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re: Who still thinks Tua is the problem in Miami?
Posted on 2/2/22 at 11:51 am to Diego Ricardo
Posted on 2/2/22 at 11:51 am to Diego Ricardo
Yeah, I'm also skeptical about the connection between "Flores thinks he was discriminated against" and "Clearly, Flores was the sole problem in Miami the whole time."
Flores and a lot of other minority coaching candidates find themselves in a weird situation because actual racial discrimination in hiring for NFL head coaching positions is going to be tough to prove.
Just like in most hiring outside the NFL, these decisions are probably partly based on merit, partly based on who the candidate knows, and to some degree influenced by the biases of whoever makes the final call. In a situation where there are only thirty-two teams to work for, the "who you know" part probably plays a significant role.
Flores and a lot of other minority coaching candidates find themselves in a weird situation because actual racial discrimination in hiring for NFL head coaching positions is going to be tough to prove.
Just like in most hiring outside the NFL, these decisions are probably partly based on merit, partly based on who the candidate knows, and to some degree influenced by the biases of whoever makes the final call. In a situation where there are only thirty-two teams to work for, the "who you know" part probably plays a significant role.
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Posted on 2/2/22 at 12:31 pm to Chuck Barris
I think it's amazing how BFlo is getting trashed like this. Players who know him and have played for him say the opposite.
Crazy how much people who don't know you can have such a sharp perception of you.
Why?
Crazy how much people who don't know you can have such a sharp perception of you.
Why?
Posted on 2/2/22 at 12:36 pm to YStar
quote:
Why?
My guess is he supposedly trashed Tua and didn’t like him. Also, people don’t like the Rooney Rule. Outside of that, I don’t know unless there is something I missed.
Posted on 2/2/22 at 1:07 pm to Diego Ricardo
Re-read your own comment. The lawsuit is without merit in regards to Daboll, there’s nothing in law or within the Rooney rule that the team performing the interview can’t decide on a candidate before all interviews are done. Not to mention that Daboll was the clear hire because the GM moved over from the same team (Bills). The Giants had also already interviewed two minority candidates (one internal, which didn’t count for the Rooney rule counter) so good luck claiming malicious intent. The criticism of the Rooney rule in the past is that the Daboll situation essentially makes some of these unnecessary interviews that are done to fulfill the rule.
Also, piggybacking off your record comment, Flores had a carousel of coaches coming in and out of the team. There’s videos of players telling Tua on the sidelines “it’s the coaches, not you”. There was two years of noncommittal statements by Flores on top of weird roster management (“too injured to play because of a banged up finger”, suddenly throws for 300 after Brisset gets injured). There’s reports Flores wouldn’t even speak to certain coaches for extended periods of time and you had the entire offense+some defensive players liking tweets on his firing. There were other reports that he had “his guys” who received favorable treatment compared to everyone else. He just went through a full head coaching interview search and didn’t get a single job of eight open ones.
There’s more smoke to Flores being an arse than there is him being thrown out unfairly. At the very least that team degraded into a heavily toxic situation where players were picking sides, and that’s going to be a stain on his resume because of how it degraded under him. If the intent is to switch the angle towards opportunity, it’s going to be incredibly hard to argue a racial situation given the statistics and demographics of young coaches. Most NFL coaches didn’t play professionally or at higher levels whatsoever so an angle of league is X% race but Y% for coaches won’t really work out too much.
Also, piggybacking off your record comment, Flores had a carousel of coaches coming in and out of the team. There’s videos of players telling Tua on the sidelines “it’s the coaches, not you”. There was two years of noncommittal statements by Flores on top of weird roster management (“too injured to play because of a banged up finger”, suddenly throws for 300 after Brisset gets injured). There’s reports Flores wouldn’t even speak to certain coaches for extended periods of time and you had the entire offense+some defensive players liking tweets on his firing. There were other reports that he had “his guys” who received favorable treatment compared to everyone else. He just went through a full head coaching interview search and didn’t get a single job of eight open ones.
There’s more smoke to Flores being an arse than there is him being thrown out unfairly. At the very least that team degraded into a heavily toxic situation where players were picking sides, and that’s going to be a stain on his resume because of how it degraded under him. If the intent is to switch the angle towards opportunity, it’s going to be incredibly hard to argue a racial situation given the statistics and demographics of young coaches. Most NFL coaches didn’t play professionally or at higher levels whatsoever so an angle of league is X% race but Y% for coaches won’t really work out too much.
This post was edited on 2/2/22 at 1:13 pm
Posted on 2/2/22 at 2:00 pm to UhOhOreo
quote:
Re-read your own comment. The lawsuit is without merit in regards to Daboll, there’s nothing in law or within the Rooney rule that the team performing the interview can’t decide on a candidate before all interviews are done. Not to mention that Daboll was the clear hire because the GM moved over from the same team (Bills). The Giants had also already interviewed two minority candidates (one internal, which didn’t count for the Rooney rule counter) so good luck claiming malicious intent. The criticism of the Rooney rule in the past is that the Daboll situation essentially makes some of these unnecessary interviews that are done to fulfill the rule.
Also, piggybacking off your record comment, Flores had a carousel of coaches coming in and out of the team. There’s videos of players telling Tua on the sidelines “it’s the coaches, not you”. There was two years of noncommittal statements by Flores on top of weird roster management (“too injured to play because of a banged up finger”, suddenly throws for 300 after Brisset gets injured). There’s reports Flores wouldn’t even speak to certain coaches for extended periods of time and you had the entire offense+some defensive players liking tweets on his firing. There were other reports that he had “his guys” who received favorable treatment compared to everyone else. He just went through a full head coaching interview search and didn’t get a single job of eight open ones.
There’s more smoke to Flores being an arse than there is him being thrown out unfairly. At the very least that team degraded into a heavily toxic situation where players were picking sides, and that’s going to be a stain on his resume because of how it degraded under him. If the intent is to switch the angle towards opportunity, it’s going to be incredibly hard to argue a racial situation given the statistics and demographics of young coaches. Most NFL coaches didn’t play professionally or at higher levels whatsoever so an angle of league is X% race but Y% for coaches won’t really work out too much.
I agree with your interpretation of the Rooney rule and think that will damn his case against the NFL. Perhaps I used merit incorrectly but I simply think he has enough there to sue them and a court to not throw it out. There will very likely be a trial on this matter but the NFL will essentially argue that the Rooney rule was really about providing "publicity" for black coaches and not a promise to consider them for the opening itself.
Posted on 2/2/22 at 3:30 pm to Diego Ricardo
Also the biggest issue with these allegations will not be the racism stuff
LINK
"Stephen Ross was reported in Nov. 2019 to have invested into a sports gambling startup as part of a $17.5M fundraising round. [...] If an NFL team owner is investing in sports gambling while incentivizing his head coach to lose games, that's a gigantic issue."
That's an FBI problem not some civil court proceeding problem.
LINK
"Stephen Ross was reported in Nov. 2019 to have invested into a sports gambling startup as part of a $17.5M fundraising round. [...] If an NFL team owner is investing in sports gambling while incentivizing his head coach to lose games, that's a gigantic issue."
That's an FBI problem not some civil court proceeding problem.
Posted on 2/2/22 at 3:36 pm to TizzyT4theUofA
quote:
My guess is he supposedly trashed Tua and didn’t like him. Also, people don’t like the Rooney Rule. Outside of that, I don’t know unless there is something I missed.
He did not get along with the GM and ownership. They had a poor relationship from the get go. I don't know all of the details, but it's not going to be much of a case if the Dolphins can simply prove that management and ownership don't get along with the coach, so they fired him and it was nothing beyond that.
Regardless of whether it's a good or bad thing, that's totally legal. They'll have to satisfy certain contractual obligations, but that's it. Unless the Dolphins are idiots (which is possible) they have everything thoroughly documented that led to the decision. Anything that can't be corroborated by another party (like losing for a payout) is hearsay. No paper trail, it didn't happen.
As for the Giants scenario, until Daboll has signed his contract, he's not technically hired. So, the Giants can continue to meet with candidates even though the role had been promised to someone else. They can simply say that the information that Belichick received was their take on the interview and a perceived intent to hire, not an official decision. Now if they can prove that they had a signed contract in hand when Flores met for his interview, then he has a case. Daboll isn't the coach until contract negotiations are complete and the papers are signed.
Posted on 2/2/22 at 3:38 pm to Diego Ricardo
That could be a huge problem for Ross. So much that he might be forced to sell the franchise.
Posted on 2/2/22 at 3:41 pm to Diego Ricardo
quote:
"Stephen Ross was reported in Nov. 2019 to have invested into a sports gambling startup as part of a $17.5M fundraising round. [...] If an NFL team owner is investing in sports gambling while incentivizing his head coach to lose games, that's a gigantic issue."
That's an FBI problem not some civil court proceeding problem.
Yeah, this goes directly against NFL policy as well. You can't have any interest in betting if you are involved in ownership. The Rooney family were the longtime owners of horse racing tracks and off track betting parlors. They had to sell off most of those business years ago to be compliant with league policy.
Posted on 2/2/22 at 3:47 pm to RolltidePA
No, Ross is fine with investing in gambling. If there's anything to the tanking stuff he might go down. Back to the gambling several other sports owners have done this same with no issues. LINK
Posted on 2/2/22 at 5:00 pm to Diego Ricardo
quote:
He essentially was just interviewed to check the box next to an affirmative action policy created by the NFL and was not a serious candidate for the job.
They also interviewed two other black coaches for the job before they hired Daboll.
EDIT: And the GM that fired him is black.
This post was edited on 2/2/22 at 5:03 pm
Posted on 2/2/22 at 5:02 pm to Diego Ricardo
I agree his suit has merit and think the texts were not a case of a mistake. If anyone thinks that NFL does not really stand for National Fix League then you can also believe the owner did not bribe the coach to tank. Not surprised at all. All you have to do is look at refs. I bet some have some nice funding under table from NFL. What would happen if drafts were in college?
Posted on 2/2/22 at 5:48 pm to Diego Ricardo
Belichick sending the text to the wrong guy is hilarious.
As for Tua...I wish he could get out of Miami. Both Flores and the owner sound like idiots. I wish he could end up with the Saints, if they get a decent coach.
As for Tua...I wish he could get out of Miami. Both Flores and the owner sound like idiots. I wish he could end up with the Saints, if they get a decent coach.
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