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UFMatt
Florida Fan
Gator Nation - Everywhere
Member since Oct 2010
7731 posts

re: Off-topic question for Gator students and/or alumni
quote:

Do you get it?


We can agree to disagree.

While I love the Gators and have supported the sports teams and the university for my entire life, had family members attend UF and graduated from UF, family members with season tickets since the 1950's in multiple sports, the fact remains that UF is a bastion for liberal policies and practices that I will never support. That is not a conspiracy theory, that is a well known fact! Do you get that?


slayerxing
Florida Fan
Gainesville
Member since Feb 2010
10168 posts
 Online 

re: Off-topic question for Gator students and/or alumni
I don't understand you.

I am telling you I worked in admissions. I know admissions professionals. I have worked at the University for a long time in many different capacities.

There is no secret liberal conspiracy to admit more black people.

And I want to change your mind because when fellow graduates of this institution that I love go out in the public and share their thoughts on this LIKE THEY ARE FACT, it drives me crazy.

What you are thinking is not a fact. It is an opinion. One that is not supported by any statistics besides one - number of applicants vs number of acceptances, which is absolutely not enough to prove your point, especially because so many fewer black people apply to UF than white people.

I also work in Ag at UF and let me tell you - that is NOT a bastion of liberal policy. Neither is the business school. Or engineering. Etc.

Stop saying you KNOW. You DON'T KNOW. You believe. And why you would WANT to believe this I don't know.

But you obviously have an agenda, whether you know it or not, to continue to beat this drum like you know what you are talking about.




UFMatt
Florida Fan
Gator Nation - Everywhere
Member since Oct 2010
7731 posts

re: Off-topic question for Gator students and/or alumni
Look, I'm not going to continue to argue with you. We will have to agree to disagree. You are correct that it is my opinion of the liberal bias that exists at UF and don't believe that I am the only one with that opinion. In fact, I know that I am not because I hear about it too often.

I have no agenda other than hoping that UF and other universities apply equal admission and other policies to all, regardless of race, creed, color, religious beliefs, sexual preferences or whatever else people are separated by.

Go Gators!



atlgator
Florida Fan
Jacksonville, Atlanta, Gainesville
Member since Aug 2014
5318 posts

re: Off-topic question for Gator students and/or alumni
Not trying to throw myself in the middle of this argument, but this is where the bias belief stems from. No idea if it happens at UF, but it happens in the US because of this discriminatory (and wrongly decided imo) Supreme Court decision in 2003:

Grutter v. Bollinger


slayerxing
Florida Fan
Gainesville
Member since Feb 2010
10168 posts
 Online 

re: Off-topic question for Gator students and/or alumni
Just because other people agree with you doesn’t mean you all can’t be wrong together.

I’m sure there are individuals at uf that have liberal bias. I’m sure there are people with conservative bias. I have met both.

That being said Admissions is not biased against white people. For that matter since you keep bringing up liberals, liberals aren’t biased against white people either. Just like conservatives that work in admissions aren’t biased against minorities.

How can you believe something without proof?

This mindset is seriously flawed. You should consider being open to be proven wrong. What would it take to even change your mind? How could anyone ever prove uf doesn’t have biased admissions?
This post was edited on 1/28 at 5:49 pm


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slayerxing
Florida Fan
Gainesville
Member since Feb 2010
10168 posts
 Online 

re: Off-topic question for Gator students and/or alumni
Michigan has a history on this issue that is different from uf. I’m not making a blanket statement about all universities. But based on my professional experience uf does not discriminate based on race. Even though I know they would love to admit more balanced classes based on race. They just can’t justify it though.


atlgator
Florida Fan
Jacksonville, Atlanta, Gainesville
Member since Aug 2014
5318 posts

re: Off-topic question for Gator students and/or alumni
I think that’s the issue some people have. It should be based 100% solely on merits. Grades, test scores, extra curricular, leadership positions, etc.

All prestigious schools should be (and hopefully are) meritocracies. The perception that they are not, whether true or not, is bad for higher education and it’s authority/respect in society as a whole.

I’m glad UF seemingly does what’s right, and admits based on merits and not characteristics that we are born with and cannot control. That’s the most fair and just process.


slayerxing
Florida Fan
Gainesville
Member since Feb 2010
10168 posts
 Online 

re: Off-topic question for Gator students and/or alumni
UF does take into account holistc factors regarding diversity, based on their own admissions policies. So like, what kind of adversity did you overcome, what unique perspectives can you bring to the educational setting of the university, and they try to maybe project into the future to see what kind of contribution you make to society.

So just for example, let's say someone applies with weaker grades and test scores, but they have other evidence in the application that indicates they are a genius at engineering and won multiple science fairs or something. That person could get admitted based on the idea they may become some famous engineer and be a net benefit to the campus, society, and bring fame to the institution.

So if that is bias, OK. There it is. But the process is holistic specifically because grades and especially test scores alone have been notoriously inconsistent at predicting future career success and are not always the best barometer of success in admissions.

I'll leave it at that.





atlgator
Florida Fan
Jacksonville, Atlanta, Gainesville
Member since Aug 2014
5318 posts

re: Off-topic question for Gator students and/or alumni
100% agree, that’s more poignant than I could word it.

My only issue would be if part of the decision making process included giving “points” towards acceptance based solely on factors that nobody can control and are based on sheer luck at birth- race, gender, sexuality, etc.

Let me ask you this: is there any truth to the thought out there that out of state students are admitted at a higher rate?


joshnorris14
Florida Fan
Florida
Member since Jan 2009
42501 posts

re: Off-topic question for Gator students and/or alumni
Knowing the black students from my high school (And at UF in general) that somehow got in vs the white students from my high school that didn't, UF absolutely admits on a race based curve


slayerxing
Florida Fan
Gainesville
Member since Feb 2010
10168 posts
 Online 

re: Off-topic question for Gator students and/or alumni
Well with that anecdotal evidence I guess case closed...
This post was edited on 1/28 at 8:11 pm


slayerxing
Florida Fan
Gainesville
Member since Feb 2010
10168 posts
 Online 

re: Off-topic question for Gator students and/or alumni
UF has been more competitive for top out of state applicants in recent years as they have climbed up the rankings.

So what happened, in about 2010, 2011 maybe, UF started getting a stronger pool of out of state applicants.

Consequently, more started getting admitted. Pretty simple.

Now, some people have accused them of a bias here, because out of state students pay more to be here, but the reality is the applicant pool just got stronger, and that has continued to increase as UF's prestige has rocketed upwards.

Consider this: The UF administration is ridiculously afraid of law suits. There is no way this group would have any official policy of obvious bias in the admissions process.

They designed a defensible HOLISTIC process which gives them a little bit of wiggle room, but only just enough to keep diversity/inclusion nazi's from saying the school discriminates against minorities.

What's so funny about UF is you have people on BOTH sides, minorities and white people, saying that UF is biased. People just get mad when they get denied, and one of the easiest rationalizations a person can make about failing to get admitted is that the system is somehow rigged against them. The victim mentality of denied students at UF is something magical and deeply sad to behold.





joshnorris14
Florida Fan
Florida
Member since Jan 2009
42501 posts

re: Off-topic question for Gator students and/or alumni
quote:

Well with that anecdotal evidence I guess case closed...


Kids from the same high school without as good of extracurriculars, lower GPA, and worse test scores get in over students with better of all three just happen to be black. I'm sure it's coincidental
This post was edited on 1/28 at 8:24 pm


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LuciusSulla
Florida Fan
Oxford, MS
Member since Nov 2010
2296 posts

re: Off-topic question for Gator students and/or alumni
quote:

Knowing the black students from my high school (And at UF in general) that somehow got in vs the white students from my high school that didn't, UF absolutely admits on a race based curve


Maybe, maybe not. Admissions has been trying to tell people for a decade now that they aren't taking people based solely on GPA and ACT/SAT scores but more on their entire body of work. Back in 2012/2013 the provost or someone was quoted as saying doing something like getting a patent in high school on something would be better than a perfect SAT score. UF likes interesting people - that's how I got into one of the Top 10 PhD programs they have despite having a train wreck of an undergrad GPA and a very solid, but not necessarily top drawer GPA or GRE score. Better than most? You bet? Top 10 percent on those two items alone? Probably not. They just thought my background was weird and liked that I had successfully done a lot of oddball shite. And so far, at least in the world of academia, I'm doing better than most of my cohort, so I guess they got something right.

I'm a straight white male from the Deep South btw with a pretty serious libertarian streak. I had a communist on my dissertation committee who I picked. We didn't agree on a damn thing economically, but we got a long well. There are a few blowhards around, on the left and right actually at UF (though I will admit it is skewed to the left), but my experience was most people didn't really give a shite on what you thought, only if you could defend your position intelligently.

A not so big secret at every university at which I've ever been as a student or professor - the vast majority of us don't like other professors who use their classes as soapbox even if we agree with what they are preaching about.

But I get it - the suburbs are sold on this idea that if you do all the right quantitative things, test scores, clubs, GPA, then that means you must be best, even if in practice those aren't always great predictors on their own. I had a good friend whose father used to screen FBI applicants. He once told me that they were wary of students with 4.0s and great test scores because they felt like a lot of time either those students had never really been tested by life or that they had been running so hard since junior high that they were due to crack up. In general, their best new agents tended to be the ones who had a completely blown semester at some point in their lives and recovered.

A little of that is at play when it comes to admissions, though from a different angle. The concern is that modern primary education with it's teach toward the test philosophy - ironically mostly in place to appease the three R's crowd that wants hard numbers on what their kids are learning - says almost nothing about critical thinking skills, creativity, or even the ability to work as a part of a team. My experience with UF, both my own and in watching admissions, is that they will take lower GPAs and test scores (not that much lower, but lower) if I student has shown promise as a leader, critical thinker, creative, or something like that.

So maybe the black students got a second look just because they were black, or maybe, and more likely, they were just more interesting prospects.

I've got students from UF who have been out now for 10 years, and I have students from other universities out in the world as well. In general, the UF grads out perform the others in how fast their careers are advancing. I realize that is anecdotal, but without some contrary data, my opinion is that admissions may be missing some great students, but they certainly aren't just letting scabs in.



slayerxing
Florida Fan
Gainesville
Member since Feb 2010
10168 posts
 Online 

re: Off-topic question for Gator students and/or alumni
I’ve had a similar experience as a white male. I’m almost done with my PhD - started it later in life - and my admission to a really strong program at uf was based on my life experience certainly not my grades.

I’ve heard so many of these complaints in admissions. “Person a and person b are the same except for race. I know because I went to school with them and we were friends”

That is never true. You don’t how they wrote their essays. You don’t know all their life experiences.

The essay responses do a lot to differentiate between applicants. Thoughtful responses there can definitely get you in over someone with better grades. Easily. I got in to uf over my best friend who had better grades because he fricked around in his essay.

People should stop perpetuating these race based myths. It’s not good for anyone.



bigDgator
Florida Fan
Dallas, TX
Member since Oct 2008
22585 posts

re: Off-topic question for Gator students and/or alumni
quote:

Consider this: The UF administration is ridiculously afraid of law suits. There is no way this group would have any official policy of obvious bias in the admissions process.



Can you send me a link on UF's official admissions policy and process please? TIA


slayerxing
Florida Fan
Gainesville
Member since Feb 2010
10168 posts
 Online 

re: Off-topic question for Gator students and/or alumni
LINK / - instructions to apply as a freshman
Whole process

Scroll to the bottom for their little blurb on their admissions philosophy for freshmen.

LINK
More info




bigDgator
Florida Fan
Dallas, TX
Member since Oct 2008
22585 posts

re: Off-topic question for Gator students and/or alumni
Thanks. You are right. Holistic approach, right there in black and white. I really would not think a major public university would play it down the middle, but at the very least this gives me hope that we are not headed down the same path as Mizzou.
This post was edited on 1/30 at 4:11 pm


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UFMatt
Florida Fan
Gator Nation - Everywhere
Member since Oct 2010
7731 posts

re: Off-topic question for Gator students and/or alumni
quote:

slayerxing


Your strong and knowledgeable defense of UF's admission policy has swayed my beliefs about it somewhat, although I am still skeptical. I only hope that it is an accurate indication of the policies that are being used. A lot of people apply at UF and a large %, more of some races than others are denied. I hope you are correct that it is for the right reasons. All Gators should share a love of the university and what it stands for, not just the sports teams.

Now let's discuss the liberal agenda that is being taught, not really, that is a discussion for another thread.

Go Gators!
This post was edited on 1/30 at 8:02 am


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