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re: Was the Amazon Rainforest Man-Made??

Posted on 1/17/18 at 12:51 am to
Posted by BoarEd
The Hills
Member since Oct 2015
38862 posts
Posted on 1/17/18 at 12:51 am to
"In 2013, community ecologist Hans ter Steege and colleagues were taking inventory of the vast diversity of the Amazon’s trees. The team sampled 1,170 scattered plots far from modern human inhabitants to identify more than 16,000 different species among those 390 billion individual plants. Then they noticed something odd: Despite that broad diversity, over half of the total trees were made up of just over 1 percent (227) of the species."

LINK /

Since you just dismissed the article in the OP I figured I'd post this one from the Smithsonian.

More than half the total number of trees in the Amazon River Basin come from just 1% of the total number of species.

In other words, the entire forest was domesticated. Like a garden. And they amended the soil across the entire thing.

50,000,000 people lived there.

Posted by Kentucker
Cincinnati, KY
Member since Apr 2013
19351 posts
Posted on 1/17/18 at 1:14 am to
Lord have mercy.

quote:

the general idea that humans have had a major impact on the Amazon rainforest for thousands of years, adapting its ecology to their needs, has been around for a few decades,


This effect was brought about by the same methods used by every other agrarian society on earth, slash and burn. Its hardly an eyebrow raiser that humans living in a forest for as long as 13,000 years would have an effect upon it.

Meso Americans are fully modern humans with the same intelligence as any other groups. They made the most use of the resources they had.

However, they did not have the resources to "build up" the soil, especially over such a vast expanse of land. They also did not have the knowledge to rotate crops to maintain fertility of the land.

So, they employed the slash and burn method. That means to cut down and burn an area and plant the crops you need. Then, when the fertile soil of one area is depleted, it's abandoned for another area and the process repeats. The depleted area sits fallow until nature restores it. This is certainly not the definition of gardening.

quote:

More than half the total number of trees in the Amazon River Basin come from just 1% of the total number of species.

In other words, the entire forest was domesticated.



The first statement is not proof of the second statement.

quote:

50,000,000 people lived there.


OMG, no.

On that note I'm turning in but I've enjoyed our repartee.
Posted by kywildcatfanone
Wildcat Country!
Member since Oct 2012
119025 posts
Posted on 1/17/18 at 6:02 am to
quote:

Was the Amazon Rainforest Man-Made??


No, but the rainforest cafe was. Does that help you?
Posted by Jazzbo Depew
Bug Tussle
Member since Dec 2017
1765 posts
Posted on 1/17/18 at 10:02 am to
I'm betting that cave art can tie all this together.



Posted by BoarEd
The Hills
Member since Oct 2015
38862 posts
Posted on 1/17/18 at 10:15 am to
quote:

The first statement is not proof of the second statement.


It put the likelihood of the entire thing being domesticated greater than it not being so. That's according to the people who conducted the survey and carefully cateloged damn near every single tree in the rainforest.

And yeah, they built the soil up. Main soil amendment used was biochar. They also used bonemeal.

You can say no all you like, but you're wrong.
Posted by Arksulli
Fayetteville
Member since Aug 2014
25182 posts
Posted on 1/17/18 at 10:26 am to
quote:

And yet, that's what it appears to be.




Unfortunately, the "Garden of Eden" has pretty well been established for a long time. That particular story refers to fertile crescent of the Middle East in modern Iraq where the Tigris and Euphrates rivers meet.

As hard as it is to believe today that area of Iraq used to be a bountiful agricultural center that allowed several ancient empires to flourish.

Tens of thousands of years of intensive farming have slowly lowered the fertility of the soil and when the Mongols shattered the Abbasid Caliphate they also did an impressive job of wrecking the intricate system of irrigation that had made Baghdad the center of the Muslim world.

Add in some impressively lousy land management, particularly when Saddam Hussein was in power, and you get the desertification of Iraq.

Posted by BoarEd
The Hills
Member since Oct 2015
38862 posts
Posted on 1/17/18 at 10:35 am to
Perhaps. But again, you are using the Bible as your source of information with zero evidence to support it. In fact, the area you propose doesn't even match the biblical description.

ETA: Here is what John Calvin had to say about the location of Eden:

"Moses says that one river flowed to water the garden, which afterwards would divide itself into four heads. It is sufficiently agreed among all, that two of these heads are the Euphrates and the Tigris; for no one disputes that . . . (Hiddekel) is the Tigris. But there is a great controversy respecting the other two. Many think, that Pison and Gihon are the Ganges and the Nile; the error, however, of these men is abundantly refuted by the distance of the positions of these rivers. Persons are not wanting who fly across even to the Danube; as if indeed the habitation of one man stretched itself from the most remote part of Asia to the extremity of Europe. But since many other celebrated rivers flow by the region of which we are speaking, there is greater probability in the opinion of those who believe that two of these rivers are pointed out, although their names are now obsolete. Be this as it may, the difficulty is not yet solved. For Moses divides the one river which flowed by the garden into four heads. Yet it appears, that the fountains of the Euphrates and the Tigris were far distant from each other."
This post was edited on 1/17/18 at 10:45 am
Posted by Pavoloco83
Acworth Ga. too many damn dawgs
Member since Nov 2013
15347 posts
Posted on 1/17/18 at 12:28 pm to
You obviously were not involved in any Monteg threads...
Posted by Kentucker
Cincinnati, KY
Member since Apr 2013
19351 posts
Posted on 1/17/18 at 6:31 pm to
quote:

carefully cateloged damn near every single tree in the rainforest.


Stahp! Even 21st century technology isn't capable of cataloging 390 billion trees. Your overstatements for effect are outrageous.
Posted by real turf fan
East Tennessee
Member since Dec 2016
8610 posts
Posted on 1/18/18 at 10:30 am to
You might want to look up some scientific articles about the Pleistocene forests in South America. At least one proposed that the forests had shrunk and were reduced to two or three refugia. That would have left a large amount of grasslands that would have been easier to move into and subject to agricultural techniques.
Posted by BoarEd
The Hills
Member since Oct 2015
38862 posts
Posted on 1/18/18 at 10:55 am to
That's essentially what I'm saying...
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