Shawn Elliott ...

Good ... that's excellent. I needed something to defend him with against a couple of buddies of mine down in Charleston.

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The fact that our oline got their shite pushed in all game long in the citadel game

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? Your recollection of that game and mine are different. We lost that game b/c we couldn't stop their run. Our OL allowed 0 sacks that game and 5 TFL's, but 4of5 were b/c we had inept RB's last year who stalled behind the LOS. The OL wasn't the problem that game, we had a shite DL that couldn't stop the run and we were starting a walk-on QB.

I like Elliott's fire and love for the school. I think he gives us everything he's got, but he's not a great teacher nor is he a great evaluator/recruiter.

Muschamp had to keep someone off the staff for continuity, and of the group of clowns we had, he was the best option. If he improves, he may be able to hang on here, but I expect he'll be gone by the end of the 2017 season.

It's really surprising he hasn't been more successful. He has state ties, passion and energy, the support of the players, and yet his results have been rather disappointing. He's good for signing one big name a year for the line, and 2 to 3 projects. His lines have been okay, but keep in mind they've had the benefit of having Lattimore, Shaw, and Davis to make them appear better than they actually have been. They have never been the strength of the team, which is hard to understand given the continuity of the program since he's been here until this year.

I really would like to see him succeed, and maybe with a better recruiting effort over the previous staff he will get enough good recruits to prove he's a good coach.

As for the Citadel game, that's not on Elliott. Perry Orth is the reason we lost that game. I hate that the good feeling story and his likeable personality make people miss the fact Orth may be the least talented quarterback to take the field here. And that's saying a lot.

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I was a little disappointed but I think they were setting us up for what's coming this Sunday night.

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Probably this.

I'm confused about why people don't think Elliott is doing a good job. SC has never been known as a OL Powerhouse, but we've performed well in that aspect under Elliott and our results are much better than years' past. I'll try to just look at the stats/numbers below and avoid too much spin.

ELLIOTT AND DEVELOPING NFL TALENT
Elliott has had 4 OL Drafted in the past 4 Drafts. That's about as many OL that have been drafted form SC from 1992-2011 (almost the previous 20 years.)
https://www.drafthistory.com/index.php/colleges/s

Of those guys who were drafted while Elliott was OL Coach; Robinson was a 2*/3*, Rok Watkins was a 2*/3*, TJ Johnson was a 3*, and AJ Cann was a 4*. Brandon Shell was a 4* and is projected to be an NFL draft pick this year. Elliott will have had 5 OL drafted in the past 5 Drafts. I think that it's valid to say that he has a track record for developing NFL level talent.

If you want to compare that to some other schools in the conference/region; during the same timeframe (2012-2015 NFL Drafts) this is how many OL these teams had drafted:
- SC (us) 4
- clemson 2
- UGA 3
- Ga Tech 1
- Florida 5
- unc 4
- NC State 0
- Va Tech 2
- UVA 2
- Maryland
- tennessee 3
- Vandy 2
- Missou 2
- Kentucky 1
- Auburn 2
- Bama 6
- LSU 1 (not counting the Cowboys guy who went Supp Draft.)
- Ole Miss 1
- Miss St - 1
- aTm 4
- Penn St 3
- L'ville 2

So Elliott is 3rd in the SEC for players going to the NFL since the 2011 Draft. Out of the 22 SEC or Regional schools we recruit against, he's still 3rd.
https://www.drafthistory.com/index.php/colleges/


ELLIOTT THE RECRUITER
Currently, Shawn Elliott is ranked #25 nationally, for the 2017 class, as a recruiter by 247, for ALL D1 Coaches. He's #8 in the SEC, and #1 for SEC OL Coaches. I don't think it's spin to say, that's impressive. The cycle is in the early stages, but everyone is held to the same standard, and he's leading the pack.
https://247sports.com/Coach/Shawn-Elliott-6

For 2016's class, Elliot was #27 in the SEC (out of 117) and #6 for OL Coaches.
https://247sports.com/Season/2016-Football/CompositeCoachRankings?Conference=SEC

For 2015's class, Elliott was #74 in the SEC (out of 117) and was #10 for OL Coaches. This was the class where we lost three 4* OL recruits b/c of '2 to 3 years' comment. However, Clark and Palmer ended up being busts anyways for the schools they chose.
https://247sports.com/Season/2015-Football/CompositeCoachRankings?Conference=SEC

For 2014's class, Elliott was #26 in the SEC (out of 117) and was #3 for OL Coaches.
https://247sports.com/Season/2014-Football/CompositeCoachRankings?Conference=SEC

For the 2013 class, Elliott was #23 in the SEC (out of 117) and was #2 for OL Coaches
https://247sports.com/Season/2013-Football/CompositeCoachRankings?Conference=SEC

So in the most recent 5 recruiting cycles (2013-2017,) he's avg'ing #31 in the SEC (out of 117 coaches) and the #4 OL Coach for recruiting, using the 247 ranking data.
( and I'm not even counting 2011 when he was #22 in the SEC and the #2 OL Coach.)

So he is not the best OL Coach in the SEC in regards to recruiting, but he's well above average. and in the Top30% of all SEC Position Coaches.


ELLIOTT'S ON THE FIELD PERFORMANCE (OL STATS)
There are a lot of ways measure an OL's effectiveness, and there isn't a universally excepted perfect measurement, but one of the best sites out there for measuring OL Success is Football Oustiders and their measurements. I just wished they had more years than the past 2 in the archive.
https://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/ncaaol

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Run-blocking stats
Adjusted Line Yards: One of only two opponent-adjusted numbers on the page, this aligns with the ALY figure FO tracks for the NFL and is presented on a scale in which 100.0 is perfectly average, above 100 is good, below 100 is bad.
Standard Downs Line Yards per Carry: The raw, unadjusted per-carry line yardage for a team on standard downs (first down, second-and-7 or fewer, third-and-4 or fewer, fourth-and-4 or fewer).
Passing Downs Line Yards per Carry: The same unadjusted averages for rushing on passing downs.
Opportunity Rate: The percentage of carries (when five yards are available) that gain at least five yards, i.e. the percentage of carries in which the line does its job, so to speak.
Power Success Rate: This is the same as on the pro side -- percentage of runs on third or fourth down, two yards or less to go, that achieved a first down or touchdown.
Stuff Rate: Same as STUFFED on the pro side -- percentage of carries by running backs that are stopped at or before the line of scrimmage.

Pass-blocking stats
Adjusted Sack Rate: An opponent-adjusted version of a team's sack rate -- sacks divided by (sacks plus passes), presented on a scale in which 100 is perfectly average, above 100 is good, below 100 is bad.
Standard Downs Sack Rate: Unadjusted sack rate for standard downs pass attempts.
Passing Downs Sack Rate: Unadjusted sack rate for passing downs pass attempts.

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Below are SC's national rankings the past 2 seasons under Elliott (our of 128 D1 Schools.)

SC 2015 Rankings
Adj. LY - 61st
Std. Downs Line Yards - 78th
Pass. Downs Line Yards - 39th
Opp. Rate - 89th
Power Success Rate - 123rd
Adj Sack Rate - 68th
Std. Downs Sack Rate- 70th
Pass. Downs Sack Rate - 90th

SC 2014 Rankings
Adj. LY - 23rd
Std. Downs Line Yards - 45th
Pass. Downs Line Yards - 76th
Opp. Rate - 35th
Power Success Rate - 35th
Stuff Rate - 72nd
Adj Sack Rate - 40th
Std. Downs Sack Rate - 50th (I honestly fault Dylan more than the OL for this.)
Pass. Downs Sack Rate -36th

I said earlier in this thread that the 2013 or 2014 OL's were the best OL's we've had in the Spurrier era, and I still stand by that. I would expect the 2013 OL stat rankings to be slightly +/- the 2014 OL stat rankings. 2012's and 2011's stats would also be better than 2015's. I am speculating here, b/c I don't have the 2013, 2012, or 2011 data: but I bet what we would see is that SC has been in the Top33% (or avg's out to that percentile range) for most of these national OL Stat rankings since 2011.
So our performance has not been nationally elite, or probably even elite (Top3) for the SEC. HOWEVER, we've been doing above avg on the OL for the D1 level, and aren't far off from being a Top 25 OL consistently.

25 rushes for 72 yards against a d2 football program is an utter shite show if you ask me. We couldnt convert on 3rd and short. We couldnt stay on the field. Thats on the oline. (And running backs) And i recall no running room. Those are bad stats against an SEC foe. This was the fricking citadel. I am getting disgusted all over again just thinking about it.

We knew our d was absolute shite, the o needed to pick them up. We scored 20 points? Thats not enough with a garbage d.

Our qb actually went 28 of 43 for 367 1 td and 0 picks. Thats not bad.

Our kids go to the same school, he is a good fella but this was a question about his offensive lines, and i have not been impressed.

And mother frick that call on the p cooper game winning td by the officials still cheeses me off. Grrrrrrr.

I appreciate you taking the time to post all of those stats, and I certainly don't mean to say he's not pretty good at his job, but from the eye test of sitting in the stands here are my issues.

While it may be partly the zone blocking scheme he uses, since he has been here we seem to struggle to pick up 3rd and 4th and 1. And that's with some serious talent in the backfield the past several years. Granted, play calling has been an issue here as well, but we get blown up way too often in that situation. An example would be Georgia two years ago. We needed literally 2 inches to ice the game, and it took us two plays to get 2 inches, and I'm not honestly sure the ref didn't give us those 2 inches.

Also while you can take the fact he's going to have 5 players drafted in 5 years, I can take that and say how can you have five draft picks on your line and not have a better line? Would seem to indicate we should have had some amazing lines that pounded teams into submission, but that has hardly been the case. Perfect example was the 2013 Tennessee game. We needed 1 first down in the last 10 minutes of the game to win, and we couldn't run for a single first down. Not one. That's on the line.

Another issue is the fact we seem to have more random blown assignments than anyone. I don't see other teams completely whiffing or not even blocking a pass rusher very often, but it seems to happen to us about once a drive. We've just never seemed to have a cohesive unit that works as one.

I really like Elliott. I love the fact he loves the University and wants to be here. I just want his lines to be more consistent and a strength of the team occasionally. That and we do reach too soon for project players when we still have better options on our board.

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It was about what I expected, not counting the final scene that I did not see coming. Given they ended with so many mini cliffhangers last year, I knew they had to pretty much touch base on every one of those storylines, which they did. It didn't leave a lot of time or room to do much else, though I was disappointed it was about 10 minutes short of an hour for the episode. It wasn't an exceptional or memorable episode, but it was still pretty good. I think the season will start in earnest this week.

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Same here ... and yeah, it ticked me off too that it took them ten minutes past the top of the hour to even get the episode started, and then they finished five minutes early ... so it was basically a fluff episode that lasted about 45 minutes.

But, like you, I expect it to really get to rolling this coming Sunday.

I read the books and knew there had been subtle hints about the red woman and her actual age being suggested in the series for a couple of years ... but in the scene last season when she was in the bathtub without her necklace I thought they may have written her age out of the series ... but then they made it happen Sunday night, so I get it.

I'm just hoping the reference to Oathkeeper means that Lady Stoneheart is about to make an appearance.

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I appreciate you taking the time to post all of those stats, and I certainly don't mean to say he's not pretty good at his job, but from the eye test of sitting in the stands here are my issues.

While it may be partly the zone blocking scheme he uses, since he has been here we seem to struggle to pick up 3rd and 4th and 1. And that's with some serious talent in the backfield the past several years. Granted, play calling has been an issue here as well, but we get blown up way too often in that situation. An example would be Georgia two years ago. We needed literally 2 inches to ice the game, and it took us two plays to get 2 inches, and I'm not honestly sure the ref didn't give us those 2 inches.

Also while you can take the fact he's going to have 5 players drafted in 5 years, I can take that and say how can you have five draft picks on your line and not have a better line? Would seem to indicate we should have had some amazing lines that pounded teams into submission, but that has hardly been the case. Perfect example was the 2013 Tennessee game. We needed 1 first down in the last 10 minutes of the game to win, and we couldn't run for a single first down. Not one. That's on the line.

Another issue is the fact we seem to have more random blown assignments than anyone. I don't see other teams completely whiffing or not even blocking a pass rusher very often, but it seems to happen to us about once a drive. We've just never seemed to have a cohesive unit that works as one.

I really like Elliott. I love the fact he loves the University and wants to be here. I just want his lines to be more consistent and a strength of the team occasionally. That and we do reach too soon for project players when we still have better options on our board.

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Shawn Elliott blamed a lot of his issues, or rather his players' issues, on Joe Con ... and maybe he was right. We'll see what Dillman can do to get them ready in the weight room.

I've thought, at times, that our OLine was not as physical as it should have been ... able to just line up and blast people off the ball, which is something you are alluding to as well.

The offensive line class two classes ago was pretty good ... they may pan out to be his best since he's been here. But other than that our OLine classes have not be highly ranked. Guge, under Holtz, had a couple of Top Ten ranked OLine classes, one of them may have been Top Five.

Back in the day, under Jim Carlen, we had some really dominant OLines ... but Coach Carlen was an offensive line coach from way back and OLinemen used to wanna come play for him.

I know this ... the age old saying that to compete in the SEC it all starts in the trenches is very true. We should absolute demand that our OLine and DLine are above average and perform up to standards ... and we can never pin it on the players. The finger has always got to be pointed at the coaches because they are the ones that recruit the players they want. It's up to them to develop the talent and put a good product on the field.

ETA: I don't know how many times our OLine was called for false starts at the worst times last year ... and that has got to stop.