quote:
And you're one of those that believes ALL docs are going against their Hippocratic oath for money (that they personally never see). It's not an all-or-nothing proposition, but the vast majority are simply not doing this.

My wife has been a nurse for nearly 25 years and is in management at Kennestone Hospital, working there for about 22 years.

The Doctors are awesome, but the administration are corporatist money-grubbing lying and cheating fricks that play politics and care only about profit.

And if you don't think they've told the doctors to declare someone a COVID death if they tested positive for COVID, or else, and those doctors aren't abiding, then like I said, you're a naive buffoon.

And the Hippocratic Oath says to do no harm to anyone. Declaring someone a COVID death that tests positive, even if they had n+1 other ailments that likely caused the death, isn't breaking that oath. So GTFO with that nonsense.

And as explained, there is nothing but ambiguity with this virus. The doctors have no clue if COVID was THE CAUSE in cases of people with underlying circumstances or if it was something else. So for them to make the declaration, they aren't lying, they just aren't making a decision based on 100% certainty.

And that's an indisputable fact. If you're going to sit here and demand to me that some 400 lb fat frick who's already had 2 double bypass surgeries and has 300 cholesterol absolutely positively 100% died from COVID and not from his 3rd heart-attack, just because a doctor said so, then frick you and frick the bullshite horse you road in on, because you're an idiot and suck at life.

quote:
You are literally regurgitating about 90% of the Facebook memes and rumors in your posts, but you do you.

Right, me investigating and finding the NY State Health Department flu report registry, and posting it with a page long analysis is a goddamn Facebook meme.

Damn I can't stand ignorant pricks like you. Seriously, eat shite.

quote:
Medicine, by and large, is guesswork. Simple process of elimination in most cases. And you are wrong on this. The people dying didn't go to the hospital because they were 95, or because they were fat, or because they had liver disease or anything else. The ones presenting to hospitals are coming and being admitted there because of COVID symptoms, typically involving low O2 sats as a result of difficulty breathing. Whatever conditions they had before that are absolutely worsened by the effect of the virus and things they could have lived with for decades with ongoing treatment could kill them in days.

No shite it's "guesswork".

It's astounding how you just said what I said, that there's nothing definite or fact, that it's guesswork, and then you go on to call me wrong and act like it isn't fricking guesswork.

Again, my wife is a nurse. I have all the stories about who's coming in to her hospital for treatment. Your generalization that ALL of them are the same is simply not true.

And, we're not even talking about just hospitals. I clearly said municipalities, too. People are dying in nursing homes, hospice, on the streets in cardboard boxes, simply found in their homes after some times... and the county/city/state is forced to handle the body. And there absolutely are instances of those people being counted as COVID deaths simply because they test positive posthumously.

You do realize that millions of people die every year and it doesn't happen in a hospital, right?

quote:
This isn't rocket science.

No shite. And apparently you don't care about the science of it.

If you did, you would easily understand that if millions of people have had COVID, but were completely asymptomatic and unaffected by it, that without question SOME of the people that have died while testing positive were also assuredly asymptomatic and unaffected by it.

There is no fricking way that you can sit here and say it's 100% fact that every one of those 80,000 was a legit COVID death. No way.

And yet, you're demanding that they all are, and insulting and impugning me with generalizations and baseless claims of bias and lack of integrity.

frick... OFF.

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Posted by deeprig9

Unincorporated Ozora, Georgia

Member since Sep 2012

64396 posts

Posted on 5/14/20 at 1:18 pm to BeefDawg

I'm glad some of yall still have the energy to argue with these people.

0 ...

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Posted by S1C EM

Athens, GA

Member since Nov 2007

11585 posts

Posted on 5/14/20 at 2:05 pm to BeefDawg

quote:
My wife has been a nurse for nearly 25 years and is in management at Kennestone Hospital, working there for about 22 years.

The Doctors are awesome, but the administration are corporatist money-grubbing lying and cheating fricks that play politics and care only about profit.

My wife is a nurse as well and has been for 14 years herself. I do not, at all, dispute what you say about the hospital administrators. You are absolutely correct on that point and it's the main reason that so many hospitals found their clinical staff without the necessary PPE early on.

quote:
And if you don't think they've told the doctors to declare someone a COVID death if they tested positive for COVID, or else, and those doctors aren't abiding, then like I said, you're a naive buffoon.

While I wouldn't at all be surprised if they did, it would be foolish to believe that every doctor just nodded their head and agreed to it. There are many on record that have gone out of their way to dispel this idea.

quote:
And the Hippocratic Oath says to do no harm to anyone. Declaring someone a COVID death that tests positive, even if they had n+1 other ailments that likely caused the death, isn't breaking that oath. So GTFO with that nonsense.

So you see no harm in lying to patients or the general public and creating mass hysteria if there's genuinely nothing to be concerned about?

quote:
And as explained, there is nothing but ambiguity with this virus. The doctors have no clue if COVID was THE CAUSE in cases of people with underlying circumstances or if it was something else. So for them to make the declaration, they aren't lying, they just aren't making a decision based on 100% certainty.

And that's an indisputable fact. If you're going to sit here and demand to me that some 400 lb fat frick who's already had 2 double bypass surgeries and has 300 cholesterol absolutely positively 100% died from COVID and not from his 3rd heart-attack, just because a doctor said so, then frick you and frick the bullshite horse you road in on, because you're an idiot and suck at life

You're splitting hairs. No doctor makes decisions on 100% certainty and I have to think you know this. If a person with a heart condition contracts COVID and passes from a heart attack that is brought on by the combination of high fever and breathing difficulty DIRECTLY CAUSED by COVID infection, you see no need for COVID to be included as a contributing factor in their death? You are WAY oversimplifying.

quote:
Right, me investigating and finding the NY State Health Department flu report registry, and posting it with a page long analysis is a goddamn Facebook meme.

Damn I can't stand ignorant pricks like you. Seriously, eat shite.

I haven't seen your post as I have no intention of sifting through pages upon pages of mostly useless drivel to find it. If you want to link it, I'm happy to oblige you.

quote:
No shite it's "guesswork".

It's astounding how you just said what I said, that there's nothing definite or fact, that it's guesswork, and then you go on to call me wrong and act like it isn't fricking guesswork.

You need to stay on-point. I never said anything wasn't guesswork. In fact, again, I literally said much of medicine is exactly that. And connecting COVID to these deaths is an educated guess made by the doctors involved in patient care. You have no way to definitively prove them right or wrong, but you are attempting to definitely say that they are lying to increase the count. So make up your mind.

quote:
Again, my wife is a nurse. I have all the stories about who's coming in to her hospital for treatment. Your generalization that ALL of them are the same is simply not true.

I have the same line in to what's going on that you do, so you can take that nonsense elsewhere. I have never said that any case was the same as another. It goes without saying that they are not. You're generalizing that pretty much every death is happening as a result of something else and being classified as COVID. Are you even listening to yourself? What does a person have to die of for YOU to be convinced that COVID was the culprit? Enlighten me. Or ask your wife.

quote:
And, we're not even talking about just hospitals. I clearly said municipalities, too. People are dying in nursing homes, hospice, on the streets in cardboard boxes, simply found in their homes after some times... and the county/city/state is forced to handle the body. And there absolutely are instances of those people being counted as COVID deaths simply because they test positive posthumously.

You do realize that millions of people die every year and it doesn't happen in a hospital, right?

Sure there are. Are they the bulk of 80k dead? Is it completely unreasonable, again, to determine that COVID played a role in their death? Should it just be ignored and swept under the rug? How would YOU handle it.

quote:
No shite. And apparently you don't care about the science of it.

If you did, you would easily understand that if millions of people have had COVID, but were completely asymptomatic and unaffected by it, that without question SOME of the people that have died while testing positive were also assuredly asymptomatic and unaffected by it.

No one ever said that SOME don't die of other causes.
You've simply implied that it's happening on some astronomical scale and that we should not believe the 80k number is even close to accurate. Asymptomatic individuals typically do present symptoms, eventually. They are often only asymptomatic at the time of testing. Consider people in the same household of a COVID-positive family member. They all get tested, too, many before they have any symptoms. They may be positive, but will be listed as asymptomatic. That doesn't mean they stay that way.

quote:
There is no fricking way that you can sit here and say it's 100% fact that every one of those 80,000 was a legit COVID death. No way.

I haven't. I've said that if they had COVID and passed, it isn't unreasonable to count them based on what we know about its impact on various systems of the body. Nor can you say that most of them should not be counted. Again, this isn't all-or-nothing. There are exceptions and examples that go against the norm and that is to be expected.

quote:
And yet, you're demanding that they all are, and insulting and impugning me with generalizations and baseless claims of bias and lack of integrity.

I have demanded nothing. And how have I insulted you, exactly? Compare our posts and then let me know who's doing the insulting. You certainly do have a bias. I'm not sure how you can argue against that.