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Actual NCAA by-law regarding helmet removal

Posted on 10/26/09 at 3:40 pm
Posted by TideSaint
Hill Country
Member since Sep 2008
84216 posts
Posted on 10/26/09 at 3:40 pm
The Helmet Rule

First, understand that removing your helmet while on the field of play is expressly against the rules. Rule 9-2-1:

Unsportsmanlike Acts
ARTICLE 1. There shall be no unsportsmanlike conduct or any act that interferes with orderly game administration on the part of players, substitutes, coaches, authorized attendants or any other persons subject to the rules, before the game, during the game or between periods. a. Specifically prohibited acts and conduct include: 1. No player, substitute, coach or other person subject to the rules shall use abusive, threatening or obscene language or gestures, or engage in such acts that provoke ill will or are demeaning to an opponent, to game officials or to the image of the game, including but not limited to:

. . .


(f) Removal of a player’s helmet before he is in the team area (Exceptions: Team, media or injury timeouts; equipment adjustment; through play; between periods; and during a measurement for a first down).

. . .
If committed while the ball is alive, these fouls are treated as dead-ball fouls.

PENALTY — Dead-ball foul or live-ball foul treated as dead-ball foul. 15 yards [S7 and S27] from the succeeding spot. Flagrant offenders, if players or substitutes, shall be disqualified [S47]. If a player or an identified squad member in uniform commits two unsportsmanlike fouls in the same game, he shall be disqualified.


Essentially what that means is that dead ball fouls are marked off on the NEXT play and do not ever result in a "re-do" of the play on which they occurred, despite what Lane Kiffin may believe.



But Tennessee could've recovered the ball!

Well, no. No they couldn't have. A scrimmage kick (A.K.A. Field Goal) is a live ball, recoverable by either team, only until it crosses the neutral zone. At that point, the kicking team can only recover the ball once it has been touched by the defending team. Further, if a scrimmage kick touches goes beyond the neutral zone its character changes. From that point forward, the ball is unrecoverable by the kicking team unless it goes on to touch a player on the defending team. To be clear, the initial block would not count toward this. It would need to be touched again. Further, it would need to be touched before it touched the ground beyond the neutral zone.

Rule 2-15-1-b states: "Any free kick or scrimmage kick continues to be a kick until it is caught or recovered by a player or becomes dead."

Rule 4-3-h states that the ball becomes dead "when a return kick or scrimmage kick beyond the neutral zone is made." While this might seem to imply that the ball was kicked from beyond the neutral zone, what it really means is that the scrimmage kick (the ball that has been kicked) has crossed the neutral zone and touched something on the other side.

Rule 5-4 discusses the "continuity of downs" and says that the continuity is broken in a number of circumstances like the expiration of the half or game, a change of possession during the play, failing to convert a fourth down, and so on. In other words, no matter what down it was, after one of these things, the next down is first down. In many cases, this means a change of possession. One such occurrence that breaks the continuity of downs is: "(b). A scrimmage kick crosses the neutral zone."


In short: when the ball was hit by Cody it was live and could have been recovered by either team . . . until it rolled past the neutral zone, at which point it was dead by rule, the play was over, and Alabama received possession.



But what if Tennessee got the ball before it crossed the neutral zone?

Someone arguing this is probably alluding to the rule that the game can't end on a defensive penalty. The problem is that that simple statement of the rule is not entirely correct. A more accurate portrayal of the rule is that the game can't end on a live ball foul. Rule 3-3 controls here:

Extension of Periods
ARTICLE 3. A period shall be extended until a down (other than a try), free from live-ball fouls not penalized as dead-ball fouls, has been played when:
a. A penalty is accepted for a live-ball foul(s) not penalized as a dead-ball foul that occurs during a down in which time expires (Exception: Rule 10-2-2-g-1) (A.R. 3-2-3-I-VIII).
b. Offsetting fouls occur during a down in which time expires.
c. An inadvertent whistle is sounded or an official signals the ball dead during a down in which time expires.


Live-ball fouls that are penalized as dead-ball fouls do not extend the game. So even if Tennessee had recovered that kick, the game would still have been over because the game is not extended by fouls that are treated like dead-ball fouls.



So what you're saying is that there's no way that Cody taking his helmet off could have given Tennessee another shot to win the game?

Exactly.

LINK
This post was edited on 10/26/09 at 3:42 pm
Posted by BamaInHsv
Huntsville
Member since Nov 2008
17889 posts
Posted on 10/26/09 at 3:44 pm to
This won't matter. Butt-hurt TN and LSU fans have seen the rules over and over and they still call BS on it. You're wasting your time.
Posted by QuickdrawMcVols
Member since Sep 2009
299 posts
Posted on 10/26/09 at 3:46 pm to
Didnt waste your time with me! Now I know the rules.

And knowing is half the battle.
This post was edited on 10/26/09 at 3:47 pm
Posted by tigercavor
Member since Sep 2006
1816 posts
Posted on 10/26/09 at 3:46 pm to
So what you are saying is that the refs missed the call, but it would not have resulted in any change.
Posted by ntztgr
mississippi
Member since Oct 2005
1755 posts
Posted on 10/26/09 at 3:49 pm to
well that is what he should say, course if you listen to finescum today you would think the gumps had lost
Posted by MoreOrLes
Member since Nov 2008
19472 posts
Posted on 10/26/09 at 3:50 pm to
a bammer quoting rules......
Posted by Paul_LSU_passion
Baton Rouge, LA
Member since Mar 2004
5469 posts
Posted on 10/26/09 at 3:51 pm to
quote:

Butt-hurt TN and LSU fans have seen the rules over and over and they still call BS on it. You're wasting your time.

Whoa there, don't be dragging LSU fans into this. We could give a frick about that other than laughing at Kiffin making an arse out of himself.
Posted by Gnar Cat21
Piña Coladaburg
Member since Sep 2009
17139 posts
Posted on 10/26/09 at 3:52 pm to
i think we should start another thread to discuss this topic
Posted by geauxtigahs87
Louisiana
Member since Dec 2008
26682 posts
Posted on 10/26/09 at 3:53 pm to
quote:

Whoa there, don't be dragging LSU fans into this.


The key to be an effective flamer is to disregard truth. Don't rain on his parade.
This post was edited on 10/26/09 at 4:06 pm
Posted by BamaInHsv
Huntsville
Member since Nov 2008
17889 posts
Posted on 10/26/09 at 3:53 pm to
quote:

Whoa there, don't be dragging LSU fans into this. We could give a frick about that other than laughing at Kiffin making an arse out of himself.
You're cool about it, sure. Trust me, there were more LSU fans than TN fans screaming about it this weekend.
Posted by GOBAMA90
Member since Oct 2008
2840 posts
Posted on 10/26/09 at 3:54 pm to
Everyone that has posted anything about this needs to read this.
UT fans, take it back to your message boards, and give a copy to your coach.

Better yet, give him a copy of the whole rules manual and tell him to read it before opening his mouth ever again.
Posted by MemphisJerk
Memphis You Jerk
Member since Oct 2008
865 posts
Posted on 10/26/09 at 3:57 pm to
quote:

a bammer quoting rules


They are really good with on the field rules, it's just the recruiting rules that are VERY fuzzy with them.
Posted by NashvilleTN
Nashville
Member since Sep 2005
347 posts
Posted on 10/26/09 at 3:57 pm to
The way it played out, I agree that the call was correct, other than as someone else suggested the flag should have been thrown, explained that time had expired and it's game over.

I do have a question regarding part of your commentary, not the rule itself.
You said,
quote:

Tennessee could've recovered the ball!

Well, no. No they couldn't have. A scrimmage kick (A.K.A. Field Goal) is a live ball, recoverable by either team, only until it crosses the neutral zone. At that point, the kicking team can only recover the ball once it has been touched by the defending team. Further, if a scrimmage kick touches goes beyond the neutral zone its character changes. From that point forward, the ball is unrecoverable by the kicking team unless it goes on to touch a player on the defending team. To be clear, the initial block would not count toward this. It would need to be touched again. Further, it would need to be touched before it touched the ground beyond the neutral zone.


Didn't UT pick up the earlier blocked kick and ty to advance it?
You are saying here that Cody's touch, blocking the kick, doesn't count and that someone else (Bama) would've had to touch it.

I think that if the ball had not crossed the line of scrimmage, UT could have picked it up and tried to score as they did earlier in the game.

They didn't on the final play, so it's of no consequence in this case

However, for future reference can you clarify?
Posted by TigersRuleTheEarth
Laffy
Member since Jan 2007
28643 posts
Posted on 10/26/09 at 3:58 pm to
quote:

Butt-hurt TN and LSU fans have seen the rules over and over and they still call BS on it.


WTF are you talking about gump? Why do I give a shite about a helmet removal rule?
Posted by BamaInHsv
Huntsville
Member since Nov 2008
17889 posts
Posted on 10/26/09 at 3:59 pm to
Ask you fellow fans that question. I wasn't pointing you out personally, dickhead.
Posted by auzach91
Marietta, GA
Member since Jan 2009
41333 posts
Posted on 10/26/09 at 4:03 pm to
quote:

. . .If committed while the ball is alive, these fouls are treated as dead-ball fouls.


so youre saying by the rule, that he should have gotten a penalty. The ball was still live because Mcclain picked it up. His helmet was clearly off when Mcclain touched the ball. It should be a penalty.

it should be a dead ball personal foul. since the game cannot end on a penalty, tennessee would then be granted another opportunity to make the FG

LINK

go to the :15 second mark and see.

also, why does the ref point out the ball to McClain when he cant find it?

This post was edited on 10/26/09 at 4:04 pm
Posted by QuickdrawMcVols
Member since Sep 2009
299 posts
Posted on 10/26/09 at 4:05 pm to
quote:

also, why does the ref point out the ball to McClain when he cant find it?


Because bama paid off the officials. Duh.
Posted by 62zip
One Particular Harbor
Member since Aug 2005
6938 posts
Posted on 10/26/09 at 4:06 pm to
quote:

so youre saying by the rule, that he should have gotten a penalty. The ball was still live because Mcclain picked it up. His helmet was clearly off when Mcclain touched the ball. It should be a penalty.

it should be a dead ball personal foul. since the game cannot end on a penalty, tennessee would then be granted another opportunity to make the FG


My God - it's not that hard.

It is an unsportsmanlike conduct foul, NOT a personal foul - why is it so hard for people to distinguish between the two?

And the game is not extended for dead ball fouls.

This isn't that hard to understand.
Posted by TideSaint
Hill Country
Member since Sep 2008
84216 posts
Posted on 10/26/09 at 4:30 pm to
quote:

You are saying here that Cody's touch, blocking the kick, doesn't count and that someone else (Bama) would've had to touch it.


Basically, it means that UT would have had to force a fumble for them to be able to regain possession.
Posted by 2poop
bama
Member since Sep 2009
4562 posts
Posted on 10/26/09 at 4:47 pm to
quote:

MoreOrLes
quote:

a bammer quoting rules......


A corndog understanding the rules..
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