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re: College Basketball Program Rankings
Posted on 4/9/24 at 11:59 am to AUTiger789
Posted on 4/9/24 at 11:59 am to AUTiger789
quote:
I have about 150 teams’ NCAA history uploaded into a master spreadsheet.
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Posted on 4/9/24 at 12:03 pm to paperwasp
quote:
Someone posted a ranking the other day of total program wins, with Alabama now coming in at 30th.
What you might not realize is that some of us are quite proud of that.
To be quite honest, the entire original SEC is mostly penalized in these rankings because in olden times, most conferences received just one NCAA Tournament bid… and for much of the Tournamenr history, it had more to do with geographical region than it did conference.
If you were in a very competitive league, this didn’t hurt as much. But if you had a powerhouse program (like Kentucky) that blocked your chance from getting a tournament bid.
Through 1984, here were the number of NCAA bids by SEC school:
29- Kentucky
8- Tennessee
6- LSU
5- Alabama
2- Vanderbilt
1- Georgia, Miss St, Auburn, Ole Miss
…and most all of these were between 1976 and 1984. In ‘76 the tournament expanded to 32 teams which typically allowed for Kentucky and a second SEC team to get a bid.
Up through 1975, Kentucky had 22 NCAA Tournament appearances and the rest of the then-SEC had a combined 7.
This hurt programs like Bama who were winning lots of games but weren’t good enough to overtake Kentucky and make the Tournament.
This is why Bama fans are so hell bent on counting other factors but the truth is, no one outside of Alabama cared about the program CM Newton had put together because they were irrelevant at the National level.
I think to balance this out, you still stick with just NCAA Tournament success, but you discount everything prior to ‘85 and you discount even more heavily everything before ‘76, and you really discount everything before 1951 when only 8 teams made the field.
This post was edited on 4/9/24 at 12:05 pm
Posted on 4/9/24 at 12:35 pm to AUTiger789
quote:
Sure. I get that winning a conference title is nice and worth celebrating. The difficulty is how to reward that in a metric when all the conferences are so different. Gonzaga has 21 regular season conference titles since 2001. Kentucky has 9. Surely if Kentucky had been in the WCC instead of the SEC, they’d have more than 9… and simultaneously, had Gonzaga played in the SEC they’d have no where close to 21. So how do you value a conference title in a metric that compares programs from all the different conferences?
I feel you regarding difficulty of valuing reg season, conf titles, and conf tourney titles. Seems like they should be valued but the SOS among conferences makes that very difficult.
In a way you could reward points for regular season by perhaps “over valuing” round of 68 (baking in credit for a successful reg season) or perhaps even better would be rewarding some bonus points for your seed number (because seed number should also bake in credit for how good your regular season was, eg extra 2 points for a top 4 seed, extra point for 5-8 seed, extra 1/2 point for 9-12 seed). Maybe those values are too much/too little but you get the point.
I look forward to you taking my recommendations and providing us with the results. Lol
Posted on 4/9/24 at 12:48 pm to elposter
quote:
I look forward to you taking my recommendations and providing us with the results. Lol
LOL. Right. I like the idea. Hard to do it though.
The NCAA didn’t start seeding teams until around 1983 or ‘84 I believe.
The changing dynamic of the Tournament (from 8, to 16, to 22-25, to 32, to 64, to 65, to 68) also makes things difficult.
Posted on 4/9/24 at 6:34 pm to AUTiger789
The final four is a huge deal in college basketball granted, but actually winning a national title is so far and away more validating than anything else, I really think you are badly undervaluing it.
Title - 25
Runner up - 11
Final Four - 8
Elite 8 - 4
Sweet Sixteen - 2
Round of 32 - 1
invited to the tournament - 0
losing the tournament opener is as unpleasant as missing the tournament. All you want to do is forget about the year.
Title - 25
Runner up - 11
Final Four - 8
Elite 8 - 4
Sweet Sixteen - 2
Round of 32 - 1
invited to the tournament - 0
losing the tournament opener is as unpleasant as missing the tournament. All you want to do is forget about the year.
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