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What If Ferguson, MO Was an Open Carry Town?

Posted on 8/19/14 at 9:37 am
Posted by The Spleen
Member since Dec 2010
38865 posts
Posted on 8/19/14 at 9:37 am
And maybe it is, I don't know. How would the reactions be if the protesters all had a pistol openly strapped to their hip?
Posted by Alahunter
Member since Jan 2008
90738 posts
Posted on 8/19/14 at 9:41 am to
It'd likely be illegal. There are certain situations you can't carry.. courthouses, public gatherings.. etc..

for example.. Alabama law concerning that...

((b) It shall be unlawful for any person, other than a law enforcement officer, to have in his or her possession or on his or her person or in any vehicle any firearm while participating in or attending any demonstration being held at a public place.

I would think most other states have similar laws in place.
This post was edited on 8/19/14 at 9:44 am
Posted by JustGetItRight
Member since Jan 2012
15712 posts
Posted on 8/19/14 at 9:55 am to
quote:

And maybe it is, I don't know. How would the reactions be if the protesters all had a pistol openly strapped to their hip?



Reactions of whom? Protestors or LE?

If you're talking protestors, probably no different at all.

If you're talking LE, it depends.

Are more than a few rioting or peacefully demonstrating? The answer makes all the difference in the world.

There have been few (if any at all - I don't know of any) instances of violence of any type at open carry/tea party rallies so there have been no incidents involving hostile contact with law enforcement. If they were peacefully demonstrating, it would probably have been the same here.

If course, many weren't peacefully demonstrating, they were committing acts of violence. If they were openly armed, the response may have been more heavy handed, but it may not have been due to the increased threat to officers.

Posted by PJinAtl
Atlanta
Member since Nov 2007
12737 posts
Posted on 8/19/14 at 10:19 am to
quote:

or in any vehicle
So if you are going to drive from Birmingham to Montgomery for a public demonstration, you can't even have it in your car? I can understand not having it on you at the event, but if you drive and park and then leave the vehicle...
Posted by slacker130
Your mom
Member since Jul 2010
7977 posts
Posted on 8/19/14 at 10:27 am to
quote:

I would think most other states have similar laws in place.


Not in Georgia, but I don't OC. I prefer CC.
Posted by Pavoloco83
Acworth Ga. too many damn dawgs
Member since Nov 2013
15347 posts
Posted on 8/19/14 at 11:07 am to
There would be a lot more dead "protesters" if they were packing heat. Some dead cops too, but in a gun fight, the cops will win. Always.
Posted by JustGetItRight
Member since Jan 2012
15712 posts
Posted on 8/19/14 at 11:41 am to
quote:

There would be a lot more dead "protesters" if they were packing heat. Some dead cops too, but in a gun fight, the cops will win. Always.



There have been several people shot (none by police) since the violence started, so they're carrying.

I honestly don't know where Spleen is headed with the thread. The presence of guns (concealed or openly displayed) is irrelevant.

People with a victim mentality or a sense of racial guilt want to see the police response being based on the race of those involved in the protest/riots when the only relevant issue is the behavior of the crowd.

If you had tea party/open carry rallies where the participants were trashing property and looting stores, the police would be responding with force there too (see the various 'Occupy' movements of a few years ago).
Posted by Alahunter
Member since Jan 2008
90738 posts
Posted on 8/19/14 at 11:45 am to
After watching the live feed of the "protest" last night, I've come to the conclusion it's a media generated event at this point. There were nearly as many cameras as there were so-called protestors. And there wasn't really any organization to them, nor were they doing anything but standing and cussing at times.

I find it odd also, that the "protests" come at night time, under the cover of darkness. To me, it looked like a few people, in the crowd and in the press, are just looking for tv time now.

This post was edited on 8/19/14 at 11:47 am
Posted by The Spleen
Member since Dec 2010
38865 posts
Posted on 8/19/14 at 11:48 am to
Whoa, it's like you said exactly what the guy on fox News said last night. Weird.

LINK
Posted by Alahunter
Member since Jan 2008
90738 posts
Posted on 8/19/14 at 11:49 am to
I don't watch network news, be it Fox, CNN, ABC, CBS or NBC.

eta- watching the link you provided.. everything I stated was accurate to the T.
This post was edited on 8/19/14 at 11:50 am
Posted by The Spleen
Member since Dec 2010
38865 posts
Posted on 8/19/14 at 11:55 am to
quote:

I honestly don't know where Spleen is headed with the thread


It's just a hypothetical scenario. Just curious how others think the response would be were Ferguson an open carry town, didn't have a similar law to the one Alahunter cited, and many of the protesters were openly carrying. And when I say response, I mean the response from all parties. The police, the left-leaning media, the right-leaning media, the average Joe sitting at home/work posting on discussion boards, etc.

Posted by Alahunter
Member since Jan 2008
90738 posts
Posted on 8/19/14 at 11:56 am to
I'm sure it would be pretty negative, considering the behavior of some of them. Probably would be some dead business owners as well, if they were around when their businesses were looted.
Posted by Alahunter
Member since Jan 2008
90738 posts
Posted on 8/19/14 at 12:10 pm to
Oh, no. Journos aren't the story in Ferguson. But in the last two hours of MSNBC, people throwing rocks at @chrislhayes has been the lead.
Posted by The Spleen
Member since Dec 2010
38865 posts
Posted on 8/19/14 at 12:22 pm to
But isn't the argument that an armed society is a more polite society? Would there still be looting if more people were openly carrying? What if it was found that none of the individuals openly carrying a gun participated in any of the bad behavior?
Posted by JustGetItRight
Member since Jan 2012
15712 posts
Posted on 8/19/14 at 12:28 pm to
quote:

The police, the left-leaning media, the right-leaning media, the average Joe sitting at home/work posting on discussion boards, etc.


For the police and the average Joe (not the true believers on both ends, the real average Joe), it will simply come down to the behavior of the crowd. It really is that simple. Non-violent protesters being respectful of other's property wouldn't raise an eyebrow.

The media would almost certainly spin it to pander to their audience. Left leaning would paint them as standing up for their rights against oppression and right leaning would paint them as an armed powderkeg waiting to explode. In a nutshell, it would be exactly opposite from the way 2nd Amendment rallies are painted today.

This is a good time to point out that anyone thinking the media of today is somehow different than it used to be should study history. They like to portray themselves as the fifth estate that oversees our freedom, but they've never been anything more than a for profit business doing what for-profit businesses do.

We went to war with Spain in good part because of William Randolph Hurst and Joseph Pulitzer's newspapers and it is no different today. They're going to write the story in the way that generates the most revenue. Whether or not it is true and accurate is nothing more than a passing concern.
Posted by JustGetItRight
Member since Jan 2012
15712 posts
Posted on 8/19/14 at 12:38 pm to
quote:

But isn't the argument that an armed society is a more polite society? Would there still be looting if more people were openly carrying? What if it was found that none of the individuals openly carrying a gun participated in any of the bad behavior?


If the looters are open carrying, they'll still loot. The weapon doesn't cause the behavior.

If the store owner's sitting there armed and gives the impression that he is willing to use his weapon, you can rest assured there would be less looting. Korean store owners did it to very good effect in the 1992 Rodney King riots after the cops bugged out and left the Korean stores to the mercy of the mob.

Likewise, visibly armed peaceful demonstrators aren't going to deter looters unless the looter is convinced the armed individual will use his weapon to stop the criminal act.

Posted by The Spleen
Member since Dec 2010
38865 posts
Posted on 8/19/14 at 12:51 pm to
I think if Ferguson was an open carry town, some type of order or ordinance would have been passed temporarily suspending the allowance. I think the left would immediately cry that the ordinance would be because most of the open carry residents were black, and the the traditional gun-rights zealots on the right would be curiously silent on the issue. Neither side seeing the hypocrisy in their position.
Posted by MIZtyler
Norman, OK.
Member since Feb 2013
166 posts
Posted on 8/19/14 at 1:25 pm to
Missouri is an open carry state, so it is legal. I prefer to carry concealed though.
This post was edited on 8/19/14 at 1:28 pm
Posted by JustGetItRight
Member since Jan 2012
15712 posts
Posted on 8/19/14 at 2:05 pm to
Sure there would be hypocrisy. There always is, particularly from the extremes but again the reaction from the average citizen would be based on the behavior of those carrying.

Once again, I'll go back to the tea party rallies. Lots of guns but no violence, no problems, so no big fuss.

Aside from those who are anti-gun or blatant racists, the way in which those possessing weapons conduct themselves would be the major determining factor in how their possession of those weapons is viewed.

As far as 'suspending' any open carry rights, I don't know Missouri law but such a thing wouldn't be possible in Alabama. Authority to regulate firearms rests solely with the state. Further, simply taking them in the name of public safety is risking a huge lawsuit after NOPD/Katrina and the subsequent Disaster Recovery Personal Protection Act.
Posted by CheeseburgerEddie
Crimson Tide Fan Club
Member since Oct 2012
15574 posts
Posted on 8/19/14 at 2:13 pm to
quote:

So if you are going to drive from Birmingham to Montgomery for a public demonstration, you can't even have it in your car? I can understand not having it on you at the event, but if you drive and park and then leave the vehicle...



vehicle probably has something to do with parades or some type of moving procession. If you drive and park and then leave it in the vehicle to walk I don't think you would be "at the demonstration" until you no longer have it in your possession.
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