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re: I guess it's Mizzou's week coming up. Unflattering OTL out
Posted on 1/24/14 at 6:07 pm to Cheese Grits
Posted on 1/24/14 at 6:07 pm to Cheese Grits
quote:So, you are speculating based on 4 words in an article. Got it. You also failed to answer the question regarding the policies at the particular facility.
Based on the terms "3 day hold" and "involuntary" I would bet... 80% and probably in the 90's - she was in a locked facility... not 100%
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Posted on 1/24/14 at 6:07 pm to TigerMattSTL
quote:
quote:
True, but the same thing happened at Penn St.
Really?
What MU AD employee witnessed a rape?
And what MU AD employee(s) raped a student athlete? No, that comparison doesn't wash.
Posted on 1/24/14 at 6:12 pm to MIZ_STL
quote:I'll remind you of what was posted on the last page.
You also failed to answer the question regarding the policies at the particular facility.
quote:
Cheese Grits is pulling it out of her arse. The University of Missouri Psychiatric Center policy is that the nurses will inspect items for safety before allowing them in to be given to the patient.
Posted on 1/24/14 at 6:15 pm to MIZ_STL
quote:
Q: Do you have facts relating to Sasha's case?
A: No.
We are presented with facts from both MU and ESPN. We are also presented with "spin" by both sides to protect vested issues. ESPN gets ratings presenting their facts and Missouri is presenting their facts to bolster damage control as it could seriously damage the university if true.
My guess it is like a divorce where both sides want to paint the other guys as the evil one and they are the good guy. My gut tells me the real truth is somewhere in between. ESPN is probably adding fuel to the fire, but Mizzou is not totally innocent here. In my personal view something real happened and it was allowed to fester this long so it has now become a much bigger issue. The numbers of college football players at Mizzou is finite, especially if it is restricted to a single year. It was not like they were investigating every male in the city of Columbia.
Posted on 1/24/14 at 6:18 pm to Cheese Grits
quote:
My guess
quote:
My gut tells me
quote:Got it.
In my personal view
Posted on 1/24/14 at 6:20 pm to MIZ_STL
quote:
Got it.
But it's Grits, and Grits is totally unbiased.
Posted on 1/24/14 at 6:21 pm to Cheese Grits
quote:
My gut tells me the real truth is somewhere in between
Yeah, it usually is. And its not something that a forum like the Rant is ever gonna get to the bottom of. The chatter and traffic generated in threads like these is all that ESPN wants so that everyone in this thread will tune in to the TV spot on it this weekend. I'm sure for many, it probably worked. And Mizzou is having to tiptoe around the privacy issues of medical records, the procedures it did adhere to and didn't, while at the same time it is also its own PR machine and of course its in the university's interest to try to minimize its own liability to the extent it can.
It's a complicated, sad, convoluted issue and my heart goes out to the young woman and her family and friends, and I hope all of it is resolved properly. That will take place through the legal system perhaps eventually or whatever her parents and/or the university can figure out. We as spectators from afar aren't in much position to figure this one out on our own, and its going to be awhile until we are, b/c as you mention, for now neither source of information is without its strong potential biases.
This post was edited on 1/24/14 at 6:24 pm
Posted on 1/24/14 at 6:22 pm to MIZ_STL
quote:
The University of Missouri Psychiatric Center policy is that the nurses will inspect items for safety before allowing them in to be given to the patient.
Policy does not always reflect reality. Something as innocent as a newspaper - with no issue of safety - can be restricted if a doctor or staff feels it will cause stress or adverse reactions. Policy may be the broad strokes but reality may be much more limiting. I have been on wards where a person is limited to a few changes of clothes which are kept in a locker with access only by staff. Jail cells have more stuff in them than some locked wards. They are some of the most sterile and depressing places to be held.
Posted on 1/24/14 at 6:23 pm to Cheese Grits
quote:Cheese Grits decides reality
Policy does not always reflect reality
Posted on 1/24/14 at 6:26 pm to Cheese Grits
quote:
Policy does not always reflect reality.
In this case reality allowed for a patient to sign a document withdrawing her from school. There was no skirting policy by anyone in the university, as you earlier implied.
Posted on 1/24/14 at 6:28 pm to Mizzou Fan in Da ATX
quote:
It's a complicated, sad, convoluted issue and my heart goes out to the young woman and her family and friends
quote:
I hope all of it is resolved properly.
We agree on these points
quote:
We as spectators from afar aren't in much position to figure this one out on our own, and its going to be awhile until we are, b/c as you mention, for now neither source of information is without its strong potential biases.
At that is where the hammer meets the nailhead. Sadly, I am less inclined to think the real story will ever be reached which will mean no closure for her friends and family. Eventually this will become a "Lifetime" movie that is so far from the truth, but will become the perceived reality for most.
No winners in this.
Posted on 1/24/14 at 6:28 pm to Mizzeaux
quote:No. That's not the reality. Cheese Grits said the reality is that Sasha couldn't have signed it because she was in a locked facility. Because 3 days and involuntary. And reading between the lines.
In this case reality allowed for a patient to sign a document withdrawing her from school.
Posted on 1/24/14 at 6:30 pm to Cheese Grits
quote:
Policy does not always reflect reality. Something as innocent as a newspaper - with no issue of safety - can be restricted if a doctor or staff feels it will cause stress or adverse reactions. Policy may be the broad strokes but reality may be much more limiting. I have been on wards where a person is limited to a few changes of clothes which are kept in a locker with access only by staff. Jail cells have more stuff in them than some locked wards. They are some of the most sterile and depressing places to be held.
That's great, but you are ignoring the facts here. She signed a form to withdraw from the university to seek treatment in Canada where her and her family is from. She wasn't signing documents for the hell of it.
Posted on 1/24/14 at 6:31 pm to Cheese Grits
quote:
In my personal view something real happened and it was allowed to fester this long so it has now become a much bigger issue. The numbers of college football players at Mizzou is finite, especially if it is restricted to a single year. It was not like they were investigating every male in the city of Columbia.
You're probably right, something probably did happen to her. But if she doesn't report it, and doesn't want to pursue it, is the AD supposed to go on a witch hunt? She didn't tell her parents, or an administrator, or anyone other than 1 friend - who she told she did not want to pursue the matter. Oh, and medical personnel, who couldn't divulge it.
The situation is tragic, and I wish she would have reported it. Because now, 4 years after the fact, and 2 years after her death, there is no way, realistically, to investigate it. ESPN knows this.
I also don't think the timing of this article is a coincidence. They've been investigating it for months. Why today?
Posted on 1/24/14 at 6:31 pm to TigerMattSTL
If you want to talk about failures in psychiatric care, then ask how she got ahold of 100 Tylenol to commit suicide while under care at a Boston facility.
Posted on 1/24/14 at 6:32 pm to Cheese Grits
quote:
Something as innocent as a newspaper - with no issue of safety - can be restricted if a doctor or staff feels it will cause stress or adverse reactions.
And when the item would almost undoubtedly relieve stress? If she was a good student (unsure of her academic standing), she would likely be worried about the class time she was missing and how it would affect her grades and athletics. I would imagine signing a document which purports to protect her academically would be something positive.
Posted on 1/24/14 at 6:34 pm to TigerMattSTL
quote:That was a locked facility. I'm pretty knowledgeable about these types of facilities. There is no possible way that a patient in a locked facility could have access to those. /Cheese Grits logic
ask how she got ahold of 100 Tylenol to commit suicide while under care at a Boston facility.
This post was edited on 1/24/14 at 6:35 pm
Posted on 1/24/14 at 7:09 pm to semotruman
quote:
I also don't think the timing of this article is a coincidence. They've been investigating it for months. Why today?
Why do you think? My general feeling is unless it is protecting the ACC, ESPN hammers most everybody else most of the time. Are you suggesting they released it because of the Levi issue and they were piggybacking Tigers bad news stories?
Posted on 1/24/14 at 7:27 pm to Cheese Grits
quote:
Why do you think? My general feeling is unless it is protecting the ACC, ESPN hammers most everybody else most of the time. Are you suggesting they released it because of the Levi issue and they were piggybacking Tigers bad news stories?
Nope. I think it was an opportunity to slam an SEC school and create drama less than 2 weeks before national signing day. This weekend and next are arguably the two biggest recruiting weekends of the year. They'd been investigating this for months. So, it's a chance to damage an SEC school's recruiting efforts.
I think the story is absolutely tragic. I also think it's a hatchet job by ESPiN.
Posted on 1/24/14 at 7:33 pm to semotruman
quote:
I also think it's a hatchet job by ESPiN.
Yeah, probably should have added the LHN to the ACC protectorate.
quote:
So, it's a chance to damage an SEC school's recruiting efforts.
Seems like ESPN really pushes this point for M and W Basketball in the conference. I would be more concerned if they were doing it before Tigers sign for basketball if they sought to sway some to UNC, Duke, or Uconn. Looks like they are pimping for the Irish and the Cards now they are ACC schools. Sucks either way tho. Any player in particular you think ESPN is trying to flip?
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