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re: Clarkson and Brown
Posted on 3/11/14 at 11:48 am to Mizzoufan26
Posted on 3/11/14 at 11:48 am to Mizzoufan26
You didn't watch the video? You missed out. It's a funny one.
Posted on 3/11/14 at 12:15 pm to Mizzoufan26
quote:
Frank Haith coached still, zero cares. I will literally consider Missouri basketball to be dead until Haith is gone.
I am completely on board with this.
ATX, you are the basketball guy on here, I'm surprised you can't see what everyone else does. Sure, the 30 wins were great, but Haiths coaching woes were exposed against Norfolk St.
There is no way that team should have lost that game. Looking back it was a sign of what to expect in the future.
Then we have last year, and Pressey playing the chuck and duck late in close games. Killing any chance that team had to be good.
Now, we have this season. Admittedly, my interest level has been zero, but losing like that to Tennessee, when an NCAA birth is on the line?
That's downright pathetic.
Make the change now, while there's still time. The only problem I see is that Missouri is no longer a destination spot for coaches. I'm not sure it ever was to be honest. That's probably the bigger problem, instead of capitalizing on Norms legacy, it was pretty much forgotten by everyone except for those of us lived through those years. Years, that honestly, were more disappointing than they were satisfying.
It's probably time for some of you to realize that Missouri basketball has never been the nationally relevant program that you believed it was. The norm years were probably made easier to digest given the state of the football program in comparison.
Posted on 3/11/14 at 12:36 pm to Remote Controlled
Haith is too much of a hot head in games to think with a clear mind.
He's fully exposed as a joke, but Alden won't even mull it over during his next pedicure session, he'll be thinning about what color drapes to put up in the new luxury boxes at Faurot.
I wonder how much that Gant kid is wishing he could get out of his commitment. Who would thought he would've been in a better spot staying in Georgia.
He's fully exposed as a joke, but Alden won't even mull it over during his next pedicure session, he'll be thinning about what color drapes to put up in the new luxury boxes at Faurot.
I wonder how much that Gant kid is wishing he could get out of his commitment. Who would thought he would've been in a better spot staying in Georgia.
Posted on 3/11/14 at 2:35 pm to everytrueson
quote:
He is 20-16 in SEC play, he has no offensive scheme
They can set a high screen like no one else.
Posted on 3/11/14 at 2:39 pm to the808bass
Tod Palmer @todpalmer
Jabari Brown told me he'd be more inclined to stay at #Mizzou if Jordan Clarkson stayed. Clarkson said he'd stay if Bari stays. #impasse
Seems encouraging maybe?
Jabari Brown told me he'd be more inclined to stay at #Mizzou if Jordan Clarkson stayed. Clarkson said he'd stay if Bari stays. #impasse
Seems encouraging maybe?
Posted on 3/11/14 at 2:45 pm to TigerNick23
Well, it's either another year of no defense from the guards or a year of no scoring from the guards. Hard to say which I'd prefer.
Posted on 3/11/14 at 2:48 pm to the808bass
quote:
Well, it's either another year of no defense from the guards or a year of no scoring from the guards. Hard to say which I'd prefer.
Should be a totally different dynamic next year with the two guys coming in, and maybe Bello adds something.
I think teams have been able to lock in on Brown and Clarkson with such a lack of talent around them.
Posted on 3/11/14 at 3:10 pm to Sleeping Tiger
Honestly given the limitations Haith has been faced with this year it's astounding to have won 21 games to this point. It's evident Mizzou's three point defense this season has been horrendous, but what people fail to realize is Haith is in a no win situation. When he attempts to defend the three point line by playing 3-2 zone the back end of the defense gets shredded because our post players can't defend either so it's not just the guards that can't defend. When Haith attempts to counter this problem he goes back to 2-3 zone, and effectively gets shredded on the three point line. This all revolves around not having any post players to defend in the paint. If we had even a marginal post presence our guards would be able to defend the 3 point line, and not worrying about getting shredded down low. Both Rosburg and Williams don't play like they're 6'10 and 6'9, and that effectively has ruined Mizzou's season. Next year we add at least one capable post player in Zach Price, and one good on ball defender in Bellow so if we can convince one, or possibly both to stay we will improve next year.
Posted on 3/11/14 at 3:55 pm to Remote Controlled
quote:
ATX, you are the basketball guy on here, I'm surprised you can't see what everyone else does. Sure, the 30 wins were great, but Haiths coaching woes were exposed against Norfolk St.
See, I gotta stop you right there. Were Norm Stewart's coaching woes exposed in the first round against Northern Iowa in 1990? Yes or no? Are all 32 years of his career "dead" to some of you guys because of that? If so more power to you but its a non-starter on my end and a mentality I won't understand.
I do at least try to follow basketball closely and honestly I lend a lot more credence on the Norfolk subject to what Kim English has said about it on PowerMizzou than what all the internet armchair coaches think. It's a painful memory for him but he gave some very specific reasons as to what happened vs Norfolk & the bulk of them did not stem from Haith. He also has given really good breakdowns of how the 2013 and 2014 teams have differed from the 2012 team. Kimmie by his own admission is not one to surgarcoat what he thinks and I buy into his explanations for why the playbook has shortened and execution been poorer this year a whole lot more than I do the faceless interwebs crowd.
I am by no means a sunshine pumper but what I do try to be is very specific and detailed in the analysis of the situation. My buddies and I are hardcore MU hoops lifers. Eggs from tigerboard is another one like that and we dissect every little bit of the scenario. We are not without concern or awareness of things Haith could have done better this year. At its core, I don't think taking lots of transfers is a fundamental problem - see Hoiberg at Iowa State - nor do I think there is such a complete lack of tactical Xs and Os ability on Haith and his staff's part that its hopeless.
What I do think the biggest problem right now they face is finding an identity and system at Mizzou under Haith that they know they for sure want to recruit to year in and year out. I think Haith and staff have been so keyed on trying to find talent of any kind anywhere to make it through the next season that they haven't spent enough time building a long term vision for the program. But they can start to do that with the actual four year players in the system now...JW3, Wes Clark, Torren Jones, Namon Wright, Jakeenan Gant, there is a class of players who are gonna grow together now and so now is the time that Haith really needs to define what their long term roles will be and what kind of offensive and defensive structure they should grow into.
But the "Warrgarbl Fire Haith now Mizzou hoops is dead to me til he's gone YARRR pitchfork torch pitchfork!" shite I just don't care for cuz its so damn unrealistic and half the interwebs posters who spew it admittedly don't even like hoops that much to begin with. Fact is, NO MATTER what anyone wants, Haith is not going to be fired at the end of this year. He is a good 75% assured of not being fired at the end of next year either. Do I want Mizzou basketball to blow and miss the Dance for the next two years or do I want to see what there is to work with to at least find ways to stay competitive? Sign me up for the latter, thanks.
Also very noteable that many of the same "FIRE HAITH NOW YARRRRRR!" crowd also had their pitchforks fully out for Pinkel at exactly this time last year. Looks pretty stupid in light of the season we just had in football eh? Rhetorical you don't have to answer, we all know the answer. The rush to judgment, "Coach X sucks because THIS one game happened" type stuff cracks me up. Plus how many losing seasons has Pinkel had as Mizzou coach? How many losing seasons has Haith had as Mizzou coach? Pinkel had a losing record *last year*...did Haith? Hmmm...
Again, this is not saying Haith is flawless or is a perfect coach. The defense, and perimeter defense in particular, needs lots of work and its been a consistent problem his whole tenure here so its something to be concerned about. Does it mean he can't win? No. He won 30 games his first year with a crappy defensive team. Another coach whose perimeter defense usually sucked was Norm Stewart and he did OK overall. I just can't join in a crusade to say "this coach has no ability whatsoever" when he was handed a program with no incoming recruits and kept it in the NCAA tournament for two straight years and has at least fought for a third bid for some of this season. Sure he is not perfect, but he's also not in the "completely inept, no idea what he's doing" extremist catagory that so many posters would have me buy into.
Posted on 3/11/14 at 4:43 pm to Mizzou Fan in Da ATX
Long post. But good points.
I wonder how Stewart would have been viewed in this era of Internet boards, twitter, blogs, etc.
Good point about his failures, I don't recall anyone asking for him to hit the road. But then, I was 12 at the time.
I'll be honest, I wasn't on board with the Haith hire from day 1, it seemed like a strech to me. One of those "genius" hires if he succeeds, "Well, we thought that might not work out", if he fails.
I was hoping for more of a, "this guy is definitely going to put us over the hump" hire. I think that whole hiring process was my first moment of, "shite, we're not as special as I thought." I mean we got played by Painter, and Alden's plan B was a guy who has been a solid recruiter, but has always shown inconsistencies with X's and O's.
I not running around here starting fire Haith threads, and bitching about Alden's tenure. I just think the Haith hire was a experiment destined to failure.
While I agree he was dealt half a deck coming in, both he and Alden knew of the situation. Obviously, both believed that it was a burden that Haith could overcome. I think history will show us that it wasn't. Your point about building a long term vision is spot on. However, I don't think he'll ever get those ducks in a row.
I don't think that's just something that is a problem at Missouri either. It's a plague in CBB in general, but that's for another discussion.
I wonder how Stewart would have been viewed in this era of Internet boards, twitter, blogs, etc.
Good point about his failures, I don't recall anyone asking for him to hit the road. But then, I was 12 at the time.
I'll be honest, I wasn't on board with the Haith hire from day 1, it seemed like a strech to me. One of those "genius" hires if he succeeds, "Well, we thought that might not work out", if he fails.
I was hoping for more of a, "this guy is definitely going to put us over the hump" hire. I think that whole hiring process was my first moment of, "shite, we're not as special as I thought." I mean we got played by Painter, and Alden's plan B was a guy who has been a solid recruiter, but has always shown inconsistencies with X's and O's.
I not running around here starting fire Haith threads, and bitching about Alden's tenure. I just think the Haith hire was a experiment destined to failure.
While I agree he was dealt half a deck coming in, both he and Alden knew of the situation. Obviously, both believed that it was a burden that Haith could overcome. I think history will show us that it wasn't. Your point about building a long term vision is spot on. However, I don't think he'll ever get those ducks in a row.
I don't think that's just something that is a problem at Missouri either. It's a plague in CBB in general, but that's for another discussion.
Posted on 3/11/14 at 5:03 pm to Remote Controlled
quote:Matt Painter's records since playing Mizzou.
I mean we got played by Painter
2011-2012: 22-13 (10-8)
2012-2013: 16-18 (8-10)
2013-2014: 15-16 (5-13)
Frank Haith over the same timeframe.
2011-2012: 30-5 (14-4)
2012-2013: 23-11 (11-7)
2013-2014: 21-10 (9-9)
Thank goodness we didn't get Painter or else we'd have to read this exact same thread.
Posted on 3/11/14 at 5:17 pm to MIZ_STL
I'm aware of his shitty record.
I was speaking more about the fact we were used as leverage in a negotiation.
It was kind of a slap in the face.
I was speaking more about the fact we were used as leverage in a negotiation.
It was kind of a slap in the face.
Posted on 3/11/14 at 5:20 pm to Remote Controlled
No it wasn't. It was Matt Painter doing what was best for Matt Painter. Nothing about it was disrespectful.
Everyone likes to think their program is a destination program, that they can bring in whatever coaches they want. Most folks are wrong.
EDIT: And you addressed this point in your previous post. This was not meant to disagree with you. It was meant to confirm your statement.
Everyone likes to think their program is a destination program, that they can bring in whatever coaches they want. Most folks are wrong.
EDIT: And you addressed this point in your previous post. This was not meant to disagree with you. It was meant to confirm your statement.
This post was edited on 3/11/14 at 5:22 pm
Posted on 3/11/14 at 5:40 pm to MIZ_STL
Yep, and that was the moment for me.
And to address ATX's concern of who do you bring in to replace Haith?
I have zero answers for that. Which is why I think Haith will stay around for awhile.
Sink or swim I suppose. I sincerely hope my gut is wrong about Haith. I really want to like our basketball team again, I've been pretty much meh since Anderson was hired.
And to address ATX's concern of who do you bring in to replace Haith?
I have zero answers for that. Which is why I think Haith will stay around for awhile.
Sink or swim I suppose. I sincerely hope my gut is wrong about Haith. I really want to like our basketball team again, I've been pretty much meh since Anderson was hired.
Posted on 3/11/14 at 7:50 pm to Sleeping Tiger
quote:
I think teams have been able to lock in on Brown and Clarkson with such a lack of talent around them.
I think they've also figured out those 2 guys are 1 dimensional players. Clarkson can only dribble penetrate to the rim with his right hand. Can't shoot. Can't go left. Brown is a great pure shooter but can't create his own shot. He isn't natural going to the rim and tends to get out of control, though I give him credit for getting bailed out with fouls a lot of the time. Defense just has to deny Brown the pass (UT did a good job of this) and over play Clarkson to his left. Offense is completely shut down at that point.
Posted on 3/16/14 at 2:16 am to Mizzou Fan in Da ATX
quote:
What's your Plan B? Don't say Bruce Pearl or some unrealistic shite like that please.
With rumors of Pearl being a potential coach for Auburn I have to admit you were right, we had no shot at him.
I thought he might be willing to go to a bottom feeder if still in the SEC, but I was incorrect.
Posted on 3/16/14 at 2:20 pm to Mizzoufan26
How many times does it have to be pointed out thar both Denmon and English were injured in the big 12 tourney, ankle and wrist and played at less than full speed against Norfolk St. Not a good thing with a 7 man rotation.
What coach would want the Mizzou BBAll job if Mizzou fired it's coach after 3 seasons while making the tourney the first two years and winning 22 games the 3rd? Better times are ahead for Missouri basketball under coach Haith.
What coach would want the Mizzou BBAll job if Mizzou fired it's coach after 3 seasons while making the tourney the first two years and winning 22 games the 3rd? Better times are ahead for Missouri basketball under coach Haith.
Posted on 3/16/14 at 2:24 pm to Stlweir
quote:
Better times are ahead with mizzou basketball under haith
Go home, you're drunk
Posted on 3/16/14 at 3:10 pm to Stlweir
quote:Who needs friends when you've got job security like that?
What coach would want the Mizzou BBAll job if Mizzou fired it's coach after 3 seasons while making the tourney the first two years and winning 22 games the 3rd?
Posted on 3/16/14 at 3:24 pm to Stlweir
quote:
What coach would want the Mizzou BBAll job if Mizzou fired it's coach after 3 seasons while making the tourney the first two years and winning 22 games the 3rd? Better times are ahead for Missouri basketball under coach Haith.
No one seriously thinks Haith is getting fired this year.
Are we ready for two NIT seasons in a row?
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