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re: *ClusterF*** of the Day* Moment of silence please. 33 years ago.
Posted on 1/26/16 at 10:33 am to cardboardboxer
Posted on 1/26/16 at 10:33 am to cardboardboxer
quote:
Bama - 1970
USC - 1925
Michigan - 1890
Ohio St - At least 1956
Nebraska - 1891
Texas - 1969
Notre Dame - at least 1953
I mean, if you think that the situation at Alabama (or any SEC school) is in anyway similar to the situations at USC, Ohio State, Michigan, Nebraska and Notre Dame......then I don't really know what to tell you.
Bryant started recruiting black kids in the mid/late-1960's but had zero luck. Kids didn't want anything to do with it.
They weren't trend setters, and they did do it to stay competitive, but they weren't drug kicking and screaming. They started doing it relatively at the same time other schools in the Deep South started doing it.
1
Posted on 1/26/16 at 10:36 am to cardboardboxer
quote:The man absolutely owned LSU/ Tiger Stadium for his entire career. It was rumored around the state that he once called Coach McClendon and asked if he could use Tiger Stadium for some Alabama home gams when LSU was playing away.
Before we get to that point let me remind everyone he was a racist abusive drunk whose main talent was to be the biggest and most overbearing a-hole on the field. In the modern era he would not be a college coach (as any respectable program would have fired him for his antics) but he would be an ambulance chaser as that is the last line of work that tolerates that level of assholery.
Posted on 1/26/16 at 10:42 am to Cheeky Fellow
quote:
I mean, if you think that the situation at Alabama (or any SEC school) is in anyway similar to the situations at USC, Ohio State, Michigan, Nebraska and Notre Dame......then I don't really know what to tell you.
I don't, I get that Bama and the entire south had a stigma back then. Hell so did Texas, as fans of the University of Texas loved to brag how it won the last "all white" national title.
With that said, I refuse to believe that Bear recruited players because of his own opinions on race or because he was trying to be some sort of role model for other SEC programs despite whatever mythos he has at Bama. As you say:
quote:
they did do it to stay competitive...They started doing it relatively at the same time other schools in the Deep South started doing it.
Which equals no fricking props from me. His whole song and dance of how he "tried really hard for a long time but no one at Bama let him" is what we call revisionist history. He started coming out with that crap late in his career to preserve his legacy once he figured out the cultural winds were blowing hard in the other direction.
Maybe I went too far outright calling him racist, but the mythology that he was some sort of trendsetter on race is bullshite too.
Posted on 1/26/16 at 10:43 am to cardboardboxer
I've never said he was a trendsetter. He wasn't a trendsetter with anything, but to say he didn't even start recruiting black kids until 1970 or that he just did it so that he didn't get left behind or because of a lawsuit is just asinine. He always wanted to sign black kids, he even wanted to do it when he was at Kentucky. At Alabama, he didn't think it would have been a good environment for them until the mid 60's. That's when he started recruiting them. He just wasn't able to sign any until 1969 or 70. He did have some black walk-ons in the mid 60's, I think. There was a group of about 5 that asked if they could and he let them, they just didn't last long. Even when he thought the environment for them was wrong, he still helped them get scholarships to other schools.
Posted on 1/26/16 at 10:45 am to coachcrisp
Oh yay another mouth breathing Bama fan that assumes I am a LSU fan just because I root for the Saints.
Yall are the ONLY fricking fanbase that CONSISTENTLY thinks I am a LSU fan on this forum. I don't get it, I post a lot and BOTH my sig and my avatar are A&M related.
Yall better thank God there isn't an IQ test to be a Bama fan or half of the flock would be culled. The sidewalk would be very empty for sure.
Yall are the ONLY fricking fanbase that CONSISTENTLY thinks I am a LSU fan on this forum. I don't get it, I post a lot and BOTH my sig and my avatar are A&M related.
Yall better thank God there isn't an IQ test to be a Bama fan or half of the flock would be culled. The sidewalk would be very empty for sure.
Posted on 1/26/16 at 10:45 am to cardboardboxer
quote:
With that said, I refuse to believe that Bear recruited players because of his own opinions on race or because he was trying to be some sort of role model for other SEC programs despite whatever mythos he has at Bama.
Like I said in a post above, I think that the right thing and the self-interest thing happened to arrive at around the same moment, and Bryant took advantage of it.
I don't think he did it purely out of the good of his heart, but I also think he saw it as a good thing and was happy for reasons other than winning games that Alabama was able to move forward. Ex-players, coaches and others who talk about his feelings then confirm that fact.
quote:
His whole song and dance of how he "tried really hard for a long time but no one at Bama let him" is what we call revisionist history. He started coming out with that crap late in his career to preserve his legacy once he figured out the cultural winds were blowing hard in the other direction.
Eh, I think he did try. Obviously he didn't make it his #1 goal, but I think, again, according to those around him (players, coaches, etc), it was something that he wanted to accomplish. Does he deserve the Nobel Peace Prize for thinking it was time to integrate? No, but I don't think it is fair to act like everything he did was purely for self gain. Like I said, two separate things intersected.
quote:
Maybe I went too far outright calling him racist
Maybe? Yea, more than maybe.
Posted on 1/26/16 at 10:47 am to cardboardboxer
Bottom line is that he was pretty damn far from being a racist. Hell, he was a dirt poor farmer from Arkansas and a lot of his friends growing up were black. If he was racist at all, you wouldn't have guys like Sylvester Croom standing up for him 40 years later.
Posted on 1/26/16 at 10:48 am to pvilleguru
quote:
If he was racist at all, you wouldn't have guys like Sylvester Croom standing up for him 40 years later.
Yea, Bryant had plenty of personal faults, but being a racist ain't one of them.
Posted on 1/26/16 at 10:49 am to GIbson05
No offense to Nick, but Bryant is still the greatest.
The "racist" thing is just stupid. He tried to recruit blacks at UK but it didn't work out. He wasn't the first to have blacks at Alabama- Kentucky and then Tennessee and Miss State had varsity blacks before him. But starting with his '71 squad he started playing blacks and recruiting more and more.
He got caught cheating and was penalized at A&M. I've heard the 'cheater' stuff for years but I've never actually seen or heard any particular incidences. He just went out and kicked your rear and shook your hand and told you he admired your effort.
The best.
The "racist" thing is just stupid. He tried to recruit blacks at UK but it didn't work out. He wasn't the first to have blacks at Alabama- Kentucky and then Tennessee and Miss State had varsity blacks before him. But starting with his '71 squad he started playing blacks and recruiting more and more.
He got caught cheating and was penalized at A&M. I've heard the 'cheater' stuff for years but I've never actually seen or heard any particular incidences. He just went out and kicked your rear and shook your hand and told you he admired your effort.
The best.
Posted on 1/26/16 at 10:52 am to Cheeky Fellow
quote:
Ex-players, coaches and others who talk about his feelings then confirm that fact.
Aka people caught up in the mythos. Show me proof he was recruiting black players at Kentucky (aka NOT a source from someone connected to Bama) and I will change my tune.
quote:
Obviously he didn't make it his #1 goal, but I think, again, according to those around him (players, coaches, etc), it was something that he wanted to accomplish.
Because...wait for it...he wanted his team to be the best at FOOTBALL and it was made clear elsewhere that the only way to do that was an inclusive team.
Which is fine, he was a football coach. I don't expect Nick Saban to lead the charge on gay rights. With that said, if some current Bama player decades later is discovered to be gay I WILL call bullshite if Nick tries to pretend he knew all along and he wanted to help the cause "way back when." That would be revisionist history.
quote:
Maybe? Yea, more than maybe.
Fine, I went to far. I apologize.
Hell to me that wasn't even the most controversial thing I posted. The fact that none of yall dispute my point that his success hinged on him being a control freak a-hole who would be considered abusive in the modern era is very telling.
Posted on 1/26/16 at 10:54 am to cardboardboxer
quote:
Aka people caught up in the mythos.
Wilbur Jackson, Sly Croom, Ozzie Newsome, etc, are telling inaccurate stories because they are caught up in the mythos?
Really?
This post was edited on 1/26/16 at 10:55 am
Posted on 1/26/16 at 10:54 am to cardboardboxer
quote:You ain't got a clue, pal. Coach Bryant would have recruited and signed a Martian if he could win with it. In the Sports Illustrated article that he sat for, he stated how badly he wanted to recruit blacks because white kids had basically gotten soft and would go back home to mama and daddy if you pushed them too hard, whereas blacks had nothing to really go back to (much like himself and the others during his playing days). Of all the black players/coaches that came under him, find one person who called him a racist...you won't because he treated them all alike and they loved him for it.
Which equals no fricking props from me. His whole song and dance of how he "tried really hard for a long time but no one at Bama let him" is what we call revisionist history. He started coming out with that crap late in his career to preserve his legacy once he figured out the cultural winds were blowing hard in the other direction.
Maybe I went too far outright calling him racist, but the mythology that he was some sort of trendsetter on race is bullshite too.
Posted on 1/26/16 at 10:55 am to pvilleguru
quote:
he even wanted to do it when he was at Kentucky.
Prove it and I am happy to eat crow all day. In my opinion he was an opportunist that reshaped history after the fact to ensure his legacy.
People (black or white) related to Bama defend him because he was SUCCESSFUL. Same reason Arky fans defend the piece of shite that is Bill Clinton.
Posted on 1/26/16 at 10:56 am to coachcrisp
quote:
whereas blacks had nothing to really go back to
Sounds like a racist comment to me.
Posted on 1/26/16 at 10:57 am to cardboardboxer
quote:
Sounds like a racist comment to me.
Sounds like a comment from a guy who grew up with Depression era dirt farmers and felt more connection with poor black kids from the Black Belt than middle and upper class white kids from the Birmingham and Montgomery country clubs.
This post was edited on 1/26/16 at 10:59 am
Posted on 1/26/16 at 10:58 am to cardboardboxer
quote:
Yall are the ONLY fricking fanbase that CONSISTENTLY thinks I am a LSU fan on this forum. I don't get it, I post a lot and BOTH my sig and my avatar are A&M related.
Maybe it is because you are a complete congenital liar and a sorry little mom's-basement internet shite who knows absolutely nothing about Coach Bryant or the history of integration in the SEC.
What causes low-esteem boys to feel they must post complete lies about some great man or other? I suppose this cardboardboxer kid will now post horrible fantasies about Jesus, George Washington, and Winston Churchill next.
Look card-boy, I suggest this... you are such a big man, ... why don't you post some terrible things about Mohammad, or Allah and leave a note for ISIS about your location?
Better yet, why don't you read Bryant's book which was largely penned in the early 70s and see what he had to say? Oh never mind... card-boy is just another bitter representative of LSU which does not flatter the fan-base.
This post was edited on 1/26/16 at 11:01 am
Posted on 1/26/16 at 10:59 am to pvilleguru
quote:
At Alabama, he didn't think it would have been a good environment for them until the mid 60's.
It wasn't a good environment for the white players either baw
Posted on 1/26/16 at 10:59 am to cardboardboxer
quote:
The fact that none of yall dispute my point that his success hinged on him being a control freak a-hole who would be considered abusive in the modern era is very telling.
He was a lot like Saban, but he was usually nicer to the media.
Posted on 1/26/16 at 11:00 am to GIbson05
He's still the greatest ... but according to Paul Finebaum no one is putting flowers on his grave anylonger since Saban's arrival.
What does that even mean?
What does that even mean?
Posted on 1/26/16 at 11:01 am to Cheeky Fellow
quote:
Wilbur Jackson, Sly Croom, Ozzie Newsome, etc, are telling inaccurate stories because they are caught up in the mythos?
Maybe. I could see a reason for it.
What do they get out of trying to tear down the legacy of one of the most successful coaches of all time? A lot of grief from Bama fans that take all this way too seriously, that's what.
What do they get out of supporting Bear's version of his legacy? Well they get to hitch part of their personal brand to a very successful coach, plus they get the respect and admiration of Bama fans who want to believe.
The exact same thing happened in regards to Douglas MacArthur, no one back in the day wanted to call him out as the chickenshit egomaniac that he was. It took DECADES for the full truth to come out. Same thing will happen with Steve Jobs. Sometimes a cult of personality can override personal considerations.
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