Started By
Message
re: Same as Muschamp, time for change
Posted on 10/14/17 at 1:07 am to fibonaccisquared
Posted on 10/14/17 at 1:07 am to fibonaccisquared
quote:
Well... they *can* be a measure of your offense's ability to move the ball
He said are, not can, those are two different words.
It's nice to move the ball, better to score.
quote:
With the previous said, you realize that's an awful example to try and make your point right?
Wrong. It's exactly the right answer to disprove that yards automatically equal success. The rest you're talking about is the exact reason why -- points are not scored simply on yards alone.
Will Muschamp is a champion of that -- not having the yards but having just enough points to beat teams that outgain him.
Again, this is a debate of are vs. can -- absolute vs. malleable.
quote:
What is it with choosing shitty examples to try and prove a point. I'm certain there are good ones out there, but this was a shitty spot to try and plant your flag if you're trying to make a point regarding offense.
It was the exact point to make.
They don't equate automatically to success as much as points do. Are vs. Can. Maybe you ought to read a bit better?
Don't take the praise from the detractors on the board, they're among the stupidest on the Gators' forum with the exception of Finch.
You fit right in.
2
Posted on 10/14/17 at 1:19 am to TJGator1215
quote:
Yards are an indication of success
Nope
Wazzou - 337 yards of offense
Cal - 365
Close game eh? Nope, it was a blowout 37-3. all those yards, not 1 td for the Cougs. Yards dont mean shite.
Posted on 10/14/17 at 1:29 am to dbuchanon
Like recruiting stars, don't always mean success, but i would guarantee more yards gained translates to more wins over 70 percent of games.
The fact that you need specific games to implicate a failing argument only shows that generally, it is true.
Just like turnover margin generally indicates the winner if a greater than 1 discrepancy. Basic football common sense.
Though the real indicator will be yards per play, and conversion success. If a defense leaves a short field, yards aren't needed. Considering UF's defense hasn't forced one in quite awhile, this doesn't help us. Add in we have no return game at all, and yards are really the only measure of success we can have for the offense.
The issue is simple. We have poor coaching. Defense can't create turnovers, and is one of the worst tackling teams in the country.
The offense can't get play calls in, can't use basic sense in time management, and doesn't adjust to its personnel.
Let's not even get started on special teams. Townsend is a God, Eddy is awesome when Town holds the ball well, but the rest is an absolute nightmare. Punt returns we have frequent bad angles and players don't hold their gaps. We have zero return game despite never going for a punt block(it's like we don't even try to block on them). Kick returns get to what..the fifteen yard line?
Our issues aren't just offense. We have major coaching issues every side of the ball. We have some really good position coaches, but the guys calling the shots are rather bad at their jobs. Shannon the best of the three cords. He at least knows how to defend in the red zone with his bend don't break.
The fact that you need specific games to implicate a failing argument only shows that generally, it is true.
Just like turnover margin generally indicates the winner if a greater than 1 discrepancy. Basic football common sense.
Though the real indicator will be yards per play, and conversion success. If a defense leaves a short field, yards aren't needed. Considering UF's defense hasn't forced one in quite awhile, this doesn't help us. Add in we have no return game at all, and yards are really the only measure of success we can have for the offense.
The issue is simple. We have poor coaching. Defense can't create turnovers, and is one of the worst tackling teams in the country.
The offense can't get play calls in, can't use basic sense in time management, and doesn't adjust to its personnel.
Let's not even get started on special teams. Townsend is a God, Eddy is awesome when Town holds the ball well, but the rest is an absolute nightmare. Punt returns we have frequent bad angles and players don't hold their gaps. We have zero return game despite never going for a punt block(it's like we don't even try to block on them). Kick returns get to what..the fifteen yard line?
Our issues aren't just offense. We have major coaching issues every side of the ball. We have some really good position coaches, but the guys calling the shots are rather bad at their jobs. Shannon the best of the three cords. He at least knows how to defend in the red zone with his bend don't break.
Posted on 10/14/17 at 4:25 am to dbuchanon
Cal forced 7 turnovers. That had something to do with it. Do you even read my posts?
Posted on 10/14/17 at 9:12 am to dbuchanon
quote:
Lost his job for being ineffective,not knowing protections and failing to audible to put offense in the best plays based on defensive alighment. Everyone said all the time the offense went smoother with LDR out there. Next complaint??
Del Rio was a good change of pace in the UK game, but he only started the Vandy game and wasn't effective. When Franks came in after the injury he was clearly the better of the two that day.
I think Del Rio played an important role and provided great depth, but IMO he shouldn't be called the "starter" considering Franks has been the starter for every other game and was from Day 1 of the regular season. Franks is still a very young QB, there are going to be times when he struggles, so it is important to have a competent back-up that knows the offense that can come in if need be. Don't know if that exists right now, so from that perspective his injury is a loss.
This post was edited on 10/14/17 at 9:55 am
Posted on 10/14/17 at 10:58 am to bgator85
quote:
Del Rio was a good change of pace in the UK game, but he only started the Vandy game and wasn't effective. When Franks came in after the injury he was clearly the better of the two that day.
I think Del Rio played an important role and provided great depth, but IMO he shouldn't be called the "starter" considering Franks has been the starter for every other game and was from Day 1 of the regular season. Franks is still a very young QB, there are going to be times when he struggles, so it is important to have a competent back-up that knows the offense that can come in if need be. Don't know if that exists right now, so from that perspective his injury is a loss.
It is considerably calmer with Del Rio in at offense. Franks had a very fortunate tip that went right into the hands of his receiver and several other passes that were not good ideas but we lucked out by Vanderbilt just not having the personnel to make him pay.
He cleaned it up for the LSU game -- but then we saw why Del Rio should have been the starter from the very beginning: His third/fourth down game is absolute garbage. Del Rio's is not -- which is what we need. We don't need a cannon arm with no aim, we need a guy who can help us move down the field, convert third and short with his arm if need be, keep the defense off-balance.
Franks ain't that guy until he proves us otherwise.
Posted on 10/14/17 at 11:48 am to StrawsDrawnAtRandom
It’s been a mixed bag. There’s times you see the potential in Franks and then moments like UK where Del Rio needed to step in.
I think Franks has been pretty good and IMO has been better than he gets credit for. His numbers at this point are very similar to where Grier was 79 passes into his first season.
I think Franks has been pretty good and IMO has been better than he gets credit for. His numbers at this point are very similar to where Grier was 79 passes into his first season.
Posted on 10/14/17 at 11:55 am to bgator85
quote:
I think Franks has been pretty good and IMO has been better than he gets credit for. His numbers at this point are very similar to where Grier was 79 passes into his first season.
Except Grier had "it".
Clutch, cool under pressure, gusty.
Franks has shown flashes, but Grier was the better player by far.
Posted on 10/14/17 at 12:02 pm to boXerrumble
quote:
Except Grier had "it".
Clutch, cool under pressure, gusty.
Franks has shown flashes, but Grier was the better player by far.
Won’t get an argument from me on that
Posted on 10/14/17 at 12:08 pm to StrawsDrawnAtRandom
quote:
He said are, not can, those are two different words.
It's nice to move the ball, better to score.
Oh I'm so glad you decided to make this a semantic argument. I corrected his post on what would have been a less "arguable" way to make the same statement. But, while we're at it, let's quote exactly what he said...
quote:
Yards are an indication of success. The more yards you get the more chances to score. That's how we beat VU. Its no surprise we have trouble scoring because we don't get lots of yards. You have to rely on turnovers when that happens and this D has gotten 0 the last 3 games.
He didn't say "always an indication", he said "an indication"... so let's investigate that a bit...
I'd say a reasonable way of testing that hypothesis might be comparing the top TOTAL OFFENSE teams and comparing them to the top SCORING OFFENSE teams... fortunately, that's easy enough...
I'll spare the copy/paste of the actual teams since tRant doesn't allow for great formatting, but here are some quick links:
Total Offense
Scoring Offense
Top 10 teams only:
7/10 teams are in both the top ten of scoring offense and total offense. 70%
Top 25 teams only:
19/25 teams are in both the top 25 of scoring offense and total offense. 76%
Top 50 teams only:
39/50 teams are in both the top 25 of scoring offense and total offense. 78%
Top 25 Total Offense compared to top 50 Scoring Offenses:
24/25 teams in the top Total Offense are also in the top 50 Scoring Offense. 96%
[Just in case you were curious, the 2016 numbers are pretty similar - 80%, 80%, 90%, 100% respectively for the same comparisons above.]
Or in other words, it's almost like there is some kind of correlation between total yardage and scoring... aka "an indication of (offensive) success".
quote:
Wrong. It's exactly the right answer to disprove that yards automatically equal success. The rest you're talking about is the exact reason why -- points are not scored simply on yards alone.
There is an assumption that you made that wasn't stated... He said they were an indication, and if you weren't such a blind homer, you'd be able to see the above statistics point out that while there can certainly be outliers, if one wanted to look at total offense as an indicator, it's not a bad place to start. Is it the *only* statistic that matters? No... But that's also not what he said.
quote:
Again, this is a debate of are vs. can -- absolute vs. malleable.
Ah, but if we're going to try and get semantic on a losing argument, let's make sure we're semantic about everything...
"indication of success" vs "automatic success"
"an" vs "the best"
The only one trying to make this an absolute is you... Maybe you ought to read a bit better?
quote:
Don't take the praise from the detractors on the board, they're among the stupidest on the Gators' forum with the exception of Finch.
You fit right in.
Look man... we can go round and round and I can continue to facilitate you making an idiot of yourself on your own board, or you can just quietly shrink back into the quiet lack of responses that you've had on every other comment I've made pointing out your flawed arguments. TJ may not be the world's greatest poster, and he certainly makes flawed arguments, but you're not immune. I dunno most of the other posters here... atlgator and I went round and round a few months back on the recruiting board, but overall I've got respect for him. You have this strange air of superiority that is neither earned nor warranted... Whatever you think of the posters you're criticizing, you do in fact, fit right in.
Also, INB4 TL;DR...
Posted on 10/14/17 at 12:14 pm to Gatorbait2008
quote:
Like recruiting stars, don't always mean success, but i would guarantee more yards gained translates to more wins over 70 percent of games.
See above. You would be correct.
But don't let that get in the way of another flawed Straws argument.Posted on 10/14/17 at 12:22 pm to fibonaccisquared
quote:
Top 25 Total Offense compared to top 50 Scoring Offenses:
Since I left it out, if you flip that to 25 Scoring Offenses compared to top 50 Total Offenses:
23/25 in 2017 thus far: 92%
25/25 in 2016... 100%
Posted on 10/14/17 at 12:27 pm to StrawsDrawnAtRandom
quote:
It is considerably calmer with Del Rio in at offense. Franks had a very fortunate tip that went right into the hands of his receiver and several other passes that were not good ideas but we lucked out by Vanderbilt just not having the personnel to make him pay. He cleaned it up for the LSU game -- but then we saw why Del Rio should have been the starter from the very beginning: His third/fourth down game is absolute garbage. Del Rio's is not -- which is what we need. We don't need a cannon arm with no aim, we need a guy who can help us move down the field, convert third and short with his arm if need be, keep the defense off-balance. Franks ain't that guy until he proves us otherwise.
So what your saying is that in year 3 of Macs tenure our best chance to win is a QB who was a walkin at Bama ? Our best chance to win is with a transfer that is a Coaches son but the least talented QB on the roster ? You do under stand that makes Mac look bad .
Del Rio was the backup QB and his career is done at UF now .
Posted on 10/14/17 at 11:11 pm to tjv305
quote:
So what your saying is that in year 3 of Macs tenure our best chance to win is a QB who was a walkin at Bama ? Our best chance to win is with a transfer that is a Coaches son but the least talented QB on the roster ? You do under stand that makes Mac look bad .
Del Rio was the backup QB and his career is done at UF now .
I mean, I get the desire to run Del Rio out there from a game manager perspective, but Franks in year 2, grad transfer in Zaire... there's no excuse not to have *one* of them ready to run your offense in a semi-decent capacity... It's one thing to say you lost your starting QB and they were a *clear* starter by a wide margin... when you lose your starter but the QB hierarchy was more or less 1a/1b/1c rather than a clear 1/2/3, it's a little disingenuous to then give the coach a pass because one went down. Del Rio couldn't win the job in the offseason, and he was last year's starter... that's gotta count for something even if he was determined to be the "best option" during this season again.
Posted on 10/14/17 at 11:16 pm to fibonaccisquared
Once again. The Georgia fan destroying Straws.
It's sad, but I think the Georgia fan cares more about our program than Straws at this point. Straws just wants to make sure Mac plays golf with him on Sunday.
It's sad, but I think the Georgia fan cares more about our program than Straws at this point. Straws just wants to make sure Mac plays golf with him on Sunday.
Posted on 10/14/17 at 11:25 pm to Gatorbait2008
Maybe Mac is Stawa uncle ? I didn't get why he wants to blame everyone else . I could understand is Mac was s defensive guy . When your head coach is an offensive guy and your offense sucks his first 3 years then he is to blame .
Posted on 10/15/17 at 7:23 am to fibonaccisquared
One of the best posts I've seen on this board in a while. Random good job Georgia fan.
Posted on 10/15/17 at 9:01 pm to slayerxing
We have 4 TD passes so far this year. One was a hail Mary. The other two were WR's being left ungaurded by Kentucky. That is worse than Muschamp.
Posted on 10/15/17 at 10:08 pm to gatorbait_007
Far be it from me to question the quality of a UF degree but...
1+2=4?
quote:
We have 4 TD passes so far this year
quote:
One was a hail Mary
quote:
The other two
1+2=4?
Posted on 10/16/17 at 12:01 am to gatorbait_007
Will Grier has passed for more TDs yesterday than we've thrown for all year. Sigh, he's done it twice. He's got 21 to our 4. He's only thrown 80 more passes and yet he has a 1000 more yards than all of UFs QBs Macs a dumbass for running him off. Hell even if he stayed Mac would have him 3rd on the depth chart.
This post was edited on 10/16/17 at 12:10 am
Page 8 of 12
Popular
Back to top
Follow SECRant for SEC Football News