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re: Alabama fans stand alone

Posted on 3/1/14 at 6:28 am to
Posted by DawgsLife
Member since Jun 2013
59008 posts
Posted on 3/1/14 at 6:28 am to
quote:

get rid of a gimmick.


Why do people continue to call it a gimmick? I mean, football has changed from the very beginning.

The forward pass was considered a gimmick.
The wishbone was a gimmick.
The Veer was a gimmick.
Facemasks were gimmicks.
Hardshell helmets were gimmicks.
Gatorade was a gimmick.
The spread a gimmick.

Any time a new offense or innovation is introduced, it is called a gimmick. Shoot...at one time the internet was considered a gimmick. It won't last!

Posted by randomways
North Carolina
Member since Aug 2013
12988 posts
Posted on 3/1/14 at 9:33 am to
quote:

Why do people continue to call it a gimmick? I mean, football has changed from the very beginning.

The forward pass was considered a gimmick.
The wishbone was a gimmick.
The Veer was a gimmick.
Facemasks were gimmicks.
Hardshell helmets were gimmicks.
Gatorade was a gimmick.
The spread a gimmick.

Any time a new offense or innovation is introduced, it is called a gimmick. Shoot...at one time the internet was considered a gimmick. It won't last!


I call it that mainly because -- and I'm addressing Doreontheplains' observation here too -- I suspect most people are equating "up-tempo" with HUNH. They're not the same, and I consider the comparison with such things as the forward pass and the wishbone to be a false equivalence. Up-tempo is a perfectly legitimate style, though I seriously doubt that up-tempo teams are inherently in measurably better shape than, say, players on LSU or Bama. These kids are all in better shape than most of us will ever be, and the good coaches makes sure their players are capable of the rigors of the game. The main difference is that offense is easier and less strenuous to run than defense regardless of how good a shape you're in. It's easier to block, even when exhausted, than to push past the block and reach the ball-holder. But that's neither here nor there -- pacing is a coaching choice even if it is more suitable, in spirit, with the continuous style of play of basketball . But HUNH isn't some innovation in actual football application. It doesn't introduce a single thing to the actual play on the field. Its primary purpose is to prevent the defense from being in the position to execute regardless of how athletic or well-coached the defense is. Whether it should be nerfed to some degree, I couldn't say. The main debate is actually irresolvable because it's entirely about philosophy and how one views the game and, to a huge extent, how it affects one's favorite team. But it's still not so much an "innovation" as a "gimmick." You don't have to run the HUNH in order to have an up-tempo offense, after all. The HUNH isn't about tempo, it's about a very specific leveraging of the system to undercut the opponent's ability to react to your plays.

I look at it this way. Remember Paul Westhead's run-n-gun Loyola teams? They were famous for running up and down the court and taking every shot they could, trying to cut behind the other team at every opportunity. They looked "good" because they were ramping up the points and, ultimately, outpacing their opponents (and because, on a couple occasions, they actually had legitimate talent.) To the uninitiated, and to the kids who saw only flashy offensive numbers, they looked good. They were up-tempo, but their goal wasn't to outhustle and outplay their opponents, it was to simply keep scoring and hope to keep their opponent from establishing itself. But then they would run into teams that were either legitimately good at the up-tempo as a style rather than a gimmick to keep their opponent off-balance (Arkansas, UNLV) or could deal with the tempo because they were better-coached (UNC.) At that point, the gimmick was exposed for what it was, less a matter of up-tempo style of play (which was a legitimate choice) than a hope and a prayer that the opponent wouldn't be able to get established or, at the very least, wouldn't be able to make up ground lost after a streaky series of possessions (which was a gimmick.) So Arkansas and UNLV would be up-tempo teams, but legitimately well-coached up-tempo teams that relied on out-playing their opponents rather than simply slipping past them.
Posted by RollTide1987
Augusta, GA
Member since Nov 2009
65147 posts
Posted on 3/1/14 at 11:21 am to
quote:

Why do people continue to call it a gimmick? I mean, football has changed from the very beginning.

The forward pass was considered a gimmick.
The wishbone was a gimmick.
The Veer was a gimmick.
Facemasks were gimmicks.
Hardshell helmets were gimmicks.
Gatorade was a gimmick.
The spread a gimmick.


And the defense was allowed to substitute players in between plays for all of those "gimmicks". The HUNH is not like the others because it tries to get the defense out of position by running fast and disallowing substitutions. I have no problem with Auburn's or Texas A&M's actual offense. I find them fun to watch, especially Auburn's. It essentially takes the triple option out from under center and into a spread formation. Genius.

I'm not even angry at the speed in which the offense is run. If they want to go fast then let them go fast. HOWEVER...my problem is how the offense can hurry up to the line, get a play signaled in, taking 20-30 seconds to do so, and the defense is not allowed to substitute in and out players. I think the defense should be allowed to substitute.

You may bring up the fact the offense can't substitute but you can't compare the two for a couple of reasons.

1) Offensive players already know which way the play is going. A WR lining up on the left side knows the play is going to the right so he takes the play off. The DB who is covering him, however, has to cover the entire length of the field. When he sees his man is not the target of the play, that DB will sprint to the opposite side of the field and try to make a play. This allows for the offense to go deep on him with that fresh WR on very next play.

2) As mentioned above, defensive players have to cover the entire field because they don't know where the play is going. Only a few offensive players really have to do anything on a WR screen to the right side, but everyone on defense has to react to it just in case the guy breaks tackles or causes defenders to miss.

For the longest time the defense was able to substitute these defenders out after two or three plays to give them some rest, but the HUNH has taken that option away from defenses. Kudos for finding a loophole (I consider it a loophole) in the rule book, but I don't think it's quite fair for the the defenses.

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