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re: 2023 Recruiting

Posted on 1/31/23 at 1:00 pm to
Posted by metafour
Member since Feb 2007
3599 posts
Posted on 1/31/23 at 1:00 pm to
quote:

Plenty of Saban assistants / "developers" have gone on to be not great at all (even more so than a lack of talent would suggest). The one that has succeeded, yes, "elite talent" is the difference.



Actually, more modern data analysis shows that Alabama is in fact the perfect example that it's NOT just "elite talent".

Dave Bartoo has basically discovered that every time that Saban/Bama hasn't won or competed for the national title, they have had a poorly graded OC, DC, or both (by Bartoo's coaching metrics). And "graded" means their actual ability to scheme/perform actual coaching/play calling duties.

This past season for them is yet another example of this as both O'Brien and Golding were KNOWN to be poorly graded hires by Saban. And what happened? Despite the fact that they actually have a Heisman winning QB (the most important piece on the field), they actually "under performed". How does Alabama with a Heisman QB lose to LSU with a first year HC and a worse QB?

Turns out that Saban caught on, and both O'Brien and Golding are being replaced. Their talent level has been pretty damn consistent during his time there; but his assistants and coordinators have not. Sometimes, he makes great hires and they win everything. Other times, he whiffs and they end up winning 10+ due to talent, but don't compete for the title.

If you look at Tulane beating USC or Oregon State beating Oregon, actual coaching still matters and always will matter. As I said before, the confirmation bias is that the teams with the most talent also generally have better coaches and coordinators than everyone else too. But you can learn a lot from a team like Alabama which consistently has elite talent, but the coaching isn't always elite. When their coaching is "down", it pretty much entirely correlates with their seasons wherein they aren't competing or playing for the title.
This post was edited on 1/31/23 at 1:01 pm
Posted by metafour
Member since Feb 2007
3599 posts
Posted on 1/31/23 at 1:05 pm to
And yes, Texas A&M is the perfect counter-example as well. Three-four straight ~Top 8 recruiting classes and it resulted in 5 wins this past season, including losing to us - a team with much less talent that was playing with a bandaid interim coaching staff.

That's entirely coaching, or lack thereof. And surprise surprise, Jimbo has one of the absolute worst coaching effect grades in the entire country (it might be the worst).
This post was edited on 1/31/23 at 1:06 pm
Posted by RandySavage
Member since May 2012
30888 posts
Posted on 1/31/23 at 3:14 pm to
quote:

Dave Bartoo has basically discovered that every time that Saban/Bama hasn't won or competed for the national title, they have had a poorly graded OC, DC,


So like twice in the last 15 years both of which they were one crazy play in a difficult road game away from competing or winning a national title (i.e. being in the playoff)?

Dave Bartoo, whoever that is, hasn't discovered shite. You disprove your own point. If you believe that the two coordinators are poor coaches and Alabama still went 11-2 with two losses on the last play of the game (the got hosed against UT btw) against two good teams in two of the most hostile environments in the country then I would say that's pretty much the argument that talent is going to win regardless the majority of the time.
This post was edited on 1/31/23 at 3:18 pm
Posted by pdfield34
Member since Aug 2022
330 posts
Posted on 1/31/23 at 4:10 pm to
quote:

Dave Bartoo has basically discovered that every time that Saban/Bama hasn't won or competed for the national title, they have had a poorly graded OC, DC, or both (by Bartoo's coaching metrics).



McElwain - Won titles, other years didn't

Nussmeier - Won title, other year didn't

Kiffin - won title other year didn't

Sarkisian - Won title, other years didn't

Golding - Won title , other years didn't

The others like O'brien (who I guess got shut out) did just as well as all the "winners" in their own "down" years.

This history shows, no matter the coaches, the performance has been the same - basically a coin flip (like a two point conversion , or a knuckle ball field goal) from winning a title. Different coaches but same elite talent.
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