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Birmingham-Southern College is shutting down; baseball team (Div III) is still playing
Posted on 5/23/24 at 7:53 am
Posted on 5/23/24 at 7:53 am
Finances causing the school to close. Hope their baseball team goes on a run.
5
Posted on 5/23/24 at 8:14 am to TheShmoo
Cool story, but ithe BSC closure is a comedy of errors.
They went Division I for four years. Not only was that an expensive investment, they basically renovated, rebuilt or restructured almost everything on their campus, and borrowed money to do it. They believed "If we build it, they will come."
When the D1 experiment was a total failure, they still had the debt. In order to appease an influential group, they conceded going back to D3 but adding football from scratch, which offset the savings from going D1 to D3.
About the same time, they recognized a multimillion dollar accounting error that was the catalyst for a ton of changes in administration.
Reeling from all of this, the Methodist church started their slide into the abyss which further weakened BSC's appeal to potential students. At one point, they tried to remove some Christian groups from campus which caused a drop in enrollment and giving.
Then they hired a couple of presidents with business/military experience that didn't really know what they were doing, and took on even more debt.
It finally all started to catch up with them and they were able to consolidate some debt at a good interest rate, and then COVID hit and that was the final blow.
They went Division I for four years. Not only was that an expensive investment, they basically renovated, rebuilt or restructured almost everything on their campus, and borrowed money to do it. They believed "If we build it, they will come."
When the D1 experiment was a total failure, they still had the debt. In order to appease an influential group, they conceded going back to D3 but adding football from scratch, which offset the savings from going D1 to D3.
About the same time, they recognized a multimillion dollar accounting error that was the catalyst for a ton of changes in administration.
Reeling from all of this, the Methodist church started their slide into the abyss which further weakened BSC's appeal to potential students. At one point, they tried to remove some Christian groups from campus which caused a drop in enrollment and giving.
Then they hired a couple of presidents with business/military experience that didn't really know what they were doing, and took on even more debt.
It finally all started to catch up with them and they were able to consolidate some debt at a good interest rate, and then COVID hit and that was the final blow.
Posted on 5/23/24 at 8:19 am to anc
quote:Bet that won’t be the only school that ends up folding because of incompetence at the top.
Cool story, but ithe BSC closure is a comedy of errors.
Posted on 5/23/24 at 8:19 am to TheShmoo
quote:
Birmingham-Southern College is shutting down
quote:
baseball team (Div III) is still playing
quote:
Finances causing the school to close.
How are they financing baseball?
Posted on 5/23/24 at 8:22 am to anc
I seem to recall them being one of the most expensive schools in the state to attend (maybe the most expensive at the time?) when I graduated high school.
Based on their most recent published numbers, it doesn’t look like they were able to keep up with the nationwide increases in cost of attendance (and still attract students) to help offset some of the debt mentioned by Internet user anc. I don’t think they’ve ever had more than about 2000 students, give or take.
Based on their most recent published numbers, it doesn’t look like they were able to keep up with the nationwide increases in cost of attendance (and still attract students) to help offset some of the debt mentioned by Internet user anc. I don’t think they’ve ever had more than about 2000 students, give or take.
This post was edited on 5/23/24 at 8:24 am
Posted on 5/23/24 at 8:24 am to BevoBucks
quote:
Bet that won’t be the only school that ends up folding because of incompetence at the top.
Definitely.
Another trick that these struggling small schools that are D3/NAIA are using are just allowing their sports rosters to be ridiculous. I know kids that didn't make their high school rosters that are on college rosters right now.
I present for you:
Centenary's baseball roster (50+ active players): LINK
UMHB's football roster (160+):
LINK
Yes, travel ball pay to play has made its way to the lower levels of NCAA sports. All of these guys are paying tuition to be on these teams. A place like Millsaps doesn't have these large rosters, but 70% of their students are athletes. Take notice when you hear of some high school player getting signed by "insert D3 school." Most of them will take anyone with experience. Many have low expectations of experience.
There is a guy on Millsaps' baseball roster that I know the family. He never played high school baseball and the last experience he had was 14U. Now, he doesn't see the field, but he has a roster spot and the family brags that he got a scholarship to play baseball at Miullsaps.
D3 schools do not give athletic scholarships.
This post was edited on 5/23/24 at 8:30 am
Posted on 5/23/24 at 8:26 am to LSU Grad Alabama Fan
quote:
How are they financing baseball?
At this point, the NCAA is covering travel expenses, which is all they are paying at this point.
At the same time they were winning their regional tournament in Kentucky, the school was auctioning off their non-game equipment.
Posted on 5/23/24 at 8:28 am to TheShmoo
That's a shame. I had some high school classmates who went there.
Posted on 5/23/24 at 8:33 am to Lucado
quote:
That's a shame. I had some high school classmates who went there.
Back in the 90s/00s, it was a reputable school. Hence why they tried to grow by going D1 in sports.
High Point in North Carolina was the same model that BSC tried to do. High Point was successful because they had a unique student recruitment model.
Sleepy little High Point went from D3 to D1, did not build out their facilities at first and did not add football even though they were tempted. They started scholarshipping children of C-suite executives in NC and guess what happened? People started wanting to go too High Point to network with these kids. All of a sudden, High Point was competing with Davidson for students, then it became a cool place for NC kids to go.
They had a president that branded High Point as the "Life Skills University" about the same time woke started invading college campuses. All of a sudden, it became a place for conservatives to go.
Solid business school
A bunch of Executives' kids
D1 athletics
Conservative values
Go from 1000 to 5000 students in 15 years.
This post was edited on 5/23/24 at 8:36 am
Posted on 5/23/24 at 9:10 am to anc
quote:
the BSC closure is a comedy of errors
Excellent, concise summary of the significant events that occurred.
Subsequent to all of that, the Alabama legislature created a financial "lifeline" program for distressed colleges, but their application for a taxpayer-backed loan was ultimately denied.
Despite the objection of community members, it was clear that even a $30 million State bailout would only be a minor stopgap when the intuition was running a nearly $40 million deficit.
Divisive (recent) politics aside, the central issue was roughly 20 years of financial mismanagement.
Posted on 5/23/24 at 9:33 am to paperwasp
The $30 million would have kept them open a couple of years unless they had a boom in enrollment, which was not happening with all of the rumors of closures.
I fully believe there is a place in society for smaller colleges. Everyone does not fit an an SEC-type school. But leadership is important. Look around society and see the leadership void we have in schools, businesses, organizations, churches, government, even military.
Yesterday, I read where American Airlines had a male flight attendant hide a camera in the plane's bathroom and take photos of passengers, including a 9 year old girl. The executives at AA blamed the girl for not knowing there was a camera.
We are going to see some shite over the next decade. Colleges closing, major businesses shutting down, government corruption exposed. I sometimes wonder if we are wasting our best leaders like Nick Saban on football.
I fully believe there is a place in society for smaller colleges. Everyone does not fit an an SEC-type school. But leadership is important. Look around society and see the leadership void we have in schools, businesses, organizations, churches, government, even military.
Yesterday, I read where American Airlines had a male flight attendant hide a camera in the plane's bathroom and take photos of passengers, including a 9 year old girl. The executives at AA blamed the girl for not knowing there was a camera.
We are going to see some shite over the next decade. Colleges closing, major businesses shutting down, government corruption exposed. I sometimes wonder if we are wasting our best leaders like Nick Saban on football.
Posted on 5/23/24 at 10:00 am to anc
Also remember their students burnt 9 black churches to the ground. That is when a lot of donations stopped.
This post was edited on 5/23/24 at 12:28 pm
Posted on 5/23/24 at 10:11 am to BevoBucks
quote:
Bet that won’t be the only school that ends up folding because of incompetence at the top.
A trend that started about 20 years ago is starting to make its effect felt... "Let's run a University like a business! If we spiff things up we will get more students!"
And that worked like a charm, until it didn't and suddenly you had a ton of schools over leveraged in debt to build those additions who, in order to afford it in the first place, had been reducing their academic staff.
A big school can pull this off, though they can get in a lot of trouble if they go overboard, a small school... we're going to see dozens of colleges fold in the next decade.
Posted on 5/23/24 at 10:52 am to Arksulli
Definitely.
A few years ago, I went on a three week tour of European universities with a group of University of Alabama's Higher Education doctoral students.
At a panel interview at a university in Prague, a student asked why American universities invested so much money in non-essentials and referenced LSU's $80 million lazy river. My answer was probably too simple - universities have to do things to stand out but you are spot on, universities have become businesses.
When I was a freshman at Mississippi State, the most exciting thing going was the freshman male dorm got central air conditioning the summer before I started.
I have two daughters - one just graduated college last year and the other is in high school looking at colleges. It is rare that a college of any size promote academic quality. It's the three S's - Size, Sizzle and Sports.
When I advise students and parents on their college decision, I always tell them to look for hidden gems. For example, if you have a student that wants to go to med school, Kentucky is the only SEC school with a med school on their main campus. But a hidden gem is a school like South Alabama. They give incredible undergraduate scholarships, it's fairly easy for a good student to get out of state waived, and they have a pretty good medical school that is competitively priced.
But the number of families that dismiss a place like that because their athletic teams play in a non-Power 5 conference is shocking. My daughter included. She's looking at a few SEC schools, a Big 12 school and an ACC school. My oldest daughter went to a different ACC school. Big schools are doing some work attracting students.
A few years ago, I went on a three week tour of European universities with a group of University of Alabama's Higher Education doctoral students.
At a panel interview at a university in Prague, a student asked why American universities invested so much money in non-essentials and referenced LSU's $80 million lazy river. My answer was probably too simple - universities have to do things to stand out but you are spot on, universities have become businesses.
When I was a freshman at Mississippi State, the most exciting thing going was the freshman male dorm got central air conditioning the summer before I started.
I have two daughters - one just graduated college last year and the other is in high school looking at colleges. It is rare that a college of any size promote academic quality. It's the three S's - Size, Sizzle and Sports.
When I advise students and parents on their college decision, I always tell them to look for hidden gems. For example, if you have a student that wants to go to med school, Kentucky is the only SEC school with a med school on their main campus. But a hidden gem is a school like South Alabama. They give incredible undergraduate scholarships, it's fairly easy for a good student to get out of state waived, and they have a pretty good medical school that is competitively priced.
But the number of families that dismiss a place like that because their athletic teams play in a non-Power 5 conference is shocking. My daughter included. She's looking at a few SEC schools, a Big 12 school and an ACC school. My oldest daughter went to a different ACC school. Big schools are doing some work attracting students.
This post was edited on 5/23/24 at 10:58 am
Posted on 5/23/24 at 11:11 am to Lucado
I have a granddaughter who will graduate (with honors) in this last class of Birmingham Southern. She saw this coming and is heartbroken.
Posted on 5/23/24 at 11:41 am to anc
quote:
The executives at AA blamed the girl for not knowing there was a camera.
That was their lawyers’ defense of the lawsuit. AA executives never said that. Semantics, perhaps. Once the news of that defense tactic made the news, they released a statement to correct it. No idea why their brass didn’t see that shite show coming and get in front of it. To your point, poor leadership is all around, and you’re right - the closing of colleges is a small symptom of something much larger.
This post was edited on 5/23/24 at 11:43 am
Posted on 5/23/24 at 11:57 am to Tuscaloosa
My apologies. The article I read referenced it as AA's defense.
I thought it was awful.
With apologies for sounding pseudo-intellectual, everything is trending down.
Many churches have become entertainment centers, the songs they sing are "Jesus is my boyfriend" type and it has pushed away a lot of men.
Men turn to sports and if it's not outright woke, it's being corrupted (Ive opined that NIL has changed college sports so much that many fans will eventually turn away). The Harrison Butker issue tells me that there is a divide that will not be solved easily.
Youth sports are corrupted - there are 10-year old teams that act like major league teams. We aren't developing leaders. It's all about winning.
So men are turning to alcohol and drugs more - and that's not their vice they are going with something even worse - porn. No leadership skills being formed in any of that.
I thought it was awful.
With apologies for sounding pseudo-intellectual, everything is trending down.
Many churches have become entertainment centers, the songs they sing are "Jesus is my boyfriend" type and it has pushed away a lot of men.
Men turn to sports and if it's not outright woke, it's being corrupted (Ive opined that NIL has changed college sports so much that many fans will eventually turn away). The Harrison Butker issue tells me that there is a divide that will not be solved easily.
Youth sports are corrupted - there are 10-year old teams that act like major league teams. We aren't developing leaders. It's all about winning.
So men are turning to alcohol and drugs more - and that's not their vice they are going with something even worse - porn. No leadership skills being formed in any of that.
Posted on 5/23/24 at 2:01 pm to TheShmoo
The state of Alabama will probably end up putting over $100 million into turning Birmingham Southern College into Alabama A&M at Birmingham. Maybe it would have been cheaper to just give Birmingham Southern its loan or maybe the state of Alabama values education 
This post was edited on 5/23/24 at 2:02 pm
Posted on 5/23/24 at 4:31 pm to TheFourHorsemen
quote:
Also remember their students burnt 9 black churches to the ground. That is when a lot of donations stopped.
There were black and white churches. It wasn't racially motivated.
OK downvoters:
quote:
No racial pattern
There was no racial pattern — five of the churches had white congregations and five black. All were Baptist, the dominant faith in the region, and mostly in isolated country settings.
A federal source said the apparent motive was that the three students just liked to set and watch fires.
Fires set as a joke
This post was edited on 5/23/24 at 7:06 pm
Posted on 5/23/24 at 5:20 pm to TheShmoo
Higher education is one of the biggest scams running
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