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re: America Is Not For Black People
Posted on 8/14/14 at 1:28 pm to roadGator
Posted on 8/14/14 at 1:28 pm to roadGator
quote:
Why don't we give cops megaphones and tell them to yell at the mean criminals since they don't need to be as well armed as the mean criminals because those mean criminals are less mean than in the past.
I don't want police over stepping their bounds but since I'm not willing to become a police officer, I certainly won't fault them for wanting to have the upper hand in weaponry and armor.
Anyone else here want to ride out and arrest a drug cartel member with a .22 pistol and loud voice?
Sweet strawman bro.
ETA: Which drug cartels were behind the demonstrations last night?
This post was edited on 8/14/14 at 1:30 pm
2
Posted on 8/14/14 at 1:29 pm to RogerTheShrubber
quote:
This has been an argument for years. Just not in your circles.
LINK
Good read. I've been saying a lot of the same things.
Gun control and the war on drugs have been used as an excuse to harass black people for a long time. I've seen it in DC as long as I've lived here.
Posted on 8/14/14 at 1:30 pm to the808bass
quote:
Serious question. Has anything like that happened since?
Are you joking?
Posted on 8/14/14 at 1:32 pm to RogerTheShrubber
quote:
It's a pretty solid trend.
Source
From 1973-2003:
I'm not disagreeing with you that violent crime in the US is down right now. What I am saying is that it's cyclical. It'll go up, then go back down.
Posted on 8/14/14 at 1:33 pm to nes2010
quote:
Is an AK that much more dangerous than a BAR?
I'd say yes. Otherwise the entire world would be using BARs.
Posted on 8/14/14 at 1:35 pm to AUnite
quote:
I'm not disagreeing with you that violent crime in the US is down right now. What I am saying is that it's cyclical. It'll go up, then go back down.
Honest question: what makes you think this?
What evidence do you have that lends to the argument for the cyclicality of violent crime?
Posted on 8/14/14 at 1:36 pm to StrawsDrawnAtRandom
quote:
I'd say yes. Otherwise the entire world would be using BARs.
People use AKs because they're cheap and plentiful, not because they're particularly powerful (that said, they're powerful).
Posted on 8/14/14 at 1:37 pm to StrawsDrawnAtRandom
quote:
quote: Serious question. Has anything like that happened since?
The cops didn't confront the shooters at Columbine. They didn't confront Lanza. Or Loughner. I didn't ask for mass shooters. I asked for an analogous event.
Posted on 8/14/14 at 1:39 pm to RogerTheShrubber
quote:
But violent crime is down.
I'm not sure I trust police reporting of crime.
Posted on 8/14/14 at 1:39 pm to DCRebel
quote:
Honest question: what makes you think this?
What evidence do you have that lends to the argument for the cyclicality of violent crime?
Honestly, I agree that violence is on the decline if only it's way too hard to get away with anything these days.
With cellphone cameras, media, television shows highlighting just how many ways the police can frick you over and the NSA/FBI sharing resources that can listen to you on any electric medium barring some older methods I think most people just refrain from violent crime.
Ain't worth it.
Posted on 8/14/14 at 1:40 pm to DCRebel
quote:
Good read. I've been saying a lot of the same things.
Gun control and the war on drugs have been used as an excuse to harass black people for a long time. I've seen it in DC as long as I've lived here.
Yeah, lots of folks don't realize the prohibition of individual drugs (like opium) were direct attacks on ethnic or racial groups.
Posted on 8/14/14 at 1:42 pm to AUnite
quote:
I'm not disagreeing with you that violent crime in the US is down right now. What I am saying is that it's cyclical. It'll go up, then go back down.
Barring an economic collapse, you'll not see 1991 level violent crime.
One thing the war on drugs has done is imprison a lot of people for a lot of time. It's had an affect on crime, but there have been a lot of innocent casualties on the WoDs.
Posted on 8/14/14 at 1:42 pm to DCRebel
I wasn't talking about last night. The cops probably screwed it up big time. I have no idea because I'm not a pro in policing. I'll let them and the courts battle that out. I'm sure it's going to happen.
I just understand why officers would want modern weaponry and armor. It's tough enough to recruit police officers. Imagine if they feel like they can't compete with the criminals. We'll be left with even shittier human being to be cops because the ones we have now would quit. That's my opinion.
What is it that you want? You want them to get rid of the body armor, fatigues, shotguns, rifles, snipers, APCs? What is your perfect world for cops?
I just understand why officers would want modern weaponry and armor. It's tough enough to recruit police officers. Imagine if they feel like they can't compete with the criminals. We'll be left with even shittier human being to be cops because the ones we have now would quit. That's my opinion.
What is it that you want? You want them to get rid of the body armor, fatigues, shotguns, rifles, snipers, APCs? What is your perfect world for cops?
Posted on 8/14/14 at 1:44 pm to the808bass
quote:
But violent crime is down.
I'm not sure I trust police reporting of crime.
Violent crime, particularly homicide is hard to disguise. I'll agree with you on others where there is little uniformity in crime reporting. For instance, what constitutes domestic assault in one city or state many not be reported as such in another.
Posted on 8/14/14 at 1:44 pm to RogerTheShrubber
quote:
Yeah, lots of folks don't realize the prohibition of individual drugs (like opium) were direct attacks on ethnic or racial groups
Marijuana law were absolutely based in racist attitudes, both towards the Mexican migrant farmers in California and Arizona, and blacks. The entire reefer madness campaign was heavily steeped in racist propaganda.
But I was thinking opium had more to do with doctors wanting in on the $$ somehow. Forget that I had read about that several years ago, but pretty sure opium was available OTC, and doctors pushed for it to be prescribed so as to generate more revenue. May be wrong on that.
Posted on 8/14/14 at 1:46 pm to the808bass
quote:
The cops didn't confront the shooters at Columbine.
At 12:02 p.m., Harris and Klebold re-entered the library, which was empty of surviving students except the unconscious Patrick Ireland and the injured Lisa Kreutz. Once inside, they shot at police through the west windows but did not hit anyone.
quote:
They didn't confront Lanza.
Got me there.
quote:
Loughner
I didn't post Loughner.
quote:
I didn't mention Boston because it's analogous.
And you're asking for bank robberies that turned into mass shootings is kind of shifting the sands.
There have been plenty of incidents of people using assault weapons and battling with police, however, and I don't think having to produce something to meet the criterion of your moving goal posts is worthwhile.
Posted on 8/14/14 at 1:47 pm to StrawsDrawnAtRandom
Well most countries still use .30 machine guns don't they? They just aren't made to be so portable?
Posted on 8/14/14 at 1:49 pm to DCRebel
quote:
White teenagers aren't shot in the back while fleeing the police. White neighborhoods aren't fired upon by militarized police. The wholesale disregard of the civil rights of white people isn't brushed aside because some white people committed crimes.
This guy looks white to me.
So do these people.
The Zimmerman trial taught me these people are white too.
And somehow, amazingly you seem to have missed this entire episode in a city who's population is 92% white and 1.75% black.
You're falling into the trap of thinking just because violent LE episodes seem to always happen in black neighborhoods, it must be due to the fact that the people are black.
Could there possibly be another reason? Perhaps maybe it could be related to the fact that those same neighborhoods are where the overwhelming majority of violent crime tends to occur?
When violence erupts in high end white neighborhoods (see Watertown, MA or anywhere the G8 meet), police react exactly the same way.
quote:
Also, riots aren't exactly a new thing. The militarization of police forces is, however.
As compared to when?
In 1940, the average US infantryman would have been armed with a 5 round bolt action rifle and no sidearm. For those with a sidearm, it would have been a 7 round 1911 Colt. The average police officer would have been armed with a 6 round .38 revolver. His long gun of choice would have been a 5 round pump shotgun. Neither had body armor. Further, prior to WWII, law enforcement agencies made up one of the largest customers for Thompson submachine guns. Here's Boston PD admiring their latest additions.
Police departments stuck with the revolver until the crack wars of the 1980s where they were really and honestly outgunned. That's when most switched to high capacity semi-autos and replaced shotguns with rifles like the Mini-14. Again, very similar to how a Vietnam era infantryman would have been equipped - with the exception of body armor which was too large and bulky for everyday LE use.
Barney with his bullet in his pocket and Andy on patrol without a gun has never been more than a TV show. LE has always been equipped similarly to the military. The only things that are different now are (a) it gets used a lot more - which isn't always good (b) they tend to wear military style clothing - which I agree isn't useful and (c) there are cameras everywhere to show it all to the world.
quote:
Can you show me where John Q. Taxpayer is buying up MRAPs and drones?
Can't help with the MRAP since they aren't for sale but pretty sure you can do much of the same thing with a Brinks armored car. As far as drones go, these guys
are the hottest things in RC right now and they're functionally the same as many of the LE 'drones' getting people all upset.
Posted on 8/14/14 at 1:51 pm to DCRebel
quote:
White teenagers aren't shot in the back while fleeing the police. White neighborhoods aren't fired upon by militarized police.
Not when it fails to fit the narrative.
Posted on 8/14/14 at 1:51 pm to DCRebel
You keep flipping back and forth between the very broad topic of the "militarization" of police vs. what happened last night.
Last night there was potential for a riot based on recent events and the police had to be prepared for all possibilities.
Last night there was potential for a riot based on recent events and the police had to be prepared for all possibilities.
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