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Posted on 3/5/15 at 12:51 pm to auburnphan23
You're a complete dumbass you realize. I'm curious as to where I said that Deion was a better baseball player. I said they were both mediocre.
In a comparable amount of games Bo's fielding percentage was 20 points lower and he committed twice as many errors. His dWAR is -4.7 career (shitty) and Deion's is 0.5
Bo Jackson was a bad defensive outfield by any measure.
In a comparable amount of games Bo's fielding percentage was 20 points lower and he committed twice as many errors. His dWAR is -4.7 career (shitty) and Deion's is 0.5
Bo Jackson was a bad defensive outfield by any measure.
This post was edited on 3/5/15 at 12:53 pm
Posted on 3/5/15 at 12:58 pm to Killean
All this discussion would be moot if Cecil Collins had not been a nutjob...
Posted on 3/5/15 at 1:04 pm to DuncanIdaho
quote:
Flamed out?? He had a fricking artificial hip installed.
I've learned from the previous hundred iterations of this discussion that it's pointless since nobody's mind will be changed, so I'm not trying to tip the scales one way or the other, just pointing this out. But shouldn't health be a factor? Take Gurley for instance. When healthy, I don't think there's any doubt he could make a case for being the best RB in college football. Yet, tons of people point to his injuries. He missed a large part of 2013 with a high ankle sprain. He tore his ACL this year. That doesn't take away from his abilities, but whether I like it or not, it's a knock on him that people recognize.
Regardless of how or why it happened...Bo did have injury issues. Would that not play into things?
*Note I've asked this as objectively and civilly as possible, lest I be accused of being rustled again.
Posted on 3/5/15 at 1:10 pm to OffroadSportsman89
Herschel is the GOAT
Bo is Bo
Bo is Bo
Posted on 3/5/15 at 1:11 pm to Killean
Nice of you not to mention that Bo was first at his position in assist twice in his four healthy years with 12 assists both years. I doubt Deon threw out 12 runners in his entire career
Posted on 3/5/15 at 1:14 pm to Killean
quote:
Bo Jackson was a bad defensive outfield by any measure.
Nuh uh man, he could throw home from center and run up walls! Walls, bro! Like Spider-Man!
Posted on 3/5/15 at 1:14 pm to WG_Dawg
quote:
But shouldn't health be a factor?
It should. Bo was durable. He got an injury that at any time would end your career in football. He was not injury prone, he had bad luck.
LINK
It's not like Bo was fragile and he finally succombed to the litany of injuries. The man ran with such power that he dislocated his hip on a tackle and then re-located it without passing out. He's a super human.
This post was edited on 3/5/15 at 1:19 pm
Posted on 3/5/15 at 1:18 pm to therick711
I understand he didn't get injured just getting out of bed...but it still happened. I had a few other comments but I'll just save them since they would fall on deaf ears anyway.
Posted on 3/5/15 at 1:19 pm to auburnphan23
Bo had 49 assists to deions 22. He had 44 errors to deions 22. League average fielding for an outfielder was .980. Bo was at .962. Deion was at .982.
Bo was a below average defensive outfielder.
Bo was a below average defensive outfielder.
This post was edited on 3/5/15 at 1:21 pm
Posted on 3/5/15 at 1:26 pm to WG_Dawg
quote:
I understand he didn't get injured just getting out of bed...but it still happened. I had a few other comments but I'll just save them since they would fall on deaf ears anyway.
Let me just answer you straight away then, since you're taking your ball and going home on this. Durability matters. This freak injury happening in this way, doesn't factor into the equation. If you put Walker on the same run, he gets hurt too. He might not have necrosis, but he still gets hurt. It was a freak thing. Walker isn't magically invulnerable to running fast and having someone yank on your leg like in this injury and somehow he doesn't dislocate his hip.
tl;dr this specific injury is not a basis upon which to find Walker was better.
This post was edited on 3/6/15 at 8:19 am
Posted on 3/5/15 at 1:29 pm to WG_Dawg
quote:
I've learned from the previous hundred iterations of this discussion that it's pointless since nobody's mind will be changed, so I'm not trying to tip the scales one way or the other, just pointing this out. But shouldn't health be a factor? Take Gurley for instance. When healthy, I don't think there's any doubt he could make a case for being the best RB in college football. Yet, tons of people point to his injuries. He missed a large part of 2013 with a high ankle sprain. He tore his ACL this year. That doesn't take away from his abilities, but whether I like it or not, it's a knock on him that people recognize.
Regardless of how or why it happened...Bo did have injury issues. Would that not play into things?
This guy gets it. Bo was GOAT. His injuries despite numerous actually add to his legend because He is the GOAT inspite of all the injuries. Most average guys ala TG are diminished by injuries.
This post was edited on 3/5/15 at 1:32 pm
Posted on 3/5/15 at 1:29 pm to therick711
quote:
since you're taking your ball and going home on this.
Good Lord. I can't win. Earlier in the thread I was actively participating in the discussion...and then called "rustled" for doing so. So now I remain at arm's length, and I'm pouting and going home. I swear some people on here simply take the opposite stance on things just for fun.
Posted on 3/5/15 at 1:29 pm to Killean
quote:
Bo had 49 assists to deions 22. He had 44 errors to deions 22. League average fielding for an outfielder was .980. Bo was at .962. Deion was at .982.
Bo was a below average defensive outfielder.
Why are you still on this? Bo Jackson's baseball value was always his power. He was destined to be a corner outfielder or DH. The 20/20, 30/20 stuff was impressive, but he wasn't going to build a career out of that. He was going to make a name by batting .260 and hitting 30 or so homeruns.
This post was edited on 3/5/15 at 1:30 pm
Posted on 3/5/15 at 1:30 pm to WG_Dawg
quote:
Good Lord. I can't win. Earlier in the thread I was actively participating in the discussion...and then called "rustled" for doing so. So now I remain at arm's length, and I'm pouting and going home. I swear some people on here simply take the opposite stance on things just for fun.
Dude, shut the frick up. Either talk about it or don't, but the meta commentary on how you are being treated is tired. I've treated you with respect, so quit being a pansy.
Now say what you want to say.Posted on 3/5/15 at 1:32 pm to therick711
quote:
Durability matters. This freak injury happening in this way, doesn't factor into the equation.
Didn't you just contradict yourself? It matters...but it doesn't matter if it helps your case?
Herschel got injured too. He dislocated his shoulder and popped it back in place at halftime and kept playing. He played against the national champs in 81 with a broken bone in his hand.
And how come it doesn't factor in because it's a "freak" injury?
quote:
If you put Walker on the same run, he gets hurt too.
If you put bo, herschel, barry sanders, AP, earl campbell...ANYBODY, in the run that sidelined gurley in '13 they'd get injured too. Not really much you can do when a linebacker rolls up on you from behind. But it still counts, and it still affected how people view Gurley's career.
Posted on 3/5/15 at 1:35 pm to WG_Dawg
quote:
Didn't you just contradict yourself? It matters...but it doesn't matter if it helps your case?
No, I didn't. I said that durability is a skill, but this accident was one that would be career ending for just about everyone, and it would have happened to all of them. It was bad luck. It is equivalent to you arguing that Kevin Everett wasn't durable because he got crippled on a play that would have crippled anyone. It doesn't make sense. Those guys weren't soft, they were unlucky that the one injury they got ended their careers.
Also, let's straighten this out. I don't have a "case." I'm rebutting your durability is a skill and it matters argument by telling you that your argument in this instance is without merit. I also pointed out that Bo played 3 sports in college which you left out earlier. There isn't a bias just because someone argues with you.
This post was edited on 3/5/15 at 1:38 pm
Posted on 3/5/15 at 1:38 pm to therick711
quote:
but this accident was one that was career ending for just about everyone and it would have happened to all of them. It was bad luck.
So what? NObody is debating the luck/unfortunateness of it, but the reality is that it did happen.
quote:
It is equivalent to you arguing that Kevin Everett wasn't durable because he got crippled on a play that would have crippled anyone.
Idk who that is, but wouldn't it be a safe bet that his career and how it is viewed is affected by his crippling?
quote:
Those guys weren't soft,
don't think anyone suggested they were
quote:
they were unlucky that the one injury they got ended their careers.
we're not discussing how potentially great everyone could be if they all played out their full careers in full health. We're discussing what actually happened during play.
Posted on 3/5/15 at 1:40 pm to therick711
Bo had an oWAR of 10.2 and a dWAR of -4.7 career. That is a combined war of 5.5. Deion had an oWAR of 5.0 and a dWAR of 0.5. That is 5.5.
As baseball players they had the same value. Both slightly above average.
As baseball players they had the same value. Both slightly above average.
Posted on 3/5/15 at 1:40 pm to therick711
quote:
I'm rebutting your durability is a skill and it matters argument
you may want to start by getting things correct, since I have never once equated durability to a skill. You said that.
I DID say that durability should be a factor in how people's careers are viewed. I think that's perfectly reasonable. To use an extreme hypothetical, how would you view a true freshman RB that ran for 2,000 yards and 25 touchdowns then was paralyzed after that? Incredible talent, incredible season, incredible potential...absolutely. But nobody in their right mind would compare his career to others that played longer. It would be unfortunate, it would suck, it would be unlucky as hell, but it would still be a factor on which his career is judged. Would you disagree?
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