back brace for an extended period of time and made her unable to swim.
Perhaps the rape was a contributing factor, but you can't say it was the cause of her death. And regardless, she chose not to pursue it, or even make a report to anyone in authority that could help her with this issue. Including her parents.
This post was edited on 1/24/14 at 10:03 pm
Posted on 1/24/14 at 9:58 pm to Mizzou Fan in Da ATX
quote:
Honestly yes even that is up for debate,
It was a personal journal. Why was she lying to herself in a journal? That makes no sense. She wasn't going after anyone. She was seeking revenge. She didn't report it. She didn't go public. What possible incentive could she have to document it in a journal that was for her eyes only.
If she was too drunk to accurately write what happened to her, then she was too drunk to consent in my opinion. I'm not suggesting a police investigation is warranted at this point and I'm certainly not suggesting there is anything near enough to suggest any one person did it, but personally I have little doubt that she was raped.
Posted on 1/24/14 at 10:01 pm to roadhouse
Grits is free to connect whatever dots he sees fit to corroborate his narrative regardless of validity yet when a poster attempts to question the tenuous unanswered circumstances involving the rape, tape accounts etc they are vilified by him as wanting to wash away this event "quickly"
Like I said earlier, you see an opening to bash Missouri and you took it. You error on the side of Mizzou culpability when there is no clear evidence by making your assumptions but when it's flipped and people point that out or make assumptions of their own you are the first one to call them out.
You've the worst kind of intellectually dishonest and hypocritical thinker.
Bah.
Like I said earlier, you see an opening to bash Missouri and you took it. You error on the side of Mizzou culpability when there is no clear evidence by making your assumptions but when it's flipped and people point that out or make assumptions of their own you are the first one to call them out.
You've the worst kind of intellectually dishonest and hypocritical thinker.
Bah.
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