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re: *Super Dee Duper Official X's and O's discussion of LSU vs Alabama Thread*

Posted on 11/3/16 at 8:01 am to
Posted by Sun God
Member since Jul 2009
45421 posts
Posted on 11/3/16 at 8:01 am to
quote:

Gehrig Deiter has the 2nd highest grade in the country for eligible receivers when it comes to run blocking.


What a hilariously obscure stat
Posted by Draconian Sanctions
Markey's bar
Member since Oct 2008
85652 posts
Posted on 11/3/16 at 8:44 am to
quote:

I don't think he's saying Adams couldn't cover Howard 1 on 1 (he could, and probably would do it well), his point is Adams will be busy doing other things. He won't be afforded the luxury of just chasing OJ around the field the whole game like he was able to do with Engram against Ole Miss. He will be forced to participate in stopping the run.


I trust Aranda to scheme around and adjust mid-game situations like this. I haven't trusted a DC like I do Aranda since Saban was here.
Posted by Riseupfromtherubble
You'll Never Walk Alone
Member since Jun 2011
38628 posts
Posted on 11/3/16 at 9:02 am to
quote:

Anyway jackson is over 6-1 so he's plenty big.


What have y'all been feeding the kid? He's listed by LSU as 5'11" 173 pounds and we all know media guides ususally inflate heights. Jackson matches up better with Ridley than Stewart. Bottom line. Tolliver and White both matchup better with Ardarius, he's just a very physical ball player and for all tne speed Jackson has...and believe me I know it's elite, he is at a physical disadvantage against Stewart. Ardarius plays with the mentality of a linebacker
Posted by Riseupfromtherubble
You'll Never Walk Alone
Member since Jun 2011
38628 posts
Posted on 11/3/16 at 9:04 am to
And yes triple daves is correct on my original point. Adams shutting down Engram is impressive but it's irrelevant to how he'll matchup with Howard. Two totally different types of players for one, and the scheme isn't going to allow Adams to cheat pass or run
Posted by Triple Daves
ITP
Member since Sep 2016
5740 posts
Posted on 11/3/16 at 9:11 am to
quote:

What a hilariously obscure stat


Receivers blocking seems like a pretty pertinent stat. The qualifier is "eligible receivers" because that is how you determine who is a receiver and who is really operating as a lineman.
Posted by Draconian Sanctions
Markey's bar
Member since Oct 2008
85652 posts
Posted on 11/3/16 at 9:13 am to
quote:

and the scheme isn't going to allow Adams to cheat pass or run


no but Aranda is a guy who can take 11 puzzle pieces and make it look like anything he wants.
Posted by Triple Daves
ITP
Member since Sep 2016
5740 posts
Posted on 11/3/16 at 9:15 am to
quote:

no but Aranda is a guy who can take 11 puzzle pieces and make it look like anything he wants.


The scheme matchup Saturday, with all the athletes on both sides in the LSU D vs Alabama O, will be some sort of entertainment. All the NFL players, 2 of the best and most creative minds on each side.

Fun stuff. You don't get that all that often.
Posted by Triple Daves
ITP
Member since Sep 2016
5740 posts
Posted on 11/3/16 at 9:20 am to
4 Things LSU must do to beat Alabama - SB Nation

quote:


1. At least four gains of 30-plus yards
LSU has gotten its act together offensively since head coach Les Miles’ September dismissal. The Tigers are up to 18th in Off. S&P+ and have averaged 42 points per game and 8.6 yards per play in Orgeron’s three games in charge. They are first in the country in Rushing IsoPPP (which measures the magnitude of your successful plays), and even with a limited passing game and only seven games played, they are 36th in the country with 22 gains of 30-plus yards.
They’re still inefficient, though. They rank 57th in success rate and 30th in opponent-adjusted Success Rate+. While quarterback Danny Etling has been steadier than Harris, he’s still completing just 60.5 percent of his passes and mostly missing on deep balls. Harris’ passer rating topped 150 five times in 2015, and Etling’s has done so just once this year, against Southern Miss.
Compare this with Alabama’s defensive stats, and you see what needs to happen.
The Crimson Tide defense is about as good as ever; Bama ranks second in Def. S&P+, behind only Michigan, and second in success rate allowed. They crush you with three-and-outs and turnovers, and they’re willing to give up a few big plays in the process because they know you won’t get enough of them.
The result: big plays against Alabama are infrequent, but big. The Tide have given up only 86 gains of 10-plus yards (11th in FBS), but 14 have gone 30-plus (27th). The rate of big big plays has slowed — the Crimson Tide have been almost impossibly good at most things since their tight win over Ole Miss in Week 3 — but they are still willing to trade occasional big plays for extreme efficiency.
This is something LSU must exploit. Etling must complete at least one pass over the top, like Harris did last year, and however the Tigers do it, they must create the occasional running lane for Fournette and Derrius Guice. The two are averaging 8 yards per carry, but Fournette was averaging 7.7 heading into last year’s Bama game.
There is speculation that LSU might come out passing a little bit, hoping to stretch Alabama from side to side to pull defenders out of the tackle box. It would be a very Lane Kiffin-esque game plan, to pass to set up the run, and it might not work. While Alabama is technically worse at defending the pass than the run, it’s relative: the Tide are second in Passing S&P+ and first in Rushing S&P+. Early passing might mean early three-and-outs and a deficit that forces LSU to pass even more.
Still, you have to try something, and with Alabama safety Eddie Jackson out with injury, it might make sense. If it frees up Fournette or Guice two or three times, maybe that’s enough.

2. At least nine tackles for loss
Alabama's offense has been disturbingly impressive in 2016. Despite going with a true-freshman starter in quarterback Jalen Hurts, the Tide are up to third in Off. S&P+; they have scored at least 33 points in every game and have only twice averaged under 6.2 yards per play.
Hurts has his freshman moments, but he has still completed 63 percent of his passes and has kept both his interception rate (2.5 percent) and sack rate (4.2 percent) in acceptable ranges. Alabama ranks only 34th in Passing S&P+, but that only hurts you so much when nobody can force you to pass. The Tide are fifth in Rushing S&P+ and 14th in Standard Downs S&P+.
And once they get into scoring position, you're toast. They're second in the country with 6.2 points per scoring opportunity (defined as drives that reach the opponent’s 40).
This has been the best performance of Kiffin’s career. Despite quarterback youth, the Tide needed only a couple of games to hit full-speed, and as Orgeron so seductively put it this week, Kiffin has kept Hurts in advantageous situations with “nakeds, waggles and boots.”
There are glitches, though. Texas A&M recorded 12 tackles for loss, sacking Hurts three times and stuffing the Alabama run at or behind the line 26 percent of the time.
Negative plays kill drives, especially when you're asking a freshman to catch up to the chains. Alabama ranks just 76th in stuff rate and a fallible 57th in Adj. Sack Rate.
LSU's defense is 12th in Adj. Sack Rate, but only 88th in stuffs. The Tigers aren't nearly as disruptive as the Aggies, but they have to figure out a way to take advantage of Alabama's glitches all the same. They swarm to the ball near the line of scrimmage as well as anybody, but they'll probably have to get behind the line occasionally.

3. Five points per scoring opportunity (preferably more)
This is no longer 2011. Field goals will not defeat Alabama.
Saban’s program has fully adapted to college football’s up-tempo stylings and is more than comfortable with winning a shootout. And while the Tide aren’t exactly Baylor in the tempo department, they are above average.
LSU is not. The Tigers have the third-slowest tempo in the country and create the second-fewest solo tackles. They are still big and plodding, and they will attempt to minimize snaps and possessions.
In a slowed-down environment, finishing drives matters even more than normal because you’re going to end up with fewer scoring opportunities inside the 40-yard line, and Alabama is typically even more devastating the closer they (or you) get to the end zone.
• Offensive points per scoring opportunity: Alabama 6.2 (second), LSU 5.0 (46th)
• Defensive points per scoring opportunity: LSU 3.4 (eighth), Alabama 3.4 (ninth)
Mash those averages together, and you have a bar set at about 4.8 points per opp for Alabama and 4.2 for LSU. That won’t do. LSU has to top the Crimson Tide here, and that will probably take at least an average of 5 points per chance.
For perspective, that means two touchdowns and two field goals in four chances. Three TDs and one FG would mean a 6-point average. You might want that instead.

4. A field position win (or at least a draw)
If we’re talking about Alabama-LSU, we probably need to talk about the punters. JK Scott and Josh Growden will have roles.
It probably isn’t a surprise that both Alabama and LSU tend to create excellent field position for their defenses; on average, opponents begin drives against Alabama at the 27.1 (19th in FBS) and against LSU at the 27.4 (26th). Feld position is dictated not only by special teams but also by things like turnovers and efficiency, but punting has been a strength for both teams. Scott’s Alabama ranks 14th in net punting, Growden’s LSU 27th.
Be it through whatever combination of punting, turnovers, and converting an extra first down or two, LSU must prevent Alabama from tilting the field in its favor. The Tide will have successful moments — their by-committee run game was an issue for a couple of early weeks but has moved into wheat-thresher mode — but the more LSU can force them to go 75-plus yards, the better.

Hitting all four of these benchmarks might not be enough.
Alabama’s rushing trio of Damien Harris, Joshua Jacobs, and Bo Scarbrough (plus Hurts) might simply create too many big plays for it to matter, and Alabama’s defense, maybe the most opportunistic since LSU’s incredible 2011 collective, might put points on the board to counter a couple of big LSU gains.
But without hitting these benchmarks, it’s hard to see Orgeron’s Bayou Bengals having a chance.

This post was edited on 11/3/16 at 9:22 am
Posted by JustGetItRight
Member since Jan 2012
15752 posts
Posted on 11/3/16 at 9:44 am to
quote:

This has been the best performance of Kiffin’s career.


Amazingly, it seems like half our fan base can't grasp this.
Posted by Triple Daves
ITP
Member since Sep 2016
5740 posts
Posted on 11/3/16 at 9:50 am to
Alabama vs LSU - Tale of the Tape (SB Nation)

Five biggest advantages* (according to the advanced stats)
* or smallest disadvantages

Alabama
1. Field Position (No. 19 defense vs. No. 119 offense)
2. Redzone S&P+ (No. 5 defense vs. No. 89 offense)
3. Passing Explosiveness (IsoPPP) (No. 3 defense vs. No. 64 offense)
4. Adj. Sack Rate (No. 7 defense vs. No. 66 offense)
5. Passing S&P+ (No. 2 defense vs. No. 59 offense)

LSU
1. Standard Downs Sack Rate (No. 14 defense vs. No. 80 offense)
2. Short-Yardage Rushing (No. 79 offense vs. No. 125 defense)
3. Field Position (No. 26 defense vs. No. 67 offense)
4. Passing Explosiveness (IsoPPP) (No. 5 defense vs. No. 36 offense)
5. Passing S&P+ (No. 4 defense vs. No. 34 offense)
Posted by Leonard
New Orleans
Member since Sep 2014
4254 posts
Posted on 11/3/16 at 9:54 am to
Big fan of Bill Connelly. Tacking onto the article you posted, his S&P+ projections have the following score:

Alabama 29
LSU 23

Which, honestly, is a pretty good benchmark for this game IMO
Posted by Triple Daves
ITP
Member since Sep 2016
5740 posts
Posted on 11/3/16 at 9:55 am to
quote:

Big fan of Bill Connelly. Tacking onto the article you posted, his S&P+ projections have the following score: Alabama 29 LSU 23 Which, honestly, is a pretty good benchmark for this game IMO


Yep, agree, he's very good. I like his stat models and I love the fact that he isn't arrogant about them and is totally open to tweaking and improving them. He just enjoys football and knowing more about it.

The advanced stats basically line up with general knowledge on the game, too. Will be in the margin of error, meaning a big play/turnover here or there could make the game.
Posted by Dock Holiday
Member since Sep 2015
1676 posts
Posted on 11/3/16 at 10:02 am to
Bama passing efficiency defence is essentially the same as LSU but they have allowed twice as many passing TD's as LSU this season.
Posted by Triple Daves
ITP
Member since Sep 2016
5740 posts
Posted on 11/3/16 at 10:04 am to
quote:

Bama passing efficiency defence is essentially the same as LSU but they have allowed twice as many passing TD's as LSU this season.


Alabama allows big plays but allows almost nothing outside of that. So, that leads to pretty good efficiency numbers but bad explosiveness numbers. Same with their run defense. They give up almost zero explosive plays, but the few times they do, those plays are pretty explosive.
Posted by Triple Daves
ITP
Member since Sep 2016
5740 posts
Posted on 11/3/16 at 10:06 am to
Pro Football Focus Prediction - #1 Alabama @ #13 LSU

PFF Prediction - Bama @ LSU


No. 1 Alabama at No. 13 LSU
Line: Alabama, -7.5
Under/Over: 45

In four SEC contests, LSU QB Danny Etling has completed just three attempts of at least 20 yards through the air out of 18 tries. Without the threat to stretch Alabama vertically, the Crimson Tide will crown the box and make for another tough day on the ground for RB Leonard Fournette, who managed just 31 yards on 19 carries against Alabama last year. Another comfortable win for the best team in the country this week and we can start to look forward to what is sure to be another outstanding Iron Bowl.

Prediction: Alabama 33, LSU 16
This post was edited on 11/3/16 at 10:07 am
Posted by Knight of Old
New Hampshire
Member since Jul 2007
11549 posts
Posted on 11/3/16 at 10:06 am to
The red team will be wearing hideously-red jerseys.

So, right there they are terribly disadvantaged.
Posted by Dock Holiday
Member since Sep 2015
1676 posts
Posted on 11/3/16 at 10:14 am to
You sort of made my point. LSU is just as good in pass defense, but also does not give up the big play (save for 2 times early in the game against Ole Miss)near as much. There are explosive plays to be had by LSU in the passing game more so than Bama. This year Bama will have to defend 3 very talented and experienced receivers along with a improved passing game to the TE's and RB's. Explosive plays early in the game could help LSU soften the pass rush and put the Bama D on it's heals to an extent.
Posted by Arksulli
Fayetteville
Member since Aug 2014
25729 posts
Posted on 11/3/16 at 10:16 am to
quote:

Prediction: Alabama 33, LSU 16


I think it will be a closer game then that. The big question is can LSU prevent Bama from getting the non offensive TDs (turnovers and special teams) that the Tide has racked up all season long?

A pick 6 could not only hurt Etling's confidence it could put Bama into position to pull away like they have done all year. LSU has to throw the deep ball to keep up with the Bama offense but they will be playing with fire when they do so.
Posted by Triple Daves
ITP
Member since Sep 2016
5740 posts
Posted on 11/3/16 at 10:17 am to
quote:

LSU is just as good in pass defense, but also does not give up the big play (save for 2 times early in the game against Ole Miss)near as much. There are explosive plays to be had by LSU in the passing game more so than Bama


Perhaps, but only 2 teams have had real explosive passing success, and they are the 2 best passing teams in the league (and one of them primarily did their damage after being down 25 points, Arkansas).

So, it remains to be seen if LSU can do what Chad Kelly did or not.
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