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re: 2015 Football Recruiting Thread *Offer/Commit List and Videos on 1st Page*
Posted on 1/19/15 at 12:56 pm to Jagd Tiger
Posted on 1/19/15 at 12:56 pm to Jagd Tiger
quote:
so apparently then, stars "do matter"? Like I said, can't have it both ways.
Like you're trying to do?
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Posted on 1/19/15 at 1:09 pm to tobythetiger
quote:
No, the point he's making to people who place complete stock in the star rankings is about whose evaluation do you trust.
no his point as stated is that the "star system is a joke", if you're going to twist someones words around and make them say what you want, that's fine.
quote:yea, the point is other coaches win conferences w/out top classes, Briles, Gundy, Snyder, Peterson, Pedersen, and still others win and build up to the point they can recruit, like at Oregon. The other day a guy posted on the rant what the SEC conference records are, and Mizzou has 1 single win over an SEC team that finished in the top half of the conference, that's not in one year, that in 3 years. That's just outperforming at a better level than what Mizzou under Pinkel has done. Winning the division is nice, but it's not a "mark" of top teams, at this point the best we can hope for is staying in that "20ish" range for a few more years and that the next regime will be the ones to clear the final hurdle.
unless it's the recent Big 12(ish), because right now OU and UT suck,
This post was edited on 1/19/15 at 1:26 pm
Posted on 1/19/15 at 1:11 pm to the808bass
quote:
Like you're trying to do?
lol, no, not hardly, we finished what, 23rd, behind Kstate? Don't recruit top 20 and don't finish top 20, that's not having it "both ways".
Posted on 1/19/15 at 1:37 pm to Jagd Tiger
Sapp will visit on 1/30. Was at Tennessee last week, Michigan State this weekend, we get the last visit. We will probably take one of Sapp or Hall but I doubt we take both unless we see Agbasimere as a DE.
Posted on 1/19/15 at 1:38 pm to tobythetiger
quote:
No, the point he's making to people who place complete stock in the star rankings is about whose evaluation do you trust. For those who want to complain about star rankings, it says many of these players are already highly ranked by one or the other of the recruiting services.
What matters is the staff's evaluations, which have proven to be fairly reliable over time. I just don't know how anyone can argue otherwise.
This. One service has a guy a 2* and another service has the same guy a 4*? It's the same damn kid. If Mizzou offers, I trust that they believe the kid is closer to the 4* talent than the 2* talent.
The rankings are only good to a certain point. Once you start getting outside of the very few top end players and start getting to where the vast majority of players are, they falter because they don't see these kids unless they pay to do these camps.
Posted on 1/19/15 at 1:42 pm to Jagd Tiger
quote:
no his point as stated is that the "star system is a joke", if you're going to twist someones words around and make them say what you want, that's fine.
He actually summarized what I was saying pretty well. I never said any star system is a joke. I think they hold some validity with certain players but can't be the end all, be all for evaluating players. Once you get past the top however many players, which star system do you go by? You were complaining about the lack of 4* and higher and my point was maybe most of these kids are, in fact, 4* talent.
Posted on 1/19/15 at 1:43 pm to mosoblkcougar
I personally see Agbasimere as a DE.
Posted on 1/19/15 at 1:58 pm to reedus23
He honestly reminds me a lot of Golden. He came in as the #1 4* JUCO ILB and we switched him to DE and the rest is history. They are about the same size too, obviously Golden is 40 lbs heavier from the lifting and nutrition at Mizzou but I could easily see Agbasimere getting that size too.
Posted on 1/19/15 at 2:15 pm to Jagd Tiger
We finished #14 in the final AP dilbert. 5th the year before.
Again, you will do anything and everything to try and discredit Pinkel because you hate him. It's just that simple.
Over the last 8 years we are top 5 in wins, but our recruiting rankings would average somewhere in the 30s. That is the very definition of over performing.
Again, you will do anything and everything to try and discredit Pinkel because you hate him. It's just that simple.
Over the last 8 years we are top 5 in wins, but our recruiting rankings would average somewhere in the 30s. That is the very definition of over performing.
Posted on 1/19/15 at 2:17 pm to JesusQuintana
OVERPERFORMING
@BruinReport: Top 5 (Power 5) programs for performance relative to talent in last 9 years: 1. Missouri, 2. Wisconsin, 3. OregonSt., 4. Oregon, 5. Va. Tech
@BruinReport: @EyesonND @jcshurburtt Median Team Recruiting Rank from 02-14 (LINK ) cross referenced with Median Final Massey Rank. 06-14
@BruinReport: @EyesonND Used 02 as starting point to account for all 5 classes contributing to each team e.g. 02 class provide 5th years to 06 team
@BruinReport: @EyesonND And then relative performance is just the differential between median recruiting ranking and median final Massey ranking
@BruinReport: Top 5 (Power 5) programs for performance relative to talent in last 9 years: 1. Missouri, 2. Wisconsin, 3. OregonSt., 4. Oregon, 5. Va. Tech
@BruinReport: @EyesonND @jcshurburtt Median Team Recruiting Rank from 02-14 (LINK ) cross referenced with Median Final Massey Rank. 06-14
@BruinReport: @EyesonND Used 02 as starting point to account for all 5 classes contributing to each team e.g. 02 class provide 5th years to 06 team
@BruinReport: @EyesonND And then relative performance is just the differential between median recruiting ranking and median final Massey ranking
Posted on 1/19/15 at 2:46 pm to semotruman
quote:
I like how this class is shaping up after the weekend. Far better than I expected early on.
I'm a bit paranoid about TBJ visiting CUM this weekend though. Convince me I shouldn't be worried.
You should be, he's gone.
Posted on 1/19/15 at 4:24 pm to reedus23
Maybe I'm confusing you with someone who was smart enough to say not every top recruiting team will win at the top, but every team at the top will be a top recruiter. Could've been SEMO or someone who said it, but it was 100% correct. We already know Pinkel isn't capable of out coaching his recruiting deficiencies, and it's one of the reason no Michigan or tOSU is going to come begging him to coach there. There isn't any mystery about who wins and who recruits well, they are one and the same, the occasional outlyer like a team that beats some sub .500 teams to win a division, doesn't change that at all.
Posted on 1/19/15 at 4:48 pm to Stlox
quote:
Pinkel and staff gets kids that are a year behind in developement that Saban gets, but they do develop. He's just got to keep winning. That gets the higher "stars" (aka the kids more developed).
Nice analysis. Pretty much sums up how Missouri has had to do it up until now.
Pinkel is improving as a coach. Trying to improve the facilities. Made what (seems to be) a fantastic DC hire in Barry Odom, when the safe play would have been Coach Kul. He's been forced to shift his area of recruiting focus from Texas the Southeast and is making inroads now scoring the same under the radar guys he did in Texas.
He's had a lot on his plate in the last 3-4 years and has managed to do it while winning in the SEC. What's not to love?? Yes, the remaining hurdles are the biggest, but all the arrows are still pointing up.
I'm excited as hell looking forward to the future and wish Spring ball was here right now.
Posted on 1/19/15 at 4:59 pm to reedus23
quote:
Unless things have changed, ESL takes great pride in their program. They used to hold a chip on their shoulder against people/teams that would not travel to ESL. ESL might be a rough neighborhood, but by not being willing to go there, the belief is that those people/teams are looking down upon ESL as 2nd class citizens
My job takes me all over the Metro and I can tell you I would feel MUCH-MUCH better going into East St. Louis right now than anyplace north of 40 and bordered by 70 and 170. I'm flat arse refusing to go, period.
East St. Louis is a sleepy little hamlet compared to North St. Louis anymore.
Posted on 1/19/15 at 5:09 pm to Jagd Tiger
I said that and stand by it as for winning national championship games. I also said we'd never be able to get top 10 classes year in and year out if for no other reason than geography and system bias. So the goal has to eventually be to get classes around the top 20 or so. Routinely. Not irregularly.
Where you and I diverge is when you take it the extra step to say that because we're not top 10 we suck. Or when you somehow correlate the inability to land top 10 classes every year with GP's inability to coach up his teams.
We also diverge when you seem to think that there are instant fixes or only one fix(get rid of GP). To get to the point that we are getting top 20 classes routinely will take time but yes, that has to be the goal. And yes, I talk about what can be done, even by GP, to get to that goal IMO. I recognize the impact changing conferences and thus recruiting territory has. I recognize the influence that one bad year can have on future classes. It takes time and consistency. GP is bringing that whether you like it or not. I think this years class will end up being an example of how it can pay off.
I think the biggest difference is that I tend to recognize those things that GP has accomplished and the good that he has done while also pointing out things that I think can and need to be done better. Others dismiss everything accomplished and look at matters as a helpless cause.
Where you and I diverge is when you take it the extra step to say that because we're not top 10 we suck. Or when you somehow correlate the inability to land top 10 classes every year with GP's inability to coach up his teams.
We also diverge when you seem to think that there are instant fixes or only one fix(get rid of GP). To get to the point that we are getting top 20 classes routinely will take time but yes, that has to be the goal. And yes, I talk about what can be done, even by GP, to get to that goal IMO. I recognize the impact changing conferences and thus recruiting territory has. I recognize the influence that one bad year can have on future classes. It takes time and consistency. GP is bringing that whether you like it or not. I think this years class will end up being an example of how it can pay off.
I think the biggest difference is that I tend to recognize those things that GP has accomplished and the good that he has done while also pointing out things that I think can and need to be done better. Others dismiss everything accomplished and look at matters as a helpless cause.
Posted on 1/19/15 at 5:16 pm to reedus23
quote:
I personally see Agbasimere as a DE.
I do too. His pursuit on his film was relentless.
I'd love to know what his wingspan is. It seemed massive.
Posted on 1/19/15 at 5:33 pm to Jagd Tiger
Pete Scantlebury @PeteScantlebury
New #Mizzou commit Franklin Agbasimere is now a 5.5 3-star recruit, per Rivals.
New #Mizzou commit Franklin Agbasimere is now a 5.5 3-star recruit, per Rivals.
Posted on 1/19/15 at 5:41 pm to Jagd Tiger
The difference at this point is facilities. There is a huge difference between the facilities that Mizzou has compared to tOSU, Bama, Florida and others.
This is why GP was all about the south end zone project. Have to at least match most of the SEC.
This is why GP was all about the south end zone project. Have to at least match most of the SEC.
Posted on 1/19/15 at 5:41 pm to Mizz-SEC
quote:
quote:
I personally see Agbasimere as a DE.
I do too. His pursuit on his film was relentless.
I'd love to know what his wingspan is. It seemed massive.
I think so too. Great DE to match up with Beckner on the line.
Sapp changing things for us for the last visit may indicate something. The fact that he will be carted around with TBJ will help and we will be pulling out all stops for the two of them.
Beckner is in or so the Mizzou coaches have been telling any coach who listens on their HS visits on Friday.
I wouldn't be surprised if Saban stopped by Helias to keep a certain TE from straying. If there's a reason for Saban to come, he may have cause for the worry. I wonder if a spot is being held for a visit the weekend with TBJ and Sapp.
Posted on 1/19/15 at 6:00 pm to wubilli
That and instate talent base, donations, fan support, history etc.
GP has us winning way more than we should, realistically. We are way far behind the teams winning championships. We are much closer on the field though. GP is just a great coach. Plain and simple.
GP has us winning way more than we should, realistically. We are way far behind the teams winning championships. We are much closer on the field though. GP is just a great coach. Plain and simple.
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