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re: Alabama Board Coronavirus Thread
Posted on 7/8/20 at 6:25 pm to Robot Santa
Posted on 7/8/20 at 6:25 pm to Robot Santa
quote:
I don't really know what else you'd call this.
I'm telling you what has to happen for us as a society to get over this pandemic. I'm not promoting it like a Big Mac.
Are you seriously considering changing your entire life for the foreseeable future to avoid something that doesn't affect 99.9% of us?
Be selfish and think of your child. Hell, think of every child across America right now. How are their parents supposed to put food on the table if they can't work because they can't go to school?
I don't know about you, but this isn't just about wearing a mask to the grocery store or getting Applebee's to go. It's our entire way of life. Our economy. Everything.
I'm sorry, but this has gone far beyond ridiculous already.
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Posted on 7/8/20 at 6:29 pm to The Spleen
quote:
There was a point where I think we could have gotten back close to normal, but that would have required an aggressive testing, tracing, and isolating program nationwide. That never happened, so here we are.
So what's the solution?
We aren't getting a vaccine so the only way to move forward is to let everyone get it and treat them the best we can. Period. A lot of people will certainly die and a lot more will have serious issues moving forward.
It's not disappearing so if you're at risk of dying from it now, then you're going to be at risk a year from now.
Posted on 7/8/20 at 7:18 pm to TideSaint
This is my list of scenarios where I think it's so "inevitable" that it infects everyone that we just need to completely surrender:
1. As soon as all of Europe, Japan, S Korea, Canada, Australia/New Zealand etc also clearly show that their efforts to reduce it have been completely futile
(by futile I mean not even greatly reducing deaths and severe cases by postponing infections until better treatments are discovered).
That's it, the complete list.
Until that happens, I will not admit that while so many other countries can control it to various degrees but, for some reason, America cannot and so we must declare an unmitigated surrender.
1. As soon as all of Europe, Japan, S Korea, Canada, Australia/New Zealand etc also clearly show that their efforts to reduce it have been completely futile
(by futile I mean not even greatly reducing deaths and severe cases by postponing infections until better treatments are discovered).
That's it, the complete list.
Until that happens, I will not admit that while so many other countries can control it to various degrees but, for some reason, America cannot and so we must declare an unmitigated surrender.
This post was edited on 7/8/20 at 10:25 pm
Posted on 7/8/20 at 8:07 pm to The Spleen
I got 3 little grandchildren set up for homeschooling. The lack of gameplan in general by the school system guarantees that business, as usual, is going to be an unmitigated disaster. Frankly, we read these tea leaves a couple of months ago.
Posted on 7/8/20 at 8:28 pm to bamameister
In NC the state has required every school system and charter schools to prepare for three option. Traditional, hybrid, and completely online. Right now the traditional is looking at less capacity with teaching in cohorts. Wake County(Raleigh) has already announced 3 cohort system. Week 1 cohort A goes, while B & C stay home. Week 2 cohort B goes, while A & C stay home. Week 3 cohort C goes, A & B stay home. This will allow for a mandatory quarantine for 14 days for each cohort and reduces capacity to 33% while in the classroom. Many counties are looking at K-8 traditional with a cohort or hybrid option and HS completely online.
Tonight we answer a survey for our charter school for plan B the hybrid option. Which includes either specific grades or cohorts attending M/W or T/TH with Friday completely remote, or morning and afternoon cohorts.
To be honest though in NC with the current status I see all remote in the fall and at best kids returning to classroom in January.
Tonight we answer a survey for our charter school for plan B the hybrid option. Which includes either specific grades or cohorts attending M/W or T/TH with Friday completely remote, or morning and afternoon cohorts.
To be honest though in NC with the current status I see all remote in the fall and at best kids returning to classroom in January.
Posted on 7/8/20 at 8:38 pm to TideWarrior
In regards to what TS said I understand where he is coming from. I will have 5 children attending school in the fall from preschool to 6th grade. I am at high risk due to some exposure while in the military. But my concern is more for the children which saddens me so much that so many conversations seem to forget about them and how devastating it is on them.
Maybe the best option is to take head on and treat it no different then the flu in a sense. I have yet to see any research where anyone is at high risk to get it twice. A kid gets sick keep them home but no need to quarantine the rest. If a mask is good enough to prevent what so many think now I see no issue why everyone at school can not do the same but understand the younger they are the harder if required, which NC is not for anyone under the age of 11. In regards to sanitizing that should already be a priority with or without the virus.
Maybe the best option is to take head on and treat it no different then the flu in a sense. I have yet to see any research where anyone is at high risk to get it twice. A kid gets sick keep them home but no need to quarantine the rest. If a mask is good enough to prevent what so many think now I see no issue why everyone at school can not do the same but understand the younger they are the harder if required, which NC is not for anyone under the age of 11. In regards to sanitizing that should already be a priority with or without the virus.
Posted on 7/8/20 at 8:47 pm to TideSaint
quote:
We aren't getting a vaccine so the only way to move forward is to let everyone get it and treat them the best we can. Period. A lot of people will certainly die and a lot more will have serious issues moving forward.
That’s not a solution, that’s giving up and is antithetical to the American spirit.
But maybe it is the way to go since we’ve already ceded being the leader In the fight to a host of other countries.
Posted on 7/8/20 at 8:53 pm to The Spleen
quote:
That’s not a solution, that’s giving up and is antithetical to the American spirit.
But cowering in fear inside our homes is the American spirit?
They've been working on a vaccine for AIDS for almost 40 years. They can work on one until they are blue in the face. That doesn't mean they'll figure one out.
quote:
But maybe it is the way to go since we’ve already ceded being the leader In the fight to a host of other countries.
Other countries aren't testing nearly as much as we are. Not even close. What exactly could our government do to make you happy in this situation?
Posted on 7/8/20 at 10:04 pm to TideSaint
Here’s the problem with just putting our heads down and meeting it head on. We still don’t know the full extent of this disease. It’s less than a year into this process and we are still finding new ways it causes damage almost daily. If this were just an upper respiratory disease that might cause a lot of pneumonia and more deaths than normal, ok, let’s take our chances. But it’s not. It can and does cause life changing damage to multiple organ systems and most of it is permanent. And the list of effects continues to grow.
Maybe we won’t develop a vaccine but there’s a lot of hope, promise, and money being thrown at some very possible candidates. But even if we don’t, other companies are developing monoclonal antibodies and antivirals and investigating existing drugs as possible treatments. And most of the early leaders are talking about knowing something by the end of 2020. I think we have to continue doing the best we can to slow the spread and treat the sick for the next 5 months and see where we are. And for all we know someone could announce tomorrow they have discovered that quinine or something just as crazy cures it.
We have to live our lives, but COVID is too dangerous and too mysterious to just meet head on. We have to learn more to safely defeat this thing.
Maybe we won’t develop a vaccine but there’s a lot of hope, promise, and money being thrown at some very possible candidates. But even if we don’t, other companies are developing monoclonal antibodies and antivirals and investigating existing drugs as possible treatments. And most of the early leaders are talking about knowing something by the end of 2020. I think we have to continue doing the best we can to slow the spread and treat the sick for the next 5 months and see where we are. And for all we know someone could announce tomorrow they have discovered that quinine or something just as crazy cures it.
We have to live our lives, but COVID is too dangerous and too mysterious to just meet head on. We have to learn more to safely defeat this thing.
Posted on 7/8/20 at 10:07 pm to phil4bama
quote:
Here’s the problem with just putting our heads down and meeting it head on. We still don’t know the full extent of this disease. It’s less than a year into this process and we are still finding new ways it causes damage almost daily. If this were just an upper respiratory disease that might cause a lot of pneumonia and more deaths than normal, ok, let’s take our chances. But it’s not. It can and does cause life changing damage to multiple organ systems and most of it is permanent. And the list of effects continues to grow.
So how long are you personally willing to wait for our society to go back to normal? Better yet, how long is your daughter willing to wait? Her life is being thrown completely out of whack and her education experience totally destroyed over this. Again, it's okay to be selfish when our children's development is suffering.
quote:
We have to live our lives, but COVID is too dangerous and too mysterious to just meet head on. We have to learn more to safely defeat this thing.
Is it really that dangerous? The data certainly doesn't support your statement.
ETA: This isn't aimed at you specifically, Phil, but I do find it comical we have individuals on this board lamenting on the personal headaches they will suffer if their kids can't go to school in the Fall, yet they continue to lecture the rest of us on how selfish we are for wanting to return to normalcy.
This post was edited on 7/8/20 at 10:14 pm
Posted on 7/8/20 at 10:11 pm to TideSaint
quote:
Other countries aren't testing nearly as much as we are. Not even close. What exactly could our government do to make you happy in this situation?
There are actually a lot of countries that have tested a similar percentage of the population as us (UK, France --really most of Europe-- Canada, Australia) and quite a few that have tested more (UK, Spain, Portugal, South Korea, many Middle eastern countries).
The thing with testing is that it's possible to do less when you do a better job of controlling the outbreak. When you simply have no idea if large amounts of people have it or not, that's when testing is amplified. To, obviously, find those people to keep them from spreading it.
It's a flat cop out that the USA is "just testing more" since it's no longer necessary that Germany tests right now to the same degree they did before they got it under control.
What the government should be doing is simply answered by looking at all the countries dealing with it a lot more successfully than we did/are (Germany (most of Europe now actually) Canada ect and considering the differences.
Then looking at the countries like the UK and Brazil that are in our sorry boat and considering the similarities.
If the American spirit is to say we just can't do it as well as Canada can so let's just give up and too bad for people with diabetes or heart problems or who are just old, then I certainly don't want any of that spirit.
Posted on 7/8/20 at 10:21 pm to TideSaint
quote:
Is it really that dangerous? The data certainly doesn't support your statement
I think it is, not because it is deadly, but because it can cause insidious permanent damage to who knows what? You can’t treat or prevent something you don’t know. So far we know of lung damage, vascular damage, blood clots, neurological damage, dermatological damage, cardiac, liver, and kidney damage just to name a few. If we’re going to try a full frontal assault, I at least want to know what I’m up against.
Posted on 7/8/20 at 10:26 pm to wm72
quote:
There are actually a lot of countries that have tested a similar percentage of the population as us (UK, France --really most of Europe-- Canada, Australia) and quite a few that have tested more (UK, Spain, Portugal, South Korea, many Middle eastern countries).
Only China has tested more people than us. We have tested 17 Million more people than Russia who has the 3rd most tests. LINK
quote:
If the American spirit is to say we just can't do it as well as Canada can so let's just give up and too bad for people with diabetes or heart problems or who are just old, then I certainly don't want any of that spirit.
Canada's population is less than California's. They also don't celebrate morbid obesity. Perhaps we should cancel this culture of embracing unhealthy lifestyles and our death rates would go down.
Posted on 7/8/20 at 10:28 pm to phil4bama
quote:
I think it is, not because it is deadly, but because it can cause insidious permanent damage to who knows what? You can’t treat or prevent something you don’t know. So far we know of lung damage, vascular damage, blood clots, neurological damage, dermatological damage, cardiac, liver, and kidney damage just to name a few. If we’re going to try a full frontal assault, I at least want to know what I’m up against.
Fair enough.
What about the rest of the 99% who are completely asymptomatic and show zero signs of damage?
But I do find it interesting you completely ignored my comments about your daughter and her education experience.
This post was edited on 7/8/20 at 10:31 pm
Posted on 7/8/20 at 10:29 pm to TideSaint
quote:
Only China has tested more people than us.
That’s another number of theirs that is probably bullshite. They’re claiming to have tested far more than the rest of the world combined. Yeah I know they started testing before everyone else but they also didn’t put out these “official” testing numbers till pretty recently.
Posted on 7/8/20 at 10:31 pm to 1BamaRTR
quote:
That’s another number of theirs that is probably bullshite. They’re claiming to have tested far more than the rest of the world combined. Yeah I know they started testing before everyone else but they also didn’t put out these “official” testing numbers till pretty recently.
Oh, I know.
They are completely full of shite.
Posted on 7/8/20 at 10:44 pm to TideSaint
quote:
Only China has tested more people than us.
I said percentages. A vast majority of first world countries have tested somewhere between 80k to 200k per million residents so far: Spain 122k, UK 168, Italy 100k, Canada 80k. . . The US has tested 119K per million so far. China has done the most total tests but only around 70k per million.
Most countries are beginning to decrease testing because, completely unlike us, their positive cases are falling.
quote:
Canada's population is less than California's. They also don't celebrate morbid obesity. Perhaps we should cancel this culture of embracing unhealthy lifestyles and our death rates would go down.
I said percentages. Canada's response to this has been much different than ours in so many respects and it has worked a lot better.
(Not interested in side tracking the subject to America's generally third world level health and overall health care catastrophe but, yes, it does certainly play a part. Rampant obesity is merely the tip of that iceberg.)
On the original subject though, most first world countries have done a lot better getting everyone on the same page and containing the virus. I'm not sure their economies or lifestyles have been so much negatively affected than ours either in doing what they needed to do.
This post was edited on 7/8/20 at 11:22 pm
Posted on 7/8/20 at 10:52 pm to wm72
quote:
Most countries are beginning to decrease testing because, completely unlike us, their positive cases are falling.
I highly doubt other countries are forging numbers to increase revenue like some of our hospitals are.
The state of Texas is counting potential contact as probable cases now. Not confirmed, probable.
Posted on 7/8/20 at 11:17 pm to TideSaint
quote:
I highly doubt other countries are forging numbers to increase revenue
I'm not sure I buy all the conspiracy theories of rampant faked testing though it is all certainly as disorganized as could be from the top down.
I'm also not sure I would make a blanket statement that only US hospitals and none in a European country would have any financial interest in caring for covid patients.
However, that our health care system is so broken to begin with compared to the rest of the first world could give some credence to your theory. It would certainly not be the first example where we can't trust any one here serving investors and stockholders to do the right thing.
This post was edited on 7/8/20 at 11:25 pm
Posted on 7/8/20 at 11:21 pm to TideSaint
quote:
Is it really that dangerous? The data certainly doesn't support your statement.
What data are you referring to? Because the death rate isn't the only data point that indicates how dangerous it is.
A lot of people are "recovering" on paper but not without life changing problems
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