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re: 2017-18 Alabama Basketball Season Thread: 20-16 (10-11)
Posted on 3/16/18 at 12:15 pm to dplo
Posted on 3/16/18 at 12:15 pm to dplo
quote:
Let’s not celebrate that they played well because Gene says it’s not that big of a deal!
What was the point of even saying this?
Except that is not at all what I said.
Providing possession% doesn't change that they played well, it helps identify the role they played on offense while stopping people from trying to directly compare ORTG between players with vastly different usage
For example, Sexton vs TAMU/AU/VaTech had 129/125/116 offensive rating on 34%/33%/40% possession possession.
A raw ORtg comparison to Smith's 178 ORTG or Hall's 201 ORTG would suggest that Smith or Hall were better offensive players vs TAMU/AU/VaTech than Sexton. Obviously that is not the case
By providing the possession%, it helps identify that both Hall/Smith had great performances as supporting cast on offense. That is cause to celebrate.
I provided the possession% to ensure that the proper message was relayed so that the stat was not misinterpreted.
Getting a 178/201 is extremely impressive even on 8/12% possession%. I don't and didn't dispute that
This post was edited on 3/16/18 at 12:29 pm
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Posted on 3/16/18 at 12:26 pm to dplo
I must agree as one of Avery’s harshest critics, he’s shown much improvement since the tournaments started. I can point to specific situations I don’t agree with but overall, the team has been much better prepared.
I also agree IMHO, we have to play on the edge of out of control again to have a chance against Nova. Out-athlete them. Make them run the floor. But we’ve got to cut down on the stupid mistakes. It’s one thing to push the envelope, it’s another to throw up a prayer like Ingram’s failed alley-oop attempt to Hall I think and the foolish long inbound pass to Collin that he barely corralled. Considering the game situation at the time, those could have reversed the tide in a terrible way.
I’m so happy it worked out for us and we got a win in the tourney. As I posted last night, the season is officially a success, everything else from here is just gravy. Now, let’s go bust some brackets!!
I also agree IMHO, we have to play on the edge of out of control again to have a chance against Nova. Out-athlete them. Make them run the floor. But we’ve got to cut down on the stupid mistakes. It’s one thing to push the envelope, it’s another to throw up a prayer like Ingram’s failed alley-oop attempt to Hall I think and the foolish long inbound pass to Collin that he barely corralled. Considering the game situation at the time, those could have reversed the tide in a terrible way.
I’m so happy it worked out for us and we got a win in the tourney. As I posted last night, the season is officially a success, everything else from here is just gravy. Now, let’s go bust some brackets!!
Posted on 3/16/18 at 12:30 pm to phil4bama
quote:
Considering the game situation at the time, those could have reversed the tide in a terrible way.
ISWYDT
This post was edited on 3/16/18 at 12:31 pm
Posted on 3/16/18 at 12:33 pm to phil4bama
Uh-oh, bad news from the injury report.
Collin is suffering from a tooth concussion and must clear dental protocol to play Saturday. They are doing everything they can to get him ready including cryo-brushing and flossing throughout the day. Word is if he doesn’t recover in time, he may have to play the game Saturday morning with a grille in place. Keep your fingers crossed.
Collin is suffering from a tooth concussion and must clear dental protocol to play Saturday. They are doing everything they can to get him ready including cryo-brushing and flossing throughout the day. Word is if he doesn’t recover in time, he may have to play the game Saturday morning with a grille in place. Keep your fingers crossed.
Posted on 3/16/18 at 12:43 pm to GenesChin
quote:
I'd point out that it was on 8% & 12% possession% though. Typically that would suggest their teammates put them in advantageous matchups/situations
I think Gene is merely pointing out that it was masterful coaching on Johnson's part to create these matchup opportunities.
Posted on 3/16/18 at 12:48 pm to wm72
quote:
I think Gene is merely pointing out that it was masterful coaching on Johnson's part to create these matchup opportunities.
Posted on 3/16/18 at 1:04 pm to GenesChin
quote:
A raw ORtg comparison to Smith's 178 ORTG or Hall's 201 ORTG would suggest that Smith or Hall were better offensive players vs TAMU/AU/VaTech than Sexton. Obviously that is not the case
Gotcha. So you felt the need to qualify the rating with more ratings/stats to ensure that we knew that Hall and Smith aren’t better offensive players than Sexton? How little do you think of our intelligence, Gene? Haha
Posted on 3/16/18 at 1:06 pm to dplo
Wish this game was a bit later, villanova is really good and it will take one hell of an effort by Bama in this one (Petty continuing to shoot well and not making our characteristic idiotic turnovers would help a lot).
Whatever way it goes, it will be a lot of fun.
Whatever way it goes, it will be a lot of fun.
Posted on 3/16/18 at 1:08 pm to Sneaky__Sally
I bet nobody loved the victory more than the band, one more free night in Pitsburgh. Let's Party! 
SEC 5-0
SEC 5-0
This post was edited on 3/16/18 at 1:22 pm
Posted on 3/16/18 at 1:37 pm to McGregor
To all those fussing about the early start, we hear you but remember this: just like in football, it’s very easy for the big favorite to come out and stink it up because they are flat and not used to playing that early and don’t take it seriously. The Jefferson Pilot game was a very good analogy and how many upsets did we see in those?
Posted on 3/16/18 at 1:45 pm to dplo
quote:
So you felt the need to qualify the rating with more ratings/stats
No, KenPom already segments the ORtg by possession%. It is something you (George) really should always include when using efficiency metrics
quote:
ensure that we knew that Hall and Smith aren’t better offensive players than Sexton?
I was giving the extreme example, but it also helps benchmark against Smith/Halls other games and their contribution/impact. The ORtg metric is meant to be paired with poss%, it isn't really a standalone
To not give poss% with ORTG would be like not giving 3FGA when giving out a 3FG shooting %. If I told you Sexton shot 100% 3FG in the game, you really don't get much from it since he could be 1-1 or 5-5
quote:
How little do you think of our intelligence, Gene? Haha
By not giving poss%, it is
In the TN game Hall had ~25% lower ORTG but on significantly higher poss%. So that 140 was way better game for Hall than the VT game
My point was more for George to include that so people don't just dismiss the stats as stupid which happens a lot
This post was edited on 3/16/18 at 2:02 pm
Posted on 3/16/18 at 1:50 pm to phil4bama
Just give him a mouth guard
Posted on 3/16/18 at 1:56 pm to GenesChin
quote:
people don't just dismiss the stats as stupid
Its not the stats that we are dismissing as stupid.
Posted on 3/16/18 at 1:57 pm to GenesChin
quote:
GenesChin
You’ve obviously thought about this at far greater depth than I have. I was just frustrated because you’re initial wording seemed to discredit Hall and Smith’s performance. I appreciate your contributions to the thread and the way you calmly defend your stance
Posted on 3/16/18 at 2:09 pm to dplo
Lipscomb is gonna give UNC a game. They can shoott.
This post was edited on 3/16/18 at 2:11 pm
Posted on 3/16/18 at 2:11 pm to mistaken4193
High octane
Posted on 3/16/18 at 2:13 pm to biggsc
I mean they hung right there with Us and Tennessee for 30-35 mins
Posted on 3/16/18 at 2:14 pm to dplo
quote:
I was just frustrated because you’re initial wording seemed to discredit Hall and Smith’s performance
Ya, I get where you are coming from, no offense taken on my part
I'd also point out that poss% is important for the opposite type of argument as well. W/o Poss% Tremont Waters (110.8) has a slight edge on Collin Sexton (110.3). If you don't give poss%, you easily could misinterpret it as LSU's star Waters has a equal/slightly more impressive efficiency profile. Sexton though does this on 32.7% poss% copmared to 25.7% for Waters, clearly indicating that Sexton has a bigger impact and can be more efficient at higher volume
Additionally, I'd add that when you have ultra-efficient games with low poss%, it usually is an indication of great set up assists to find wide open man or putbacks on rebounds. So it is important to give other players credit they deserve for making those assists
quote:
Typically that would suggest their teammates put them in advantageous matchups/situations
So when looking up the stats, an astounding 63.3% of FGs were assisted FGs by Bama, well above their season average of 51% (#206 natl)
63.3% would be a top 5 assisted fg % nationally
This post was edited on 3/16/18 at 2:18 pm
Posted on 3/16/18 at 2:18 pm to mistaken4193
quote:
I mean they hung right there with Us and Tennessee for 30-35 mins
You played UNC?
Posted on 3/16/18 at 2:19 pm to GenesChin
Lipscomb
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