| Favorite team: | Oklahoma  |
| Location: | Manchester, England |
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| Number of Posts: | 517 |
| Registered on: | 7/28/2021 |
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re: Chips are down: Is NIL regulation = socialism?
Posted by ouflak on 6/15/25 at 2:34 am
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The industry was fine until the government got involved and stopped allowing the NCAA to regulate itself.
But what is the point of having anti-trust laws, trade laws, labor laws, and the 13th Amendment, if the nation - after all of the struggles it went through to get those laws into place - allows organizations to simply regulate themself out from underneath them?
Does that make sense to you?
And was the 'industry' really that 'fine'? The corruption at all levels? The bagmen (who might be making a comeback... let's see....)? The gross exploitation? The undermining of academics? The rampant anti-competitive behavior, especially in the nastiest negative recruiting - even between schools with 'gentlemen's agreements', which itself is anti-competitive?
That rose-tinted glasses view of the grand old plantation is a wonderful image for reminiscent paintings I suppose. But I think it's fair to say that we should probably expect a slightly more progressive world view when it comes to modern law and economics.
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If they start paying them, then they are employees and they will be taxed and so on
The way this strange tax argument keeps getting thrown around, makes me wonder if some of you must be posting from an alternate universe where the tax laws are very different. In the reality I'm posting from, if you earn income (office job, trade job, independent contracting, NIL, lemonade stand, WHATEVER....) you will pay taxes on that income within the existing slate of state and federal laws and guidelines that are applicable.
This quirky awkard idea that taxes should be an excuse to not allow players to earn money is one of the most goofball notions I've ever heard of.
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IF Universities and Colleges decide they don't want to give scholarships or admission to professional athletes, they can stop.
And then what happens to NIL and pay for play??
In theory, nothing. But in practicality, all of the schools would have to agree with each other to do such a thing. You'd probably have better luck, and spend less effort, getting a successful manned mission to Mars completed within the next 12 months, than getting all of the schools to go along with this proposal. The Universities and Colleges are just far too cut-throat, cunning, and competitive to not find a variety of ways to undermine and loophole their way out of an arrangement like that, in many cases blatantly. And there's probably some gigantic nuclear Title IX minefields lying in wait....
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re: Chips are down: Is NIL regulation = socialism?
Posted by ouflak on 6/14/25 at 4:47 pm
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Price gouging
Inside trading
Monopoly laws
None of those laws limit how much money someone can make. A person could become a multi-billionare following each of those laws to the letter.
re: Chips are down: Is NIL regulation = socialism?
Posted by ouflak on 6/14/25 at 11:52 am
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Most of the universities are public and federally funded.
The NCAA is not.
The student athletes are attending the public institutions, not the NCAA.
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The athletic programs are not funded federally either.
They are part of the university. That's pretty much the end of it. Those laws of association are almost as old as the nation itself.
Hence the occassional proposals that the athletic departments be completely separated from the schools, thus allowing them to be private organizations and no longer being so beholden to the wide variety of state and federal regulations and laws that are allowing the athletes to practice any degree of economic freedom. Ofcourse even those proposals suggest that somehow some kind of union exists - which gets the same exemptions that Congress currently is giving the pro sports.
re: Chips are down: Is NIL regulation = socialism?
Posted by ouflak on 6/14/25 at 8:42 am
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Those are private organizations. They are completely and freely allowed to become union shops if they so choose.
Federally funded institutions are not private organizations and cannot compel anyone to agree to a collective bargaining agreement as a condition of participatioin or employment. A recent Supreme Court decision upheld this understanding.
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The NCAA is a private organization.
Most of the universities are public and federally funded.
re: I continue to be in awe of the Israelis.
Posted by ouflak on 6/14/25 at 8:36 am
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We need that kind of dedication here but in the form of Christian Nationalism.
Ofcourse if we had that equivalent level of Christian Nationalism in the U.S., there's a good chance that's eventually going to be bad news for Israel in the long run.
re: Chips are down: Is NIL regulation = socialism?
Posted by ouflak on 6/9/25 at 3:32 pm
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Did you say the same thing when they put salary caps in place for professional sports?
Those are private organizations. They are completely and freely allowed to become union shops if they so choose.
Federally funded institutions are not private organizations and cannot compel anyone to agree to a collective bargaining agreement as a condition of participatioin or employment. A recent Supreme Court decision upheld this understanding.
re: Chips are down: Is NIL regulation = socialism?
Posted by ouflak on 6/9/25 at 3:28 pm
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Rev share is different and can be capped and regulated.
No court has ever said that revenue sharing can be capped and regulated.
re: A move in the right direction for college football. Pay the athletes directly and make....
Posted by ouflak on 6/8/25 at 6:54 am
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Now as an employee or contractor there is a paper trail required for many people in this food chain.
If there is a paper trail, then all taxes will be paid. Period. The only way to escape that certainty is death, or being rich enough to afford a tax lawyer to loophole your way out of perhaps some of it. Hell even in death, there might be an estate tax involved.
This House settlement is trying to skirt around a lot of state and federal laws, and even a couple of Constitutional amendments. But I haven't heard of it attempting to make any of the money that will be changing hands somwhow federally non-taxable.
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I don't know if this is the absolute solution, but it's a tool to be used in slowing down the money drops because after all it is about the money.
Those bagmen could make a thousand drops of a million dollars each, all in U.S. pennies if they like. If indeed those transactions are recorded and traceable, then as long as the IRS gets its cut, they could care less about the amounts or how often.
re: A move in the right direction for college football. Pay the athletes directly and make....
Posted by ouflak on 6/8/25 at 4:43 am
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It has NEVER been illegal to do commercials or sell autographs. It was against the NCAA’s selectively enforced rules, but never illegal.
bullshite. Ask James Gatto, Merl Code, and Christian Dawkins.
Just for clarity here, Code and Dawkins were convicted of fraud, not for doing - or paying someone to do, autographs or commercials, which is ofcourse completely legal. Gatto was convicted of bribery, again not anything to do with commercials or autographs.
What's very strange about these cases is that the accused were not allowed to call in exonerating witnesses (athletic directors and coaches from the schools involved). Without the ability to mount a proper defense, their legal strategy had no hope.
re: A move in the right direction for college football. Pay the athletes directly and make....
Posted by ouflak on 6/8/25 at 4:33 am
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NFL, NBA, MLB all have salary caps.
Those are private organizations that have decided to become union shops, and therefore have a collective bargaining agreement. This settlement is the first time U.S. history that such an agreement has simply been put into place for a collective of people, merely by the decision of a federal judge. And it's the first time that collective bargaining agreement has put into place that automaticaly includes those at federally funded instituions. There is no precedent for this. And if this stands as-is, then you can bet the big corporations will soon be scrambling to find a judge that will do the same for them - even in non-unionized industries, and just dispense with that 'union' nonsense altogether.
This would save them billions by being able to just have third party, that they themselves are paying, decide whatever pay scales makes them the most profits that year. We'll see....
re: A move in the right direction for college football. Pay the athletes directly and make....
Posted by ouflak on 6/7/25 at 2:32 pm
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This is how to cut out the bag men.
Right. So for the last 50+ years, the IRS has conveniently ignored the uncountable number of bag men. But now, they are really going to get serious about that. Oh boy! Here they suddenly come!
re: More questions than answers in House-v-NCAA settlement
Posted by ouflak on 6/7/25 at 10:41 am
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Are athletes employees?
No. They are declaring the student athleties not to be employees so the universities and conferences can (hopefully) continue to ignore existing labor and trade laws, and a few of the more unsettling implications of the 13th Amendment.
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How do they determine "fair" NIL value?
That's actually an easy one. If it's a young black man who is wanting to exercise the same financial freedom and potential as the old group of white men who are making the decision, the market value is to be the lowest number they can come up with, down to and including zero.
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Title IX?
I believe they are attempting to get the female athletes to sign away their protections under Title IX. Whether that is something that can actually be part of any contract in this nation, much less a condition to participate at a federally funded educational institution (the very inspiration of Title IX no less), is something that will be decided by the courts.
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Will cheerleaders, band members and others who contribute to the college-football experience be paid?
Nope, nor will their be any 3rd party deciding any limits to whatever money they make. Athletic directors and their staffs along with head coachess and their staffs, cheerleaders, band members - They can each and all make as much money in salaries and NIL as they like, no matter what capitilistic chaos ensues as a result.
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Collective bargaining from a player's union?
Obsolete now. Just get federal judge to sign off on it and there's your collective bargaining agreement. What's more, now you can apply a collective bargaining agreement across-the-board to federally funded institutions - something that was previously not only illegal, but completely un-American.
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Do individual states have legal authority to determine compensation?
There are a wide variety of consistent labor, trade, and anti-trust laws at the state and federal level, as well as two constitutional amendments, that are all hopefully being circumvented with this settlement. So, yes. But the working assumption is that conferences will be able to strong arm the universities into violationg those laws with the threat of expulsion and/or loss of competition.
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Can player contracts be incentive-based?
I believe the settlement specifically states that this cannot be the case. Someone might have to go through and confirm. I've heard this, but not actually seen that wording itself or seen anybody provide any credible links to back that up. Kinda sure that's no.
quote:
Can players be traded during the season?
The ability (freedom) of students to transfer, whether student athletes or not, has already been determined in another couple of recent court cases. That is not being challenged with this settlement and there doesn't appear to be any attempt here to openly circumvent those rulings that I'm aware of. So presumably, no.
Edit: I left your eligibility question unanswered because I didn't quite understand what you were asking and didn't want to guess.
re: A move in the right direction for college football. Pay the athletes directly and make....
Posted by ouflak on 6/7/25 at 10:11 am
quote:
Why are you against choice?
I think a lot of people are underestimating the incredible potential represented if this settlement is actually successfully applied. What's to stop corporations from banning together and getting a judge to sign off on a 'settlemen't that limits the pay of your career field and limits your pay based on some 3rd party estimate of your market value (not based on for exampmle, performance) - a third party that is being paid by the corporations? They would be doing this in order to keep the salaries reasonable, keep the market competitive for the various corporations involved, and prevent the chaos of capitalism - noble reasons ofcourse.
If this all works, implementation of this across industries could literally save billions to even trillions of dollars in employment expenses annually for corporations in America. I guess on one up side to all of that, you would no longer need labor unions. All you need is a federal judge and perhaps a half dozen people who work in your field to 'represent your class', and the deal is done.
re: Name that movie from one screen shot, edit some shot might be NSFW
Posted by ouflak on 6/6/25 at 1:43 pm
Mad Max: Road Warrior?
re: Name that movie from one screen shot, edit some shot might be NSFW
Posted by ouflak on 6/6/25 at 1:38 pm
The Cabin Boy?
re: Name that movie from one screen shot, edit some shot might be NSFW
Posted by ouflak on 6/3/25 at 2:02 pm
Losin' It. Had a very young Shelly Long in it.
re: Woman shot for not stopping at CIA security gate
Posted by ouflak on 5/22/25 at 1:56 pm
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Marxist pro-Hamas
Isn't this a contradiction?
re: Setting the record straight on Mizzou and the Big 10
Posted by ouflak on 5/13/25 at 1:21 am
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Big10 offered junior membership money for a certain number of years (Nebraska took junior money).
Mizzou picked the SEC full money option.
Now that makes sense and is plausible. Everybody knows that the MU was pining for the B1G. There may have even been some unofficial 'negotiations'. Nebraska was willing to blush, swallow its pride, and lift up their skirt. Missouri wasn't.
And then the SEC invite came....
re: A Minecraft Movie - RT 47% Critics, 87% Audience
Posted by ouflak on 5/11/25 at 1:17 pm
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That’s true of most kid movies though, that they are terrible, but kids like them. It doesn’t have to be that way.
I actually liked the Spongebob movies. I wasn't invited to the Minecraft one (she went with friends). But she was a lot more critical than I remember her ever being. That is borderline likely the last true kid's film she sees as she has discovered pre-teen/teen shows just recently. But some of those kids flicks weren't to shabby.
re: 2025 SEC Softball Tourney final game cancelled - Aggies and Sooners are Co-Champs!
Posted by ouflak on 5/10/25 at 3:47 pm
Well that sucks. What the hell good is this?
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