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re: watching "30 for 30" about The Boz, got me thinking....
Posted on 12/26/14 at 12:13 pm to TxTiger82
Posted on 12/26/14 at 12:13 pm to TxTiger82
quote:
Cam, on the other hand, never had a Vince-esque bowl performance.
and for me thats why ill take VY over cam, as VY had 2 legendary performances. He played his best in the biggest games. Thats part of what this thread is about, what separates the legendary athletes from the great athletes.
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Posted on 12/26/14 at 12:21 pm to 632627
quote:
Vince young was a better college qb than cam. It's close, and Vince's longevity helps his argument, but his performances in 2 rose bowls were legendary.
Cam was a better QB no doubt. He was easily a better passer than Young. Cam had a very fluid arm delivery and could make ALL the throws - touch passes, deep balls, hot routes, etc. On top of that he could make ALL the runs. Seriously, Cam wasn't just some dude that took off when a play broke down. He was a fullback, edge sprinter and find the hole halfback all roled into one. If it was 3rd and less than five Cam was bringing it on a called run. The defense knew this and still couldn't stop him. Oh, and he made a few circus catches as well. Cam could literally do everything with the football and make it look easy.
I've got nothing against Young. I'm a die-hard Titans fan and cheered and pulled for him every step of the way. I even think the Titans could/should have done more to develop him. But the truth is Young was just a great athlete playing QB on a team with lots of talent. He had serious flaws in his mechanics and mental approach that were never going to classify him as elite.
Posted on 12/26/14 at 12:26 pm to 632627
quote:
He played his best in the biggest games.
So did Cam. The SEC in 2010 was heads and shoulders above the Big 12 in 2005. He had numerous enormously important games in the SEC in 2010 that he dominated. Just because he didn't have an amazing game in the 2010 NC(still had a really good game) doesn't mean that VY's Rose Bowl performance makes him a better college player.
Posted on 12/26/14 at 12:37 pm to Funky Tide 8
quote:
The SEC in 2010 was heads and shoulders above the Big 12 in 2005.
Perhaps, but 2010 Auburn had some really close games against Mississippi State, Clemson, Kentucky, LSU, and Alabama.
2005 Texas had one close game before the MNCG, and that was at Ohio State, which was ranked #4 at the time and finished #4. Texas blew every team not named Ohio State or USC out of the water. Auburn did not do anything comparable to that.
Did Auburn play better competition? Yes. Did Texas perform how you would expect against weaker competition? Yes.
This post was edited on 12/26/14 at 12:39 pm
Posted on 12/26/14 at 12:39 pm to TxTiger82
quote:
Perhaps, but 2010 Auburn had some really close games against Mississippi State, Clemson, Kentucky, LSU, and Alabama.
2005 Texas had one close game before the MNCG, and that was at Ohio State, which was ranked #4 at the time and finished #4. Texas blew every team not named Ohio State or USC out of the water. Auburn did not.
Did Auburn play better competition? Yes. Did Texas perform how you would expect against weaker competition? Yes.
Wait, are we talking about teams, or individual players?
Posted on 12/26/14 at 12:45 pm to proudertider
Run DMC
Was like that.
Arkansas has no passing threat really but no one had an answer for that man and his crew of Hillis and jones.
Was like that.
Arkansas has no passing threat really but no one had an answer for that man and his crew of Hillis and jones.
Posted on 12/26/14 at 12:47 pm to Funky Tide 8
quote:
Wait, are we talking about teams, or individual players?
Very hard to separate the two when we're talking about QBs. But the point is that Vince Young's offenses scored a lot more than Cam Newton's. With Vince at the helm, that offense blew most teams out.
Can't say that about Cam.
Posted on 12/26/14 at 12:50 pm to Funky Tide 8
quote:
Wait, are we talking about teams, or individual players?
he is probably trying to say that comparing statistics between young and newton is tough because auburn played many close games, thus making newton's volume and usage different than young's, as almost all of texas' games that season were over at halftime.
mechanically, newton was a better qb than young, i can't argue that. both were physical freaks of nature, much more so than a tebow, manziel, tommie frazier, etc.
Posted on 12/26/14 at 12:55 pm to TxTiger82
quote:
But the point is that Vince Young's offenses scored a lot more than Cam Newton's.
No, not really.
Posted on 12/26/14 at 12:55 pm to 632627
Posted on 12/26/14 at 12:55 pm to 632627
quote:
he is probably trying to say that comparing statistics between young and newton is tough because auburn played many close games, thus making newton's volume and usage different than young's, as almost all of texas' games that season were over at halftime.
Yes, thank you. Texas had a more efficient and potent offense than Auburn did. They played against weaker competition but performed how you would expect - by blowing those teams out. And that clearly affects the way you use the QB.
Posted on 12/26/14 at 12:58 pm to Funky Tide 8
quote:
No, not really.
Their season average was nearly 10 ppg higher than Auburn's. Yes, really.
This post was edited on 12/26/14 at 12:59 pm
Posted on 12/26/14 at 1:00 pm to TxTiger82
quote:
Their season average was nearly 10 ppg higher than Auburn's. Yes, really.
I feel like once you are past 40 points per game, 9 points really is kind of trivial.
Posted on 12/26/14 at 1:05 pm to Funky Tide 8
quote:
9 points really is kind of trivial.
Wrong. Let's put this in perspective:
1) No team in 2014 averaged as many ppg as Texas in 2005.
2) There are 10 teams within 9 ppg of the 2014 scoring leader (Baylor), including Georgia Southern.
3) 2010 Auburn would be ranked #8 or 9 in 2014 in scoring offense.
9 ppg is a lot.
Posted on 12/26/14 at 1:10 pm to TxTiger82
It's not really debatable, that 05 Texas offense was much better than 10 auburn. Texas 05 is one of the top 3 greatest offenses I've ever seen
Posted on 12/26/14 at 1:10 pm to TxTiger82
quote:
Let's put this in perspective:
1) No team in 2014 averaged as many ppg as Texas in 2005.
2) There are 10 teams within 9 ppg of the 2014 scoring leader (Baylor), including Georgia Southern.
3) 2010 Auburn would be ranked #8 or 9 in 2014 in scoring offense.
Hmm, okay
Posted on 12/26/14 at 1:12 pm to 632627
quote:
Texas 05 is one of the top 3 greatest offenses I've ever seen
Exactly, and what's really crazy is I think USC 2005 was statistically better. In 2005, we saw two of the greatest CFB offenses ever.
Posted on 12/26/14 at 1:13 pm to Funky Tide 8
quote:
Hmm, okay
How do you write off 9 ppg? They averaged more than one score more than Auburn. If anything, I think the burden is on you to make the case about why this isn't important.
This post was edited on 12/26/14 at 1:14 pm
Posted on 12/26/14 at 1:18 pm to TxTiger82
quote:
How do you write off 9 ppg?
I never did. I just said that it doesn't mean THAT much to when comparing QBs.
A lot of my argument lies on each players stats from their last years playing cfb, as well as myself seeing both play and coming to the conclusion that Newton was the better player in my opinion.
Agree to disagree.
Posted on 12/26/14 at 1:23 pm to Funky Tide 8
quote:
I never did. I just said that it doesn't mean THAT much to when comparing QBs.
A lot of my argument lies on each players stats from their last years playing cfb
But we have already established that ppg can have a NEGATIVE impact on a QB's stats. The point is that VY's stats are probably deflated because Texas' offense kicked it into cruise control more often than not.
quote:
as well as myself seeing both play and coming to the conclusion that Newton was the better player in my opinion.
The eyeball test is pretty subjective. Both players dominated. Cam had a better arm, its true. That has shown in his ability to adapt to the NFL where VY could not.
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