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Maybe. When the government subsidizes something, you get more of it. That's why farmers grow so much corn. If the government subsidized the oil and gas industries, oil and gas prices would be lower, but enough to make our "dependence" on foreign oil much, much smaller? I'm skeptical. The Saudis have flooded the international oil market with cheap oil for the last few years. That did far more to slow down domestic oil production (particularly shale) than anything Obama ever did.

I mean, they didn't really cut production and let the global oil glut happen. And that lowered prices because US production was so high. The US "flooded" the global market with our production lowering the prices to what they are at now, the Saudis stayed pretty constant.

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As for the gas industry, I don't like fracking. I'm not an environmentalist, but I'd kill anyone who fracked land near enough to me to cause any problems. And if I feel that way about my land, I assume most other people feel that way about their land. If you want to frack, find places that aren't anywhere near peoples' homes, then I couldn't care less. If you bribe politicians to get permission to frack near my land despite my objections, then I won't just kill you, I'll kill your entire family.

Most fracing happens well outside of people's home, and it's perfectly safe. Fracing has been happening for 70 years, and people have survived. I think oil companies need to be liable for the consequences of cementing wells poorly, and poor disposal wells, but the science behind fracing is very safe, has happened for years in the middle of cities and near water supplies, and nothing has happened. I don't think you should be able to ban fracing because you have an irrational fear of it.

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A petroleum engineer? Now your perspective makes more sense. It's a shame you entered an industry that's in decline. I'm an electrical engineer (with a MS in Power) who figured it wouldn't be a good idea to pigeonhole himself. I've got experience working with solar, wind, coal, and gas (no nuclear, unfortunately). It's nice to not feel the need to lobby for government subsidies to keep the industry I work in from dying.

The effective tax rates on oil and gas companies are some of the highest in our country. Oil and gas companies don't need "subsidies", and most "subsidies" they do get are nothing like corn subsidies. I know that is an example you mentioned earlier and it's a completely inapplicable analogy. It's the most traded commodity in the world, it doesn't need any help in order not to die. At least not now. Most people are uneducated on the subject, so don't feel bad, but start here: https://www.forbes.com/sites/energysource/2012/04/25/the-surprising-reason-that-oil-subsidies-persist-even-liberals-love-them/#2d241a6f1e86

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Posted by Papplesbeast

St. Louis

Member since Dec 2014

826 posts

Posted on 1/12/17 at 5:20 pm to TeLeFaWx

quote:
I mean, they didn't really cut production and let the global oil glut happen. And that lowered prices because US production was so high. The US "flooded" the global market with our production lowering the prices to what they are at now, the Saudis stayed pretty constant.

Saudi oil production by year:
2009 8,250,000
2010 8,900,000
2011 9,458,000
2012 9,832,000
2013 9,693,000
2014 9,735,300
2015 10,045,600
2016 10,625,000

That's a 29% increase (between 2009 and 2016) for the nation that produces the most oil on the planet. That increase is greater in magnitude than the entire production of any nation outside the top 10 oil producers. And you think that's "pretty constant"? Okay.

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Most fracing happens well outside of people's home, and it's perfectly safe. Fracing has been happening for 70 years, and people have survived. I think oil companies need to be liable for the consequences of cementing wells poorly, and poor disposal wells, but the science behind fracing is very safe, has happened for years in the middle of cities and near water supplies, and nothing has happened. I don't think you should be able to ban fracing because you have an irrational fear of it.

It's perfectly safe? Nothing is perfectly safe. If I have an irrational fear anything, it's not fracking. It's that I'll get screwed over by a corporate or government entity far more powerful than me. That may happen through fracking or it could be something else. If a company causes damage by fracking near my land, the probability that I would be fairly compensated is minuscule. If I were to be compensated, it would almost certainly be for less than the damage I actually suffered, and it would take me years, if not decades, to receive that compensation.

quote:
The effective tax rates on oil and gas companies are some of the highest in our country. Oil and gas companies don't need "subsidies", and most "subsidies" they do get are nothing like corn subsidies. I know that is an example you mentioned earlier and it's a completely inapplicable analogy. It's the most traded commodity in the world, it doesn't need any help in order not to die. At least not now. Most people are uneducated on the subject, so don't feel bad, but start here:

I guess they didn't teach reading comprehension at the school where you got your engineering degree. I didn't say oil is subsidized like corn. Corn is an example of a government subsidy increasing the supply of a good. I actually didn't say oil is subsidized at all. You want oil to be subsidized. You call it "pro-oil", I call it crony capitalism. If you want policies you believe are unfair to the oil industry to be changed, but not favoritism or cronyism, then you should say you want the government to be "oil-neutral", not "pro-oil".

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