Started By
Message
re: OT: Alabama Coronavirus Thread (see link in OP for case numbers and death totals in AL)
Posted on 4/19/20 at 10:54 am to bamameister
Posted on 4/19/20 at 10:54 am to bamameister
quote:
You don't have to "like" them to respect the "scoreboard."
Coach Bryant would approve this message.
Something tells me he wouldn't approve of Auburn getting to pick their score.
1
Posted on 4/19/20 at 10:58 am to Robot Santa
quote:
Something tells me he wouldn't approve of Auburn getting to pick their score.
He said he would be fine with it. They could just throw up anything they felt like, and he would "respect the scoreboard", falsified data and all.
Posted on 4/19/20 at 11:01 am to 1BamaRTR
quote:
I would also like to point out it’s not just lying. They most definitely counted their deaths differently than the US and many European countries.
China is absurdly crowded. No matter how many temporary hospitals they build, they have much lower rate of doctors, nurses, and hospitals per capita than the US and other European countries. There’s no way their hospitals didn’t get more overwhelmed. Now you say quarantine worked but they didn’t quarantine the entire country right off the bat
If somebody died in China who may have had the virus but it was never confirmed, they’re not going to waste resources testing a dead body. They’d just mark it down as pneumonia or other and move on.
You're still theorizing. I've got to make decisions for me and my family in real-time. And conspiracy theories wouldn't bring me any closer to what's in my best interest now. No governor or politician will tell me when I get out of my foxhole. China and COVID-19 will no doubt make a great Hollywood who done it someday. It's still not my point.
The unanimity and speed that allowed China to lockdown their infrastructure can not be duplicated in this country. The immediate push and pull between the Federal and State branches is always a guarantee. It's the same age-old American story back to state rights and the Civil War. The more unified any entity is in their singular endeavor, whether it be secular, religious, political, or sports, the results will always be more favorable and will enjoy greater success.
My youth was dominated by just such a strategy following Alabama. We had a coach back them who constantly talked about "oneness." Everything in lockstep. That was mostly why he could take "his and beat yours and take yours and beat his."
Time tested strategy indeed.
Posted on 4/19/20 at 11:13 am to Robot Santa
quote:
Leaders of organizations are supposed to do what is best for the organization as well as its members. If everything could be resolved by a democratic vote they would have no function.
In our political system, if we don’t have leaders do what we want we get to change that leadership every 4 years or so. In a typical American Protestant church, that chance to make the change can happen at any time. One special called business meeting and it is done. In that environment decisions about things like filing a lawsuit are absolutely by democratic vote.
quote:
Sitting in church pews with 75 other people for an hour or more is more akin to a movie theater. The only way to maintain consistent social distancing in a movie theater would be to close every other row and keep 3 seats in between each patron.
I get what you are saying but just FYI many churches don’t use pews now. They use chairs so the sanctuary can be reconfigured as needed. It is as easy as leaving one chair and picking up the next three.
As to the lawsuit, many Christians have felt for a very long time that religious rights and freedoms are under assault. It is really easy to feel that way when cities like Greenville, Mississippi sent the police to disperse and issued citations to a drive-in church service while allowing the Sonic just down the road to operate as normal. Sometimes you simply must draw a line in the sand and say no more. These congregations likely feel like this is that time.
Eta- I would like to see them win the suit then don’t hold in person services. I doubt they would do it, but that would protect the principal while also not possibly endangering the congregants.
This post was edited on 4/19/20 at 11:16 am
Posted on 4/19/20 at 11:22 am to JustGetItRight
ALABAMA DEPARTMENT OF PUBLIC HEALTH SAYS ‘OUTSIDE ENTITY’ GAVE IT INACCURATE CORONAVIRUS NUMBERS
quote:
In a series of tweets, the department says "an outside entity mistakenly marked (coronavirus) lab results as positive when in fact they were negative."
Numbers of postive cases in all of Alabama, and including counties such as Madison, now have dropped.
This post was edited on 4/19/20 at 11:25 am
Posted on 4/19/20 at 11:28 am to TideSaint
How’d you like to be the guy that had to call and say, um yeah, we fricked up the yes/no question. 
Posted on 4/19/20 at 11:42 am to TideSaint
quote:
ALABAMA DEPARTMENT OF PUBLIC HEALTH SAYS ‘OUTSIDE ENTITY’ GAVE IT INACCURATE CORONAVIRUS NUMBERS
I know we have a couple of posters here saying that the testing is reliable and abundant but I am still pretty skeptical.
A high percentage of the articles I read everyday that are either about or mention significant problems with testing. Couple this with the constant complaints with accuracy I hear around me in NY and it's alarming.
It's better than the disaster CDC started with but testing seems to be nowhere near what business leaders are saying is needed for most areas to get back up to speed successfully.
Posted on 4/19/20 at 11:45 am to JustGetItRight
quote:
In our political system, if we don’t have leaders do what we want we get to change that leadership every 4 years or so. In a typical American Protestant church, that chance to make the change can happen at any time. One special called business meeting and it is done. In that environment decisions about things like filing a lawsuit are absolutely by democratic vote.
Making decisions that you believe to be against the interests of the people you are tasked with leading, even if it is what they want, is pretty strong evidence of a lack of fitness to lead.
quote:
I get what you are saying but just FYI many churches don’t use pews now. They use chairs so the sanctuary can be reconfigured as needed. It is as easy as leaving one chair and picking up the next three.
The principle is the exact same regardless of the seating arrangement. It's the nature of the space, not whether you have individual chairs or benches. You have to keep people so far apart in such a small space that it renders the space practically useless.
quote:
As to the lawsuit, many Christians have felt for a very long time that religious rights and freedoms are under assault
What rights or freedoms have American Christians lost?
quote:
It is really easy to feel that way when cities like Greenville, Mississippi sent the police to disperse and issued citations to a drive-in church service while allowing the Sonic just down the road to operate as normal.
Reading the article it is pretty clear that that was a planned act of civil disobedience and that church is now being represented by the same organization representing the Kansas churches, which is bankrolled by the Prince and DeVos families. Almost as if all of this stuff is being coordinated.
Posted on 4/19/20 at 12:06 pm to bamameister
quote:
You're still theorizing. I've got to make decisions for me and my family in real-time. And conspiracy theories wouldn't bring me any closer to what's in my best interest now. No governor or politician will tell me when I get out of my foxhole. China and COVID-19 will no doubt make a great Hollywood who done it someday. It's still not my point.
You making decisions for you and your family has nothing to do with you wanting the government to turn totalitarian and do what China did. If anything something like that would hurt your family in the long run.
The only reason you know NY and NJ have so many cases and deaths is because they report it. If they don’t report it, you don’t know. Now you may say the health workers and people living there would report it but how would they know the numbers? How would they know how many people died at another hospital? How would they know how many people died in their homes if they were never brought to the hospital? How would they know how many poor or homeless died if they never came to the hospital? All they would be able to show is the hospitals being full, JUST like we were shown in China. Not actual numbers.
You seem to think a few hundred thousand more people dying means it would be noticeable. That’s like 0.2% of the population spread out over the whole country. It’s not unrealistic. It’s not like people would be dropping in the streets.
And what I said is not theorizing. China has a much, much lower rate of doctors, nurses, and hospitals per capita than any Western country. Remember they have 1.5 BILLION people. Now it’s logical to assume that they were just as overwhelmed if not more because of this compared to western nations that they’re somehow doing better than. It’s also a fact they didn’t lock down their country immediately so you can’t use that as an excuse. It’s also a fact they didn’t release their testing numbers. I doubt they even tested 1% of their population because that would be 15M tests.
So they have a history of lying and suppressing their own people, didn’t release their testing numbers, have several extremely crowded cities, have high numbers of their population that smoke and/or exposed to terrible smog, didn’t lockdown their major cities until after MILLIONS had already been traveling all over the country, and have very small numbers of doctors, nurses, and hospitals relative to their population, yet you believe their 82K cases?
You choose instead to ignore the intelligence agencies of other western countries and believe that of a totalitarian country.
Posted on 4/19/20 at 12:21 pm to Robot Santa
quote:
Making decisions that you believe to be against the interests of the people you are tasked with leading, even if it is what they want, is pretty strong evidence of a lack of fitness to lead.
You missed what I said. It isn’t about the leadership, it is about the body. When the congregation as a body says sue and the pastor says no, the congregation says put your keys on the table on your way out the door.
I’m going to just let the other discussion die. Not that I haven’t enjoyed it or feel like it has been respectful and courteous because it has been all of that. I just don’t want to risk derailing the thread.
Posted on 4/19/20 at 12:38 pm to JustGetItRight
Posted on 4/19/20 at 12:43 pm to Robot Santa
Churches are certainly a complicated issue in efforts to re-open the economy while preventing new local outbreaks that propel us backward instead of forward.
First, I imagine that a large percentage of church leaders are responsible enough to realize that crowded church services where everyone sits a few feet away for extended periods of time period -- not to mention mingling with neighbors since church is the main social gathering for most parishioners -- is among the most likely of ways to cause new outbreaks of cases.
However, it is a serious concern that a significant minority of church leaders count strongly among those trying to downplay the threat of the virus and even among the "no worse than the flu" or "it's a hoax" crowd. It becomes more concerning when you consider that many of the people who attend these churches are -- in my opinion -- a little too influenced by what their preachers along with some quite "extreme" talk radio or blogger types say. However, these are also the same people going out during the weekdays to do good deeds like bring groceries/dinners to older folks etc. Again, I hate to even say this, but there are a lot folks I know that are as well-intentioned as you can get but probably not the type to really analyze the "logic" or "science" of the distancing measures. I hate to see them urged to do things that are dangerous both for themselves and their communities.
The more we see initial results of differing distancing measures in various places--and this is just my two cents -- the better arguments can seemingly be made that many limitations on smaller shops, jobs that don't group a lot of people closely together have probably not made the most difference.
On the other hand, it seems fairly clear that places with success stamping out spread were the ones with early and extreme measures against larger gatherings (the "No Group Gatherings of 25" or "No Group Gatherings of 10" type orders).
It's somewhat safe to say that most documented occurrences of large-scale community spread (aside from obvious first responders, health workers etc) have been associated with these type events:
1) Church gatherings including funerals and weddings. The Orthodox Jewish Communities here in NYC have seen extremely high % of explosions traced to their refusal to limit church services.
2) Crowded bars / concerts / parties. I personally had about 35 friends quarantined, many who contracted the virus (about 90% of people I know who contracted the virus) all from one band show in mid-March where a girl left with a fever and tested positive.
3) Workers at factories without potential for distancing
I probably tend toward the extreme on a lot of "personal freedom" issues but also try to always temper that with "as long as they don't hurt anyone else". That second part certainly complicates this.
I would love to see church leaders simply act responsibly and lead their communities to opening everything back up without causing more harm than good in trying rush group gatherings back but that may be too much to ask.
First, I imagine that a large percentage of church leaders are responsible enough to realize that crowded church services where everyone sits a few feet away for extended periods of time period -- not to mention mingling with neighbors since church is the main social gathering for most parishioners -- is among the most likely of ways to cause new outbreaks of cases.
However, it is a serious concern that a significant minority of church leaders count strongly among those trying to downplay the threat of the virus and even among the "no worse than the flu" or "it's a hoax" crowd. It becomes more concerning when you consider that many of the people who attend these churches are -- in my opinion -- a little too influenced by what their preachers along with some quite "extreme" talk radio or blogger types say. However, these are also the same people going out during the weekdays to do good deeds like bring groceries/dinners to older folks etc. Again, I hate to even say this, but there are a lot folks I know that are as well-intentioned as you can get but probably not the type to really analyze the "logic" or "science" of the distancing measures. I hate to see them urged to do things that are dangerous both for themselves and their communities.
The more we see initial results of differing distancing measures in various places--and this is just my two cents -- the better arguments can seemingly be made that many limitations on smaller shops, jobs that don't group a lot of people closely together have probably not made the most difference.
On the other hand, it seems fairly clear that places with success stamping out spread were the ones with early and extreme measures against larger gatherings (the "No Group Gatherings of 25" or "No Group Gatherings of 10" type orders).
It's somewhat safe to say that most documented occurrences of large-scale community spread (aside from obvious first responders, health workers etc) have been associated with these type events:
1) Church gatherings including funerals and weddings. The Orthodox Jewish Communities here in NYC have seen extremely high % of explosions traced to their refusal to limit church services.
2) Crowded bars / concerts / parties. I personally had about 35 friends quarantined, many who contracted the virus (about 90% of people I know who contracted the virus) all from one band show in mid-March where a girl left with a fever and tested positive.
3) Workers at factories without potential for distancing
I probably tend toward the extreme on a lot of "personal freedom" issues but also try to always temper that with "as long as they don't hurt anyone else". That second part certainly complicates this.
I would love to see church leaders simply act responsibly and lead their communities to opening everything back up without causing more harm than good in trying rush group gatherings back but that may be too much to ask.
This post was edited on 4/19/20 at 3:52 pm
Posted on 4/19/20 at 1:08 pm to bamameister
quote:
If you were only smart enough to realize it's not my point so typing a war and peace novel on the subject is fruitless.
You are trying to praise China for “stopping” the virus. Believing their numbers and saying that they didn’t have mass deaths essentially compared to other countries. You were attributing that to their extreme measures taken and said you would prefer methods like that. Finding it impossible to believe that they may have already had those mass deaths. Forgetting that it started in China a few months before everyone else so of course things have really slowed down there.
Posted on 4/19/20 at 1:57 pm to 1BamaRTR
Cool. Another three pages debating China’s response, which was shitty, to avoid admitting our own response has been shitty as well.
This post was edited on 4/19/20 at 1:59 pm
Posted on 4/19/20 at 2:01 pm to 1BamaRTR
quote:
You are trying to praise China for “stopping” the virus. Believing their numbers and saying that they didn’t have mass deaths essentially compared to other countries. You were attributing that to their extreme measures taken and said you would prefer methods like that. Finding it impossible to believe that they may have already had those mass deaths. Forgetting that it started in China a few months before everyone else so of course things have really slowed down there.
Unless you own a shovel and have an amazing opportunity, you are theorizing that China has these mass graves.
Let's suppose you uncovered this great conspiracy, how does that help us with our strategy, in this country, now? How does that knowledge change the fact that we are still handling this crisis like the Keystone Cops?
I quoted the dynamics of the past week or so in South Dakota, a rural state supposedly more immune by its population and geolocation as a hotspot. What did mixed political signals do for so many working in the plant? For one, the company had the blessings of the state to continue to churn out America's pork consumption. In that we in this country would rather "suggest" that the American people do what's right and exercise there own caution as a free moral agent and at the same time regulate their greed, it might have been wishful thinking from the start. However, in the name of decency and some semblance of common sense, expecting the company heads to at least provide adequate protection with "mask" and other "tools" necessary to protect themselves should have gone without saying and certainly expected. It did not happen, did it? Workers were on record as voicing their objections weeks earlier. Workers were not allowed to practice the proper social distancing and the only thing that can be concluded is that this company's hubris pride was begging for it. Congratulations!
Regardless of politics, what could have happened? They (bosses) could have considered staying open for business and being such a vital cog for America's meat production was a blessing and a heavy responsibility and gone out of their way to keep their investment (workers) as safe as humanly possible.
Instead, it's just another lesson about human nature. This is what you get when you expect people to just do the right thing. Now South Dakota is initiated into the plague and the pork plant is CLOSED.
China obviously doesn't believe in the altruistic nature of their citizens near as much.
Posted on 4/19/20 at 2:01 pm to The Spleen
Coming from the guy that was involved in several pages of thread derailment
You want to talk about something more relevant? Than do it. No one is asking you to read these posts.
You want to talk about something more relevant? Than do it. No one is asking you to read these posts.
Posted on 4/19/20 at 2:08 pm to bamameister
quote:
Unless you own a shovel and have an amazing opportunity, you are theorizing that China has these mass graves.
Doesn’t mean the only other option is believing what they say. Again you have a country with a long history of lying and logic suggests they should have more cases yet just because there isn’t concrete evidence, you believe they’re telling the truth.
My issue is that you were arguing for a totalitarian approach just because China claims they did far better than any other major western nation. Don’t bring them up if you want come across as believable or serious.
Posted on 4/19/20 at 2:15 pm to 1BamaRTR
quote:
My issue is that you were arguing for a totalitarian approach just because China claims they did far better than any other major western nation. Don’t bring them up if you want come across as believable or serious.
Wrong. But I guess you can continue to frame the discussion if you like. It worked for Evolution.
China wouldn't be so scary if you left your emotional predisposition at the door. That's a YOU problem.
Posted on 4/19/20 at 2:17 pm to 1BamaRTR
quote:
Coming from the guy that was involved in several pages of thread derailment
I wasn’t complaining about thread derailment. That’s for other posters to do when I point out our own government’s response has been as shitty as China’s was.
Posted on 4/19/20 at 2:30 pm to bamameister
quote:
Wrong. But I guess you can continue to frame the discussion if you like. It worked for Evolution.
It’s not wrong. It’s all what YOU said. You brought up China because they were getting praised. You were doubting that their numbers possibly weren’t true. You said you would prefer a totalitarian government’s response to handling this
quote:
China wouldn't be so scary if you left your emotional predisposition at the door. That's a YOU problem.
Are you doubting China is a totalitarian country? You actually 100% believe a country with 1.5B people somehow has few cases and FAR fewer deaths than countries with 40-60M people. China wants to be scary. They want to assume power over the US. It’s not a conspiracy. The US is a superpower and lies and does messed up shite too.
This post was edited on 4/19/20 at 2:33 pm
Page 129 of 162
Latest Alabama News
Popular
Back to top
Follow SECRant for SEC Football News