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re: Discussion on cheating during recruiting.
Posted on 12/21/18 at 1:19 pm to bengalbait
Posted on 12/21/18 at 1:19 pm to bengalbait
quote:
I’m an SEC fan all the way, but would love to see those schools mired in NCAA investigations with fired coaches and vacated titles/wins. Let’s level the playing field for heavens sake.
If you would have asked me a few weeks ago, I'd've said that they would never be caught.
At this point, though, watching Alabama and Georgia go at each other's throats I think it's becoming increasingly more dangerous. Not only that, I don't think Kirby can manage the egos like Saban has. I think that, over everything else, is the difference between Saban and Kirby is that he can actually juggle the players.
I've seen several...recruiting gaffes from his end this and last year, but in general that just struck me as strange.
Pappoe: Kirby offered a teammate from Pappoe's high school a scholarship and told him that he could commit when he wanted to, when Harris (Pappoe's Teammate) went to commit, he said that it wasn't a commitable offer. Harris is now at Alabama.
Plumlee: Kirby had a committed QB since I think June or July, that would be Plumlee. He didn't permit him to take Official Visits to other schools, then suddenly flips a 4* from Ohio State at the last minute. I'm going to wager that there is a seriously broken promise there, and not only that: Plumlee could have taken visits to other places if Kirby was going to cut his legs out from under him.
Mathis: The Quarterback that joined Kirby's class in like one day in spite of never having set foot on campus (Georgia claims he had an unofficial in June, I don't believe it) and who had zero crystal balls to Georgia.
Emery: LSU Running Back who recently flipped, committed to Georgia after one visit with zero crystal balls to go there.
Elephant in the Room (Justin Fields): Quarterback who was clearly promised something other than he received, and is now leaving the program after one year.
These are just off of the top of my head, but I'm sure if I go back and check some Tweets I could find more gaffes/mishandling that look very, very strange.
To me, it's only a matter of time.
2
Posted on 12/21/18 at 4:09 pm to StrawsDrawnAtRandom
Kirby made the same mistake Freeze did. He took it from 0-100 without proving his coaching bonafides first. Probably because he doesn't have any. Does anyone on Earth think if Kirby had taken a G5 job like McElwain or Bobo or Morris that he would have proven himself to be an immediate contender at a P5 level, let alone the top of the SEC? Hell no.
When coaches, players, and recruits know that you're just a guy with a recruiting machine doing all your work, they have a lot less respect for you as opposed to Saban, Meyer, etc.
When coaches, players, and recruits know that you're just a guy with a recruiting machine doing all your work, they have a lot less respect for you as opposed to Saban, Meyer, etc.
Posted on 12/21/18 at 4:30 pm to BloodSweat&Beers
Baseball is getting an entirely new stadium right?
Posted on 12/21/18 at 5:42 pm to Muthsera
quote:
When coaches, players, and recruits know that you're just a guy with a recruiting machine doing all your work, they have a lot less respect for you as opposed to Saban, Meyer, etc.
Even Georgia fans started to recognize it this year when they struggled with a few teams who they clearly outclassed and eventually pulled away. If you go through the old Georgia game threads you can see a fissure, albeit tiny, in Kirby's armor.
quote:
He took it from 0-100 without proving his coaching bonafides first.
And this is where the scale at 100 is around Saban and Meyer (both multiple championship winning coaches in their own right). Kirby's batting 90% and will likely hit even higher than that on signing day unless he's smart and takes some three stars to at least pretend like it's all legit.
Those blue chip commits with zero crystal balls and no or one visit is the most damning to me. Someone said "well Saban does it" -- Saban's been accused of paying players since the beginning. It'll be interesting, though, because if one domino falls -- Pruitt or Kirby get in trouble, it'll topple the rest.
Posted on 12/21/18 at 6:16 pm to Muthsera
Y’all understand that Kirby took Alabama’s 5 year recruiting plan to Georgia and used it to his advantage.
From what I heard Bama has 3 phase approach to recruiting. They got a list of 4 and 5 stars that are listed as priority 1 and 4 and 5 stars listed at priority 2 and then high 3 stars as priority 1 and 2s. They have this plan and their targets set out as far as 8th graders.
He took all this info and targeted the 5 and 4 star priority 2s and said hey this is what Bama thinks about you. Your priority number 1 for us. Actually a great strategy.
He still paying em tho.
From what I heard Bama has 3 phase approach to recruiting. They got a list of 4 and 5 stars that are listed as priority 1 and 4 and 5 stars listed at priority 2 and then high 3 stars as priority 1 and 2s. They have this plan and their targets set out as far as 8th graders.
He took all this info and targeted the 5 and 4 star priority 2s and said hey this is what Bama thinks about you. Your priority number 1 for us. Actually a great strategy.
He still paying em tho.
Posted on 12/21/18 at 8:25 pm to StrawsDrawnAtRandom
This is what I believe, that of all the NCAA violations that have surfaced in recent years ( both football and basketball) they seem to have had a nexus from a former player on said team that for whatever reason has an ax to grind.
In other words the NCAA isn’t going to go out of their way without strong probable cause. The old where there’s smoke there must be fire just doesn’t cut it anymore.
In other words the NCAA isn’t going to go out of their way without strong probable cause. The old where there’s smoke there must be fire just doesn’t cut it anymore.
Posted on 12/21/18 at 9:49 pm to bengalbait
Bama signs a lot more 3 stars than folks realize. Many high draft choices come from 3 star recruits....but everyone is all a glitter about rankings.
Posted on 12/21/18 at 11:03 pm to bengalbait
quote:
This is what I believe, that of all the NCAA violations that have surfaced in recent years ( both football and basketball) they seem to have had a nexus from a former player on said team that for whatever reason has an ax to grind.
Exactly. I think there are two ways they can get busted:
First, Alabama and Georgia push each other to limits that have never been seen. We kind of saw it last year when Kirby beat Saban and this year Saban has gone out of his way to get the #1 class.
Second, a former player who wants to turn whistleblower and got the shaft from Kirby. Saban seems to have a great system to avoid that, but I've seen several players leave Georgia very unhappy.
Posted on 3/8/19 at 3:38 pm to StrawsDrawnAtRandom
Bump in light of current events.
Is there any chance this could boil over to football recruiting?
I sure hope so.
Is there any chance this could boil over to football recruiting?
I sure hope so.
Posted on 3/8/19 at 4:28 pm to bengalbait
If you're talking about Will Wade, yep, just as you said.
If you're talking about Carson Beck, yep, just like I said.
What's crazy is that even Florida players are alluding to bags.
https://twitter.com/_UnoZero/status/1102335620918194177
Gervon Dexter quickly comes to say: "They're not cheating, they're recruiting." I think a big reason why recruits don't blow the lid wide open is because they know almost all schools cheat and it far and wide helps players both rich and poor.
However, even jokingly you can see the frustration since those two (J. Fraziars and Dexter) were recruiting Beck. When players even start to "whisper" as a joke that it's happening, you know it's starting to fall apart.
They know what's going on in Athens, and it's only a matter of time before it goes under investigation.
If you're talking about Carson Beck, yep, just like I said.
What's crazy is that even Florida players are alluding to bags.
https://twitter.com/_UnoZero/status/1102335620918194177
Gervon Dexter quickly comes to say: "They're not cheating, they're recruiting." I think a big reason why recruits don't blow the lid wide open is because they know almost all schools cheat and it far and wide helps players both rich and poor.
However, even jokingly you can see the frustration since those two (J. Fraziars and Dexter) were recruiting Beck. When players even start to "whisper" as a joke that it's happening, you know it's starting to fall apart.
They know what's going on in Athens, and it's only a matter of time before it goes under investigation.
Posted on 3/9/19 at 8:43 am to StrawsDrawnAtRandom
Yes, they may not be up front, out loud condemning it due to the fact that they would become per sona non grata to any DI school for whistle blowing. In the end, they’re just kids with little common sense and large egos that spout off everything on their mind on social media. It will get interesting over the next year.
Posted on 3/11/19 at 2:03 pm to Muthsera
quote:
Kirby made the same mistake Freeze did. He took it from 0-100 without proving his coaching bonafides first.
I know I'm an outsider here but I had to comment on this. First, I totally DO understand your mindset that kirby didn't have a long track record as a HEAD coach before getting top recruiting classes. I get that and dont' think it's an odd thought to have. With that said, there is NO comparison in kirby and freeze. What freeze did was in a totally different stratosphere to kirby. Some thoughts:
-Freeze was a HS coach/girls bb coach that spent 3 years at podunk level football before going to OM, where he went 7-6 in his first year.
-That next class in 2013 jumped 40 spots from the previous year and included 4 5* and 4 guys that were tops at their position nationally.
-They got the #1 DL from GA, the #1 WR from outside chicago, and the #1 OT from FL. To go to ole miss. Tunsil was committed to UGA for damn near a year and a half, then when our coahces went to his house the week of NSD his family wouldn't barely even look at us and were even wearing OM gear during the in-home. Sorry but that's a little more than just a "change of heart". All of this does describe what you said, going 0-100.
-There are many differences with that and kirby. For starters although he was a new head coach, he was probably the most decorated and accomplished coordinator in college with a track record of national titles and an NFL stint to boot.
-UGA had always recruited well, to the tune of about a top ~10 class. Richt recruited as high as 3rd, with a bunch of 6-7s in there, but averaged around 10. Making the jump from 8-10 to 1 is usually decided by only a couple of high 4 or 5 stars. It's not that big of a discrepancy.
-UGA is a far easier and more natural place ot recruit to than ole miss. Hell even Donnan reeled in a class that some considered ot be #1 nationally (1998). To say that having a successful class at UGA automatically means shenangigans isn't quite accurate.
-Look at all of our highly ranked guys in that first full class of kirby's from 2017. Lecounte, Thomas, Fromm, Gibbs, Johnson, Beal, HOlloman....all guys from GA. The only real head scrathcer IMO was isaiah wilson from NY, but pittman is the best OL coach in the business that has been reeling in studs his whole career.
-The 2018 class that was #1 was coming off a national title appearance and SEC title, those recruit for themselves. And again, many of those high profile guys (fields, salyer, anderson, campbell, cox, walker, cook) came from GA and FL where we usually recruit fairly well.
I say all that not to say we are squeaky clean, beucase we aren't. Nobody is that's at this high a level. I just highly disagree with the fact that kirby is following in freeze's footsteps. There is no comparison to what freeze was doing.
Posted on 3/11/19 at 2:13 pm to WG_Dawg
I understand defending your HC here, but your number one recruit was showing off his new wheels on IG that just magically appeared in the dead of night with the keys already in it
Cmon man
Cmon man
Posted on 3/11/19 at 2:49 pm to WG_Dawg
Sorry, not buying Blue Chip surprises every other week.
Would you honestly be that shocked if it came to light, say, tomorrow, that Georgia was being investigated with recruiting violations?
I'm not saying it'll happen, I'm saying: Would your jaw be on the ground? Would you say to your friends: "I CANNOT believe it!" with indignation?
Would you honestly be that shocked if it came to light, say, tomorrow, that Georgia was being investigated with recruiting violations?
I'm not saying it'll happen, I'm saying: Would your jaw be on the ground? Would you say to your friends: "I CANNOT believe it!" with indignation?
Posted on 3/12/19 at 8:57 am to StrawsDrawnAtRandom
quote:
Would you honestly be that shocked if it came to light, say, tomorrow, that Georgia was being investigated with recruiting violations? Would your jaw be on the ground? Would you say to your friends: "I CANNOT believe it!" with indignation?
No, nor would I be surprised at anyone. I said earlier
quote:
not to say we are squeaky clean, beucase we aren't. Nobody is that's at this high a level
Pretty much every school in the top 25 is cheating in some capacity to some degree. I don't think UGA is doing anything differently than bama/auburn/clemson/OSU/ut/etc. I'm sure we're cheating in some way, just like I'm sure pretty much everyone else is too. But my point was that "0-100" comment. Freeze went from a hard stop to hitting the nitrous button, everyone in the world is going to know something is up when you start doing what ole miss was doing. That's a little different, IMO, than a traditional power school like uga or bama getting a 5* kid to go there.
Posted on 3/12/19 at 2:05 pm to WG_Dawg
Which headline would be more surprising?
Florida caught making offers to players.
Georgia caught making offers to players.
Florida caught making offers to players.
Georgia caught making offers to players.
Posted on 3/12/19 at 2:45 pm to bigDgator
quote:
Which headline would be more surprising?
Florida caught making offers to players.
Georgia caught making offers to players.
neither would be surprising in the least. You could insert about 50 teams in that headline and I wouldn't be surprised.
Posted on 3/12/19 at 4:50 pm to WG_Dawg
If you think it's perfectly normal for an HC in his second year to have the second best class of all time (only behind Florida's 2010 class, which was coming off of two National Championships and a Sugar Bowl 13 - 1 season) then you can be sold anything.
Where on Earth have you seen players with an offer commit three days later after one visit and zero official visits? Why does it seem to happen almost all the time at Georgia?
Florida getting caught cheating would absolutely blow my mind. I have no doubt we're doing something, but there are tiers to this game and it's obvious that Georgia is doing a lot more than other teams.
Of course you think "Well Athens is fun woof woof, who wouldn't like this place?" It's not a secret that every Saban coach recently seems to have a lot of luck on the recruiting trail except...
Oh that's right.
One Jim McElwain.
Bizarre, why is he the only one? It...no, it can't be.
Is it the same reason that Florida is the only National Championship Basketball team not to be investigated by the FBI/NCAA?
(Whisper) We're a clean program.
Where on Earth have you seen players with an offer commit three days later after one visit and zero official visits? Why does it seem to happen almost all the time at Georgia?
Florida getting caught cheating would absolutely blow my mind. I have no doubt we're doing something, but there are tiers to this game and it's obvious that Georgia is doing a lot more than other teams.
Of course you think "Well Athens is fun woof woof, who wouldn't like this place?" It's not a secret that every Saban coach recently seems to have a lot of luck on the recruiting trail except...
Oh that's right.
One Jim McElwain.
Bizarre, why is he the only one? It...no, it can't be.
Is it the same reason that Florida is the only National Championship Basketball team not to be investigated by the FBI/NCAA?
(Whisper) We're a clean program.
Posted on 3/16/19 at 12:58 pm to bengalbait
Yes we don't play that game. Bama pays...and they pay a lot. Georgia clearly does too and it's just plain stupid to claim otherwise.
I'd suspect Auburn to compete with Bama. LSU who knows...I feel Ed O is a straight up guy honestly.
I'd suspect Auburn to compete with Bama. LSU who knows...I feel Ed O is a straight up guy honestly.
Posted on 3/16/19 at 12:59 pm to WG_Dawg
Florida players drive scooters...not brand new cars
Since 2010 at least.
Ronald Powell had a pretty nice car from what I remember hearing.
Since 2010 at least.
Ronald Powell had a pretty nice car from what I remember hearing.
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