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re: Expansion Options
Posted on 11/21/12 at 11:21 am to Scoob
Posted on 11/21/12 at 11:21 am to Scoob
Methinks you're not very educated on media markets and such if you're calling TAMU a medium guy. 
On top of that...TAMU could have gone B1G, Pac, ACC, or SEC. Alone.
OU cannot go to some of those. Some because of academics.
On top of that...TAMU could have gone B1G, Pac, ACC, or SEC. Alone.
OU cannot go to some of those. Some because of academics.
This post was edited on 11/21/12 at 11:22 am
2
Posted on 11/21/12 at 11:48 am to Scoob
WARNING: LONG CONSPIRACY POST. SKIP IF YOU HAVE ADHD
I wonder if the following conversation actually happened:
SEC "come on in"
Oklahoma "we'll think about it, but we want fairness"
SEC "we're fair"
Oklahoma "yeah, we've heard that before. Prove it"
SEC "how?"
Oklahoma "you serious about this? Ok, what's your plan?
SEC "we want you, and to go to 16"
Oklahoma "ok, we'll come, but you gotta take 3 others from the Big 8. We brought these cats in, we owe them"
SEC "no way. You're pretty, but not that pretty"
Oklahoma "ok, point taken. 2, plus A&M. We know you want them, we can pry them free of Texas"
SEC "interesting... so we already know you're bringing your baby brother in. Who else you propose?"
Oklahoma "Missouri" <laughing, trying to call SEC bluff>
SEC "Missouri? You serious? Why?"
Oklahoma "consider it proof things will be equal. You already have Vandy, let's see if you treat Missouri nice too. If you can do that, we have a deal next Christmas"
SEC "we're not taking Mizzou on faith alone. And we aren't taking them with OSU either. A&M at LEAST, just in case you screw us"
Oklahoma "ok, fine. We swing A&M, you take Mizzou. We like what we see, we're in"
SEC "you hose us, you're going down with Texas"
Oklahoma "we know. We were anyway. Trust us, we don't owe them anything. See you next Christmas. 2013 will be a good year"
<handshake>
I wonder if the following conversation actually happened:
SEC "come on in"
Oklahoma "we'll think about it, but we want fairness"
SEC "we're fair"
Oklahoma "yeah, we've heard that before. Prove it"
SEC "how?"
Oklahoma "you serious about this? Ok, what's your plan?
SEC "we want you, and to go to 16"
Oklahoma "ok, we'll come, but you gotta take 3 others from the Big 8. We brought these cats in, we owe them"
SEC "no way. You're pretty, but not that pretty"
Oklahoma "ok, point taken. 2, plus A&M. We know you want them, we can pry them free of Texas"
SEC "interesting... so we already know you're bringing your baby brother in. Who else you propose?"
Oklahoma "Missouri" <laughing, trying to call SEC bluff>
SEC "Missouri? You serious? Why?"
Oklahoma "consider it proof things will be equal. You already have Vandy, let's see if you treat Missouri nice too. If you can do that, we have a deal next Christmas"
SEC "we're not taking Mizzou on faith alone. And we aren't taking them with OSU either. A&M at LEAST, just in case you screw us"
Oklahoma "ok, fine. We swing A&M, you take Mizzou. We like what we see, we're in"
SEC "you hose us, you're going down with Texas"
Oklahoma "we know. We were anyway. Trust us, we don't owe them anything. See you next Christmas. 2013 will be a good year"
<handshake>
Posted on 11/21/12 at 12:04 pm to BigD Ag
quote:In the realm of collegiate sports, you are nowhere near the draw of an Oklahoma. You do realize that, don't you? Oklahoma will deliver TV ratings in all 50 states; you provide competition to Texas in the Texas markets. Nobody on either coast, or in the Rust Belt, cares about A&M. Oklahoma, on the other hand, they still do. Short of Notre Dame, Oklahoma's got as much impact as any school in the country.
Methinks you're not very educated on media markets and such if you're calling TAMU a medium guy.
On top of that...TAMU could have gone B1G, Pac, ACC, or SEC. Alone.
OU cannot go to some of those. Some because of academics.
Nothing personal, and that's why I said MEDIUM instead of LITTLE. Because you DO provide some new juice to the blend. Just, not the juice the Sooners would. Nobody in, say, Big 10 territory cares about you; but Oklahoma is still national.
Posted on 11/21/12 at 12:10 pm to Ag8556
quote:
If PAC can't get into Oklahoma and Texas, they are landlocked.
Possibly, but you could always get lucky with large state schools in the future before submitting to Boise and BYU. Ten years ago it was laughable that Utah would be in the Pac 12.
Same could now be said for:
New Mexico
New Mexico State
Nevada
UNLV
Colorado State
No one knows what the future holds.
Posted on 11/21/12 at 12:20 pm to BigD Ag
A&M wasn't going to join the SEC alone. Need equal amount of teams to join, keep the divisions balanced. We aren't CUSA.
Guessing the goal is 16. While I'm mostly joking about an Oklahoma conspiracy, that WOULD explain a few things:
why we didn't raid the ACC, but instead took 2 Big 12 teams. If the B1G could get Maryland, I think the SEC could have, too. Or one of the Virginia teams. If we are going school-by-school, ACC team makes way more sense than Missouri. A&M fits our geography, Mizzou doesn't. Not... unless, there are more teams on the way from the Big 12.
Why the Pac 12 deal fell through. Everyone saw Oklahoma as one of their targets, not Colorado. Maybe the Sooners saw the SEC as geographically more friendly than a bunch of West Coast trips.
Guessing the goal is 16. While I'm mostly joking about an Oklahoma conspiracy, that WOULD explain a few things:
why we didn't raid the ACC, but instead took 2 Big 12 teams. If the B1G could get Maryland, I think the SEC could have, too. Or one of the Virginia teams. If we are going school-by-school, ACC team makes way more sense than Missouri. A&M fits our geography, Mizzou doesn't. Not... unless, there are more teams on the way from the Big 12.
Why the Pac 12 deal fell through. Everyone saw Oklahoma as one of their targets, not Colorado. Maybe the Sooners saw the SEC as geographically more friendly than a bunch of West Coast trips.
Posted on 11/21/12 at 12:26 pm to Scoob
According college football viewer analysis across 210 major media markets by statistician at New York Times, projected viewer rankings are:
#6 - Texas A&M 2,030,188 viewers
#19 - Oklahoma 1,201,587 viewers
#6 - Texas A&M 2,030,188 viewers
#19 - Oklahoma 1,201,587 viewers
Posted on 11/21/12 at 12:29 pm to Ag8556
Teh onyl teams interested in leaving the ACC were FSU and Maryland...this is obviously an ssumption based on who voted against the raise of exit fee to $50 million.
Posted on 11/21/12 at 12:30 pm to TeLeFaWx
quote:As a guy in my 40's, I have to acknowledge that Boise and Utah recently were stronger on the field than BYU; but to me- BYU, of the 3, is still the biggest name; lots of NFL QBs as alumni. We're talking Steve Young and Jim McMahon, not Alex Smith.
Possibly, but you could always get lucky with large state schools in the future before submitting to Boise and BYU. Ten years ago it was laughable that Utah would be in the Pac 12.
As an example, I can imagine LSU playing all three in Tiger Stadium. Utah would be early-season filler; Boise would have the novelty appeal (but not for long if they were a conference opponent); BYU would be interesting long-term due to their history.
Posted on 11/21/12 at 12:37 pm to Scoob
quote:
Why the Pac 12 deal fell through. Everyone saw Oklahoma as one of their targets, not Colorado. Maybe the Sooners saw the SEC as geographically more friendly than a bunch of West Coast trips.
No. They make the overwhelming majority of their money from one game... tu. And when tu was postering Pac 16/independent, it didn't matter to them, they know that game won't go away. And they have deep ties to Oklahoma State, they will not leave them. My uncle played for OU, my whole family is from that state. There is an overwhelming anti-SEC sentiment in that state. Trust me. If you spend any amount there you know they aren't going anywhere. The Big 12 is their home.
Posted on 11/21/12 at 12:37 pm to Ag8556
quote:If you say so, but I still don't buy it. I never really cared about A&M one way or the other unless we played them, and I'm next door in Louisiana. I have family in Ohio and New York, and friends out in California (and other places), and again- A&M is meh, it depends on the opponent. Unless it's against a local or a team you follow, A&M is just another team.
According college football viewer analysis across 210 major media markets by statistician at New York Times, projected viewer rankings are:
#6 - Texas A&M 2,030,188 viewers
#19 - Oklahoma 1,201,587 viewers
Myself, and those friends/family, all watched the Oklahoma-Nebraska games growing up, and to a lesser extent Oklahoma-Texas (much preferred the Nebraska rivalry). It was up there with Michigan-Ohio St, or Duke-Carolina in basketball.
Posted on 11/21/12 at 12:42 pm to Scoob
quote:
If you say so, but I still don't buy it. I never really cared about A&M one way or the other unless we played them, and I'm next door in Louisiana.
Sure OU is a more "elite" program, but A&M has the numbers and is actually in the state with those numbers.
Just Aggies and their family beats out OU fans considering how big our student population is.
Posted on 11/21/12 at 12:45 pm to Scoob
quote:
If you say so, but I still don't buy it. I never really cared about A&M one way or the other unless we played them, and I'm next door in Louisiana. I have family in Ohio and New York, and friends out in California (and other places), and again-A&M is meh, it depends on the opponent. Unless it's against a local or a team you follow, A&M is just another team.
Myself, and those friends/family, all watched the Oklahoma-Nebraska games growing up, and to a lesser extent Oklahoma-Texas (much preferred the Nebraska rivalry). It was up there with Michigan-Ohio St, or Duke-Carolina in basketball.
I agree with you, OU is a more national program. I don't like Aggies that can't see this. I will say you are underestimating the growth A&M has made in the last 30 years, and how that impacts things. LSU is much like an OU, the whole state is devoted to thay school. A&M doesn't have near that appeal, as we have burnt orange brethren to deal with, but we currently have the 7th largest school in the country, located in the state with easily the most college football fans in the country. The ceiling for A&M is that of an OU. If A&M was in the top 10 over the last decade like the Sooners were, you would see the number of people that cared. There are 25 million people in the state of Texas alone that have some sort of strong opinion about Texas A&M, either good or bad.
Posted on 11/21/12 at 12:47 pm to TeLeFaWx
quote:Money doesn't flow the same in the SEC as in the Big 12. Way more equal division of funds. TV deals, bowl deals, etc- Vandy gets the same as Alabama. So does Kentucky, despite sitting at home this season.
No. They make the overwhelming majority of their money from one game... tu.
Rich can't get as rich, but your necessary losing opponents don't go broke. Makes for far more stable long-term success. Hence, someone like Tennessee doesn't try to move during a down-swing, like Nebraska did.
There are a ton of other sports besides football. Things like women's volleyball, golf, tennis... OU or UT having to go to the West Coast for half their games in those sports would be absolutely brutal. You have to take that into consideration
Posted on 11/21/12 at 12:48 pm to cardboardboxer
quote:
Just Aggies and their family beats out OU fans considering how big our student population is.
Disagree with this though. OU fans are national, and have a very strong following in North Texas, and the whole state of Oklahoma. In 30 years that might be different, but our alumni don't outnumber their fans, that is silly.
Posted on 11/21/12 at 12:48 pm to Scoob
quote:
In the realm of collegiate sports, you are nowhere near the draw of an Oklahoma. You do realize that, don't you? Oklahoma will deliver TV ratings in all 50 states; you provide competition to Texas in the Texas markets. Nobody on either coast, or in the Rust Belt, cares about A&M. Oklahoma, on the other hand, they still do. Short of Notre Dame, Oklahoma's got as much impact as any school in the country.
Not the way it works. You do realize that, don't you? TAMU provides far more than OU to a conference because of Texas. Take the SEC Network. It will be at the very least $1+ per TV set that has the SEC Network in states with an SEC footprint versus 5 cents per TV set in states without an SEC footprint. This before I get in to the growing importance (although that's already important to B1G, ACC, and to a lesser extent the PAC) of academics and prestige.
You'd be the only commish in America that would take OU over the Ags and you'd be out of a job immediately upon making that decision. And FWIW the B1G did court TAMU. There were plenty of articles written about that and were plastered all over Northwestern's sites. And our ratings have done just fine this year, better than OU's.
This post was edited on 11/21/12 at 12:52 pm
Posted on 11/21/12 at 12:48 pm to RockChalkTiger
I say try to get FSU and Clemson.
Both have good venues, both have some track record of success in CFB. You already have the rivalry between FLorida/FSU and SCar/Clemson.
Both have good venues, both have some track record of success in CFB. You already have the rivalry between FLorida/FSU and SCar/Clemson.
Posted on 11/21/12 at 12:50 pm to Scoob
quote:
Fla-UGA-SC-Ky
Alabama-Auburn-Tenn- Vandy
LSU-Miss St-A&M-Ole Miss
Okla-USC-Missouri-Arkansas
The pod system is great if we're at 16. But I think before grouping the teams geographically the teams should be "seeded" based on history and realistics prospects going forward. Each pod should have a 1,2,3 and 4 "seed' for balance. I've heard Va Tech and NC St as the most likely new additions. If true I would make the 1 seeds Alabama,Florida, LSU and UGA, 2 seeds Auburn, Tennessee, A&M and S Carolina, 3 seeds VA Tech, Arkansas, Missouri, NC ST, 4 seeds Vandy, Ole Miss, Miss St, UK.
Yes, UT is historically #2 by many criteria, but I think UT needs the absolute right coach in order to win big. I feel that UGA, LSU and UF can win realtively big without a great coach. A&M historically is maybe below a 2 seed, but I think they have greater potential and could soon approach 1 seed caliber.Va Tech would be a 2 seed over the last 10 years, but will they remain there when Beamer retires and they move to a tougher conference?
The below pods look pretty balanced. And everyone could keep one constant opponent so that the sacred cow rivalries could be maintained.
Alabama, Auburn, Missouri, UK
LSU, A&M, Arkansas,Ole Miss
UGA, Tenn, Va Tech, Vandy
Florida, S Carolina, NC ST, Miss St
Posted on 11/21/12 at 12:50 pm to BigD Ag
quote:
You'd be the only commish in America that would take OU over the Ags and you'd be out of a job immediately upon making that decision. And FWIW the B1G did court TAMU. There were plenty of articles written about that and were plastered all over Northwestern's sites. And our ratings have done just fine this year.
Silly. OU isn't some second tier school. They are every bit as valuable as an A&M. A&M has a higher ceiling in the future, imo, but even then it is marginal. The SEC would be happy to take OU.
Posted on 11/21/12 at 12:52 pm to TeLeFaWx
quote:
Silly. OU isn't some second tier school. They are every bit as valuable as an A&M. A&M has a higher ceiling in the future, imo, but even then it is marginal. The SEC would be happy to take OU.
They may take OU and I never even hinted at their being a second tier school. But that wasn't my argument. If the SEC could only take one, they would take TAMU 10 times out of 10. Please re-read.
This post was edited on 11/21/12 at 12:54 pm
Posted on 11/21/12 at 12:59 pm to BigD Ag
quote:
They may take OU and I never even hinted at their being a second tier school. But that wasn't my argument. If the SEC could only take one, they would take TAMU 10 times out of 10. Please re-read.
But if the SEC could have chosen to get tu/OU or tu/A&M who do you think they would have chosen? OU is still a blue blood, a national brand, with one of the most historic rivalries in all of college football, and provides immense value.
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